Unknowingly bought an unroadworthy car - 1 years MOT passed 1 month ago, please help!

[torison]

Hi there,

 

I purchased a used Alfa GT 1.9 JTD from a private seller advertising on autotrader around 1 month ago.

 

this was the advertisement posted:

 

M-JET 16v 3 DOOR GT COUPE, WITH FULL LEATHER INTERIOR , FULL SERVICE HISTORY ALL MANUALS 2 KEYS AND PLENTY OF RECIEPTS, RECENT CLUTCH AND SERVICE,REAR SPRING AND DROP LINKS, 6 SPEED MANUAL 150 bhp POWER AND ECONOMY ALL UNDER ONE HOOD.TWIN TAIL PIPE EXHAUST,SOUGHT AFTER STYLISH ITALIAN THOROUGH-BRED COUPE ALL IN COLOUR CODED AZZURE, BLUE, Next MOT due 04/09/2015, Tax expires 31/01/2015, Full service history, Electric windows, Air conditioning, Parking aid, CD player, Leather trim, Height adjustable driver's seat, Folding rear seats, Sports seats, Metallic paint, Alloy wheels, Power steering, Cruise control, Central locking, Alarm, Immobiliser, Driver's airbags, Side airbags, Passenger airbags. 5 seats, £1,999

 

the private seller took me for a drive and I had a short test drive in it. everything seemed fine during the drive. the HPI check was clear and he showed me the totally clear MOT certificate issued the week before.

 

I bought the car and have been using it for driving to work etc. i noticed a few minor issues immediately (as you would expect from a used car) but last week the whole car began to judder. i took the car in to my local specialist garage who said that the car should not have passed its MOT test and would have failed on at least 5 separate points as well as several advisories. the MOT certificate I was provided was completely clear.

 

The certificate is legitimate (i check on the mot check website) but the results are clearly falsified.

 

I am unsure what to do.

 

I cant afford to buy another car without some kind of refund. what rights do i have and what would your advice be moving forward.

 

if i report the car to VOSA my worry is i will be left without a drivable car - they will fail the MOT and i assume will get no refund to my outlay.

 

i don't want to sell the car on as i don't want the same thing to happy to another person, and i don't want to scrap the car as i will lose most of the money i have just spent.

 

if I ring the private seller he will tell me to sling my hook "buyer beware, sold as seen" etc

 

thanks for any help and advice you can give.

 

Torison

[Billy's mate]

You could ask your M.O.T man to give you a list of the definite failure points and what he considered were advisories. Although an M.O.T is only valid at the time that the vehicle was tested, these faults were probably there at the time of the test. Contact the seller with your findings and see if he's prepared to come to an arrangement that us acceptable to you. If not, toll him that you will be contacting VOSA regarding the dodgy M.O.T and asking them to investigate the test station. You could also contact the test station yourself and tell them that you're prepared to go to VOSA. This may well frighten them into buying the car off you themselves.

[oddjobbob]

+1 to the above except that advisories don't count, they are merely someone's opinion.

 

 

against this is the fact that an MOT is regarded as a snapshot of the car's condition on the day of the test only, apart from corrosion near to a structural area where the limit is I think 3 months.

 

 

The reason for MOTs being only a snapshot 'on the day' is that who is to say you didn't drive into a huge pothole and snap a spring etc? (not saying you did btw!)

 

 

So you may struggle, but worth trying to do something.

 

 

As an aside, when I was in the trade, I had heard of a [problem] where the car was brought back to you a few days later with claims that the MOT was bent because the tyres were bald.

 

 

I asked the MOT station to make a note of the tyre brands on the cars I sold after this, and, sure enough it happened to me... whereupon I requested that they put it in writing. I was then able to show that the tyres on the car at time of MOT were 'XYX 205/55 16' and NOT the worn out racing slicks the customer had put on in order to get some money out of me! a threat to report them to the police for fraud together with their written complaint (couldn't deny it!) usually resulted in them running away as fast as they could!

[Conniff]

Is your local specialist garage also an MoT testing center ?

 

 

What are the 5 points he considered it would not have passed on ?

[torison]

Hi there, thanks for all your replies.

the alfa specialist i took the car too also carries out MOTs,

 

the failures he noted were

near side upper wishbones very very loose/worn - wheel dangerously 'floating' as he put it, moving very easily

the center exhaust bracket was broken?

the offside rear suspension spring had come of the top of the mount and was resting on the chassis, the spring itsself was the wrong type and it was badly fitted

the offside inner driveshaft boot was split

the headlight motor had failed

and the engine/gearbox mountings were very loose and poorly fitted

 

there were numerous other advisory issues.

 

bear in mind that the MOT i was provided from 1 week before purchase was totally clear, no advisories at all.

 

I think my first point of call will be to contact the seller directly. I will probably record the call if possible and keep it as calm as I can on my side.

[Conniff]

Yes, always record, don't call him until you can.

 

 

the offside rear suspension spring had come of the top of the mount and was resting on the chassis, the spring itsself was the wrong type and it was badly fitted

I think that will be your main point of complaint. It is different to the nearside ?

If it is a different spring on each side, then that would class the car as dangerous. If the seller tells you where to go, you will need a proper written report from your garage so you can take it further.

 

 

You say you took it to a specialist, did you actually have an MoT done or just a check ?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Conniff

[torison]

just a check... i could feel something was wrong with the car so i thought i would get them to look over it and they came back with this huge list of issues. the guy at the alfa garage is happy to write a report if required, i spoke with him on the phone this afternoon.

 

so first port of call is to ring the seller and calmly explain i would like a refund?

 

then the dodgy mot garage ?

 

then calling VOSA?

 

thanks

[Conniff]

Keep us up to speed t, this will probably interest a lot of people.

[Raykay]

so first port of call is to ring the seller and calmly explain i would like a refund?

 

then the dodgy mot garage ?

 

then calling VOSA?

 

 

 

 

 

Speak to the DVSA (used to be VOSA) first, in case they want to investigate.

[torison]

im just worried that i will end up with nothing if i contact them first Raykay. i would rather negotiate a refund or free fix without having to take it further.

if the DVSA agree the car is unroadworthy i am stuck without transport to get to work and a big loss to my bank balance that i cant afford right now (not that theres ever a good time to throwaway money).

[Raykay]

im just worried that i will end up with nothing if i contact them first Raykay. i would rather negotiate a refund or free fix without having to take it further.

if the DVSA agree the car is unroadworthy i am stuck without transport to get to work and a big loss to my bank balance that i cant afford right now (not that theres ever a good time to throwaway money).

 

 

 

The problem with a private sale is that the seller could just say 'I knew nothing about that, as far as I knew, everything was fine', and you have no recourse, it is not like buying from the trade where you have some protection.

 

 

If things are as bad as you say, DVSA may want to investigate the MOT station that passed the car, before you alert them.

[Conniff]

Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. The Sale of Goods Act protects purchasers, where the goods are sold by description, there is an implied term that the goods will correspond to that description.

 

 

Private goods are sold by description.

[oddjobbob]

''M-JET 16v 3 DOOR GT COUPE, WITH FULL LEATHER INTERIOR , FULL SERVICE HISTORY ALL MANUALS 2 KEYS AND PLENTY OF RECIEPTS, RECENT CLUTCH AND SERVICE,REAR SPRING AND DROP LINKS, 6 SPEED MANUAL 150 bhp POWER AND ECONOMY ALL UNDER ONE HOOD.TWIN TAIL PIPE EXHAUST,SOUGHT AFTER STYLISH ITALIAN THOROUGH-BRED COUPE ALL IN COLOUR CODED AZZURE, BLUE, Next MOT due 04/09/2015, Tax expires 31/01/2015, Full service history, Electric windows, Air conditioning, Parking aid, CD player, Leather trim, Height adjustable driver's seat, Folding rear seats, Sports seats, Metallic paint, Alloy wheels, Power steering, Cruise control, Central locking, Alarm, Immobiliser, Driver's airbags, Side airbags, Passenger airbags. 5 seats, £1,999''

 

 

Can't see any outright lies in there though TBQH.

 

 

Notwithstanding that there is little doubt that the seller was aware...the problem is that a private seller is deemed to have insufficient mechanical knowledge to be able to state the mechanical condition of a car.

 

 

Your best bet is to try and force the sellers hand by doing what you can with VOSA (not VOSA now but you know what I mean) and getting the MOT station to put it largely in the condition they said it was a month ago, at the same time getting any contribution you can from the seller.

[Conniff]

torsion, how long had the seller owned the car ??

 

 

And did he say why he was selling it ??

[Conniff]

"Can't see any outright lies in there though TBQH."

 

 

Exactly, but he knew there were the suspension bits from a some other vehicle and he didn't say so, so it don't meet the description.

[torison]

he said he was buying another car and was going to pick it up that weekend. although he already had another alfa GT in the drive way when i went to see the car. once the V5C came back the previous registered keeper IS NOT the seller. this is quite confusing, and suggests he never registered the vehicle.

 

i have tried ringing the seller but the phone is either turned off or he refuses to pick up.

 

i think he knew exactly what he was doing, but theres no way to prove it.

 

if he refuses to contact me is the next step VOSA? im just so worried that i will contact them they will agree the car is unroadworthy and i will be left with no transport. yes the MOT garage will get a fine, nothing will happen to the seller and i will be left out of pocket... can VOSA force the garage to fix the car?

[Conniff]

You are on a time limit with Vosa, so do that Monday, you might have already exceeded the complaint time limit.

[torison]

thanks conniff, ill update you all monday

[Conniff]