equita Cars exempt from clamping by council tax bailiffs

[david1960]

I hope someone can give me the advice I need.

 

 

I have a broken arrangement with a bailiff and I received a second visit today. Obviously I did not answer the door and he put an Attendance Notice to Take Control of Goods through the letterbox.

 

 

The debt is now for just under £1,100 and although my car is only worth about £200 I am concerned he will clamp it just for spite.

 

 

If he does can he still return to attempt to get the rest, or does he have one attempt only?

 

 

I am self employed and need the car to go to clients - does this make it exempt?

 

 

How often do these guys normally leave between visits?

 

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

 

 

 

David

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I hope someone can give me the advice I need.

 

 

I have a broken arrangement with a bailiff and I received a second visit today. Obviously I did not answer the door and he put an Attendance Notice to Take Control of Goods through the letterbox.

 

 

The debt is now for just under £1,100 and although my car is only worth about £200 I am concerned he will clamp it just for spite.

He can clamp and take it and sell it and come back again yes.

 

 

If he does can he still return to attempt to get the rest, or does he have one attempt only?

See above.

 

I am self employed and need the car to go to clients - does this make it exempt?

You would need to show a valid insurance certificate showing business use. Do you have that? If so and you are a sole trader then yes, its exempt. BUT, that doesnt mean it wont be taken and you will have to make a claim for goods.

 

How often do these guys normally leave between visits?

Anything between 1 minute and 12 months. As often as they like or as little as the claimant will let them do.

 

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

 

 

 

David

 

Hope that helps

[Bailiff Advice]

Grumpy....please dont tell me that a bailiff would remove and sell a vehicle that is only worth £200 !! That is just plain daft...the car would not even cover the £110 removal cost to say nothing of the storage fees ...

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

The problem is that they will. If its worth £200 to the bailiff, they will take it. Most would'nt, but that said, if the only way to gain a response is to clamp with a view to removing, then they will. If the debtor wont respond at all, and wont make any payment, then the only thing to do is to take and sell the car to get some funds.

Not only that, but we often get told you cant take a car cos its only worth £100 or £200 etc only to find it sells for more at auction.

 

To the OP, what car, what age, and what conditon?

Has it been clamped yet?

 

Just to clarify, the bailiff should ONLY be taking cars if they believe it will cover all costs AND pay of some or all of the debt. Big no no to take assets under the value of the removal costs.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

Just to clarify, the bailiff should ONLY be taking cars if they believe it will cover all costs AND pay of some or all of the debt. Big no no to take assets under the value of the removal costs.

 

And this is exactly my point. The removal fee alone is £110 and as we know, a vehicle cannot be sold until all the statutory notices have been properly served (which can take a week or so at least). Storage costs range wildly (as we are now seeing) and can range from as little as £12 per day to as high as £40 per day (complaints are ongoing in the background). Even with a car valued at £500 a bailiff would be hard pressed to cover these costs and then we have the 'pro rata' distribution of proceeds. there can be no way that any funds could be made available for the benefit of the creditor.

[david1960]

Thank you both.

 

 

Grumpy, insurance renewal schedule received this week describes use as "SDP and in connection with the policyholders business".

 

 

It's a 1999 BMW 318 with 90k and not properly serviced in 8 years, so I think £200 may be a bit generous. Surely, it would cost them more than £200 to get a key for it?

[david1960]

Just rechecked and car has a value of £135.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Insurance cert should be enough for the EA to accept exempt.

 

Yes, indeed, by the sounds of it its not worth taking. But that would be up to the bailiff and whether or not he thinks he can get more for it(that is not going to be needed though as you can prove exemption and that should be accepted outright).

 

For a 99 bmw, its cheap as chips to get keys. Modern bm is a very different story. They are often sold without keys which in some cases can reduce value or can, in certain cases increase value. Saw a van sold once with 2 ton of rubble in the back but bidders thought, or hoped, it was going to be builders tools.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

And this is exactly my point. The removal fee alone is £110 and as we know, a vehicle cannot be sold until all the statutory notices have been properly served (which can take a week or so at least). Storage costs range wildly (as we are now seeing) and can range from as little as £12 per day to as high as £40 per day (complaints are ongoing in the background). Even with a car valued at £500 a bailiff would be hard pressed to cover these costs and then we have the 'pro rata' distribution of proceeds. there can be no way that any funds could be made available for the benefit of the creditor.

 

A 500 car would end up with about £100 each way at least. That's better than nothing in the eyes of a claimant. Even if it does leave the debtor without a car.

[brassnecked]

A 500 car would end up with about £100 each way at least. That's better than nothing in the eyes of a claimant. Even if it does leave the debtor without a car.

And if the debtor has a job 30 - 40 miles away at unsocial hours with non existent public transport, as is often the case where I live, they will have to attach to his JSA once the sanction ends, or clean out the house after the car has failed to clear some of the debt. Would that second attendance to get the TV, and furniture not exempt attract a further £110 on top of the £110 for the car worth a ton?.

[david1960]

So what would the procedure be? Car gets clamped - I ring bailiff and send him a jpg of the insurance certificate. Bailiff releases clamp?

 

 

Insurance cert should be enough for the EA to accept exempt.

 

Yes, indeed, by the sounds of it its not worth taking. But that would be up to the bailiff and whether or not he thinks he can get more for it(that is not going to be needed though as you can prove exemption and that should be accepted outright).

 

For a 99 bmw, its cheap as chips to get keys. Modern bm is a very different story. They are often sold without keys which in some cases can reduce value or can, in certain cases increase value. Saw a van sold once with 2 ton of rubble in the back but bidders thought, or hoped, it was going to be builders tools.

[david1960]

The bailiff can call as many times as he likes but he can't get in.

 

 

All they would find in the boot at the moment is a spare that needs a new tyre. Storage Hunters, this is not!!!

[david1960]

I live in a mid terrace house. High fence one side, bushes the other. There is an unlocked gate to the garden on the side with bushes.

 

 

Is it trespass on my neighbours property if he tries entering this way to grab our Karcher.

[Bailiff Advice]

I live in a mid terrace house. High fence one side, bushes the other. There is an unlocked gate to the garden on the side with bushes.

 

 

Is it trespass on my neighbours property if he tries entering this way to grab our Karcher.

 

I think that you are worrying about something that is not likely to happen.

[david1960]

Thanks BA

[JoeyJoeC]

Just rechecked and car has a value of £135.

 

If you checked "we buy any car", they will offer you next to nothing for any car. £150 is the scrap value, so it's not worth less than that.

 

Checked autotrader, a 1999 BMW 318 with 185,000 miles was £475.

 

If you want to sell it for £200, let me know.

[lookinforinfo]

If you want to sell it for £200, let me know.

 

He cannot sell it at the moment as it is bound by the EAs.

[david1960]

He cannot sell it at the moment as it is bound by the EAs.

 

 

No it's not - but it's a great little car that always works perfectly, so long as I remember to give the battery a charge every 2 months.

 

 

Certainly not worth selling for what I would get and replace with a pile of rubbish.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

No it's not - but it's a great little car that always works perfectly, so long as I remember to give the battery a charge every 2 months.

 

 

Certainly not worth selling for what I would get and replace with a pile of rubbish.

 

I believe, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, that disposing of assets while subject to a money order in the form of a ccj/insolvency/proceeds warrant is a criminal offence. You cant sell the car even if you wanted to. Your goods are bound by the court until.such time as the judgement expires or payment I made

Grey area for me I afraid.

[david1960]

I believe, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, that disposing of assets while subject to a money order in the form of a ccj/insolvency/proceeds warrant is a criminal offence. You cant sell the car even if you wanted to. Your goods are bound by the court until.such time as the judgement expires or payment I made

Grey area for me I afraid.

 

 

Obviously, insolvency and where the goods are under a walking possession, but no mention of this on the docs received and surely not for a CCJ?

[caledfwlch]

I believe, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, that disposing of assets while subject to a money order in the form of a ccj/insolvency/proceeds warrant is a criminal offence. You cant sell the car even if you wanted to. Your goods are bound by the court until.such time as the judgement expires or payment I made

Grey area for me I afraid.

 

I don't know about it being a criminal offence, but the Control of Goods Act binds all goods/assets from the moment an enforcement warrant is issued. But actually seizing the goods is still subject to peaceful entry, - in the old days, a debtor of course, could sell everything in the house to a mate at the back door, whilst the EA was at the front door, but no longer. Which is why anyone who wants to sell and get the buyer to do a Stat Dec claiming ownership would need to do so before the Warrant is issued, otherwise, the sale is invalid and the EA is likely to ignore the worthless SD and seize goods anyway.

 

It is astonishing, esp watching the various tv shows, how many, usually small businessmen attempt to "pull one over" on the EA, but dont actually do any research on how to do so.

 

A couple of cases had the businessman claiming, and showing an invoice, that the goods had all been sold to a different company (again worthless now anyway, if sale took place after Warrant issued) so the EA of course asks to see the bank statement showing funds transfer to prove sale is genuine.

 

oops. No funds transfer.

[E Munch]

Just because a car is insured to be used for business purposes does not render the car exempt from the Schedule 12 process. Nor even does the fact that it is used for such purposes. The wording of the exemption has very definite requirements and the courts, in interpreting similar wording under the old similarly worded legislation, would often not agree with the claim a vehicle was exempt. See the Toseland Building Supplies v Bishop Groundworks case in which a JCB was ruled not exempt as although it may have been necessary for the business it was used occasionally be employees (ie not the debtor personally) and Thompson v Bertie 2007 in which it was decided a vehicle was not exempt just because a lecturer used it to travel to work.

 

 

All of the provisions of TCoG Regulation 4(1)(a) must apply for the vehicle to be exempt.

 

 

4.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to regulation 5, the following goods of the debtor are exempt goods—

(a)items or equipment (for example, tools, books, telephones, computer equipment and vehicles) which are necessary for use personally by the debtor in the debtor’s employment, business, trade, profession, study or education, except that in any case the aggregate value of the items or equipment to which this exemption is applied shall not exceed £1,350;

 

 

A vehicle must therefore be necessary, be only for use personally by the debtor and be used in their employment or business. Just because they use it to get to work and that to travel in another way might be irksome does not on it's own render it exempt.

[david1960]

Just to clarify, I am self employed and need it to travel to clients who I attempt to keep within a 30 mile radius but some are in remote locations.

 

 

For tax returns, I believe the split in 50/50 for business/personal use.

 

 

From how I read it, this fulfils the exemption.

[ploddertom]

If for instance you are a joiner then use of the vehicle to carry heavy or awkward shaped tools would be OK. However if a Rep carrying a few samples or similar then you may have a problem. Each case has to be taken on its own merits and whatever you do will have a bearing on the outcome.

[brassnecked]

If for instance you are a joiner then use of the vehicle to carry heavy or awkward shaped tools would be OK. However if a Rep carrying a few samples or similar then you may have a problem. Each case has to be taken on its own merits and whatever you do will have a bearing on the outcome.

So taking a couriers van would be a no no possibly, how can he carry 100 parcels on the bus?