Informing DWP of changes - when?

[worried33]

Nystagmite:

 

Sheer ignorance of some general practioners about DWATO, specially blue ones as mine is, beggars belief! None of which helps you.

 

Sorry, but if your doctor won't support your claim with a Med 3, it's find a different practice or back to jobseekers. Waste of time completing the ESA50. Not meaning to sound harsh but that's the reality unless anyone's got any better ideas.

 

Think Jobcentre have to pay you jobseekers, assuming you keep the agreement, if your doctor, or Atos, say fit for work. Praps Antone or Flumps will know for sure.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

I think if he fills in the ESA50 the WCA will still go ahead, but his payments will stop in the mean time when his current cert runs out.

 

I assume then if he passes the WCA for now his GP situation wont affect the benefit. Of course its possible a processing of the ESA50 and medical could take many weeks which wouldnt be practical without sick notes.

 

I also suggest to change GP, assuming you know yourself that you not well enough to work.

[Nystagmite]

Thanks. I'm a she btw.

[worried33]

sorry.

[Slatted]

Thanks. He knows I'm ill and it's extremely unlikely I'm going to find a job which fits my requirements.

 

There is no way I can take part in the work programme and he knows there's no alternative - I have to take part. I can't.

 

He claims it's because he doesn't want me to spending my life on benefits. Where have I ever said that's going to happen? I just need a few months off to sort myself out.

 

That GP does not even make sense as surely you would go onto JSA or ESA and both are benefits? and there is nothing to stop you looking for work whilst on ESA just without the added stressors of the Work Programme (at least whilst you are on assessment anyway). And how can an ESA50 apply if you have to go back on to JSA because you have no access to sick notes....?

[RaeUK]

My thoughts exactly, Slatted. The GP's stance just doesn't make sense to me. But then I am a simple person! So the GP acknowledges his/her patient is unfit for work but won't provide the necessary written confirmation. Doesn't the GP know that a) that is not his/her patients best interest and b) even in the Support group of ESA you are quite entitled to look for work that you feel able to do.

I'm so sorry you're having such problems Nystagmite ...

[speedfreek]

ESA is for anybody sick for over 2 weeks as anything over 2 weeks means you are intelligible for JSA. There is no maximum nor is there a minimum term. ESA claim will have to be withdrawn and a claim for JSA made.

 

So.....

 

I'd explain all this to the RNIB, Council and whoever else you can think of to get a lot of pressure applied to the work program provider.

 

You know my musings on this already.

 

Did your GP not even put extra conditions/adaptations for a return on your fit note?

 

If not I would maybe suggest getting the practice manager involved and explain the situation and how without the adaptations you will suffer and deteriorate. Remember if/when you go back to work you will need exactly the same adaptations that also apply now to the Work Program.

 

As for GPs it's like banging your head against a brick wall at the moment.

[antone]

But, well, if a GP signs a Med 3 as "may be fit subject to the following adjustments" the ESA department will accept that as a med cert stating the claimant is unfit for work. This is on the basis that technically you don't need to be completely incapable of working to claim ESA, you just need to have LCW - Limited Capability for Work.

 

I restate: if a GP issues you a Med 3, this is fine for ESA purposes as long as it states your incapacity, gives an end date (unless you have already been on ESA for six months, which I know Nystagmite has not) and is signed and stamped.

[Nystagmite]

Thanks. The fit note states my disabilities, adjustments needed to be made and the date as ongoing. I have been informed by an Audiologist that my hearing may return to normal; but he doesn't know when or if this will happen. (whereas everything else won't)

 

On the first note note, the date was July 2nd and I was signed off for a month. The second note is dated 25/7. Is that a problem?

[antone]

Thanks. The fit note states my disabilities, adjustments needed to be made and the date as ongoing. I have been informed by an Audiologist that my hearing may return to normal; but he doesn't know when or if this will happen. (whereas everything else won't)

 

On the first note note, the date was July 2nd and I was signed off for a month. The second note is dated 25/7. Is that a problem?

 

The only concern I have here is that a cert marked as "UFN" (Until Further Notice, or ongoing) may not be accepted at this stage of your claim. The rules used to be that UFN certs could not be accepted until a claimant had provided six months worth of dated certs. This could have changed, though, as it was a guidance/procedural thing and not actually stated in the legislation.

[Nystagmite]

Thank you. I'll phone and ask about this tomorrow.

[**Margaret**]

Nystagmite:

 

Completely missed the bit about reasonable adjustments. Sorry. Glad I suggested others may know more about it.

 

Assuming tomorrow goes alright, good luck with the ESA50.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Nystagmite:

 

An extra thought;

 

Seem to remember you're in a support group. Is there a leader/organiser who could advocate your case for adjustments should you find yourself back on jobseekers for any reason?

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[antone]

Nystagmite:

 

Completely missed the bit about reasonable adjustments. Sorry. Glad I suggested others may know more about it.

 

Assuming tomorrow goes alright, good luck with the ESA50.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

Ah, these things happen. You are correct when you state that a failure of the WCA has to be accepted as prima facie evidence of capability for work for JSA purposes. The problems tend to arise because many people kicked off ESA aren't able to agree to the Jobseekers Agreements they are required to sign when claiming JSA because of their health condition. This is a systemic failure, of course, but one that needs to be considered.

[antone]

 

On the first note note, the date was July 2nd and I was signed off for a month. The second note is dated 25/7. Is that a problem?

 

Meant to note, although it's not directly relevant to your case, that overlapping certs are not a problem. A cert signed 02/07/2012 for one calendar month will be accepted as valid until 01/08/2012. If you subsequently present a cert signed 25/07/2012 then all that happens is that the end date of the new cert will take precedence.

 

On the other hand, a gap in certs can cause problems. This is one of those areas where I could elaborate, but won't unless someone really wants me to as it could be tedious.

[Nystagmite]

Nystagmite:

 

An extra thought;

 

Seem to remember you're in a support group. Is there a leader/organiser who could advocate your case for adjustments should you find yourself back on jobseekers for any reason?

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

Thanks. This has been brought up. I've not heard from the branch manager yet as to whether she did contact my adviser. Thanks for the reminder.

[worried33]

I hope it works out ok for you Nystagmite that is good news your cert will be valid and just date been the issue.

[RaeUK]

I hope it works out ok for you Nystagmite that is good news your cert will be valid and just date been the issue.

 

Indeed. And thanks for the clarification, antone, it was quite interesting ...

[speedfreek]

Nysty as we discussed in another thread you are going to have to put your GP to one side and start putting your own support services in place. Make this your one and only goal in life as it will make things far less stressful.

 

The G in GP stands for general. So for specialist tailored support you can't really expect them to know what is available. All you can do is find it yourself and if you need a GPs help in a referral to it, convince them. Helping yourself in this way should also tell them that this problem is that serious for you and your health that they have to help.

 

I have engaged my own welfare rights service, charities and am now paying for my own counseling as my GP is absolutely hopeless. I have also found out there are a lot more things he can and should have done for me. I am just preparing to leave for a new practice as this one since it reorganised in 2010 has consistently failed me.

 

Your GP does not sound too bad. I just think when they are out of their depth you have to educate them to get the best out of them.

[Nystagmite]

Thanks. If it makes any difference, this particular GP is a trainee.

 

Spoke to someone at the job centre this morning who wasn't sure, neither was the person she spoke to. Phoned ESA and they said that my fit note is acceptable.

[**Margaret**]

Nystagmite:

Best get back to that ESA50 then.

Sincerely, Margaret.

[speedfreek]

If it makes any difference, this particular GP is a trainee.

 

I wonder? Talk to people, then if you have to, get your practice manager involved. Trust me demonstrating your needs backed up by evidence from other people and organisations can bring a pretty big change in how you are treated. It also has a bonus effect in your own understanding so you can play with things that might help.

 

It has taken me a bit of effort to get what I have in place and I am currently having to train my new counselor. She thought I was joking when I said I would like to learn how to do a handstand today. I even offered to buy her an ice cream too! Freud would have seriously investigated it and everybody knows he would never turn down a free ice cream.

 

All the stuff I have got in place will not fix me! It does allow me a bit of space from benefits, housing and my brain issues. Once you have the basics in place you can then go looking for more specialist support. It exists and the people handling your basics are the folks who will have a good idea of what is available beyond them. It also gives me the confidence to make big decisions and fight for the support/treatment I currently really need to have.

 

I know more about my issues and what treatment I need than my GP. It is not hard tbf. He has been an absolute disaster for me since my excellent nice lady doctor left. As soon as I figure out how it may effect my current referral I'm binning him as I think I've found somebody in a better position to help me.

[Nystagmite]

I received my DLA award last week. It mentioned something about communication (I said on DLA & ESA forms I have trouble) and something about needing help in unfamiliar places. Can I use my DLA award as evidence for ESA?

[hensteeth]

I received my DLA award last week. It mentioned something about communication (I said on DLA & ESA forms I have trouble) and something about needing help in unfamiliar places. Can I use my DLA award as evidence for ESA?

 

Highly unlikely that they will be interested in what the DLA report said. However, should you fail the ESA assessment, the DWP will and do use the ESA report to review your DLA entitlement

 

Simply put, no you can't use evidence for one benefit with another, but the DWP can if it means a possibility of being able to reduce the amount they pay you.

[Nystagmite]

What dla report?

[RaeUK]

The simple answer, to my mind, is yes. Of course. It is evidence of your disability or illnesses. I certainly intend to include details of my DLA award in the bumpf of evidence I'll be submitting to the DWP for ESA. It is true that the criteria of the benefits are different but all evidence that supports or highlights your illness and disability in any way helps form an overall picture for the DWP Decision Maker.

Any other evidence you can think of also has some merit. I have copies of a letter written by a consultant at Charing Cross Hospital. What I was seeing him for has absolutely nothing to do with my illness or ESA. However, he did note and comment on my physical state when writing to my GP. These side comments help to support my assertation of physical debilitation so it goes in the mix!