ltd company debt signed by me as guarantor - shoesmiths chasing

[99Problems]

Hi everyone

 

Long time lurker,

have successfully used advice from these forums in the past,

so a big thank you to everyone taking time out of their busy lives to help all of us who are unfamiliar with how to deal with such agencies.

 

Back in 2010 I fell into debt due to a business failure.

I have a few creditors and all but one have been very reasonable.

Following advice from the then CCCS I entered into agreed payment arrangements with my creditors

and this has been working fine for both parties involved.

 

I recently received a letter from Shoosmiths with regard to the Natwest debt.

It was my understanding that Shoosmiths were debt collectors who had purchased the debt from Natwest

as I am paying Shoosmiths directly, and have been for quite some time.

 

They are asking quite aggressively for me to fill out a pretty invasive form which includes the expected

income and expenditure but also lots of other personal details

that I wouldn't normally pass on to anyone, such as employer details, asset details etc etc.

 

My question is,

what information am I bound by law to pass to them?

I feel that a basic income and expenditure budget sheet should do,

but they are threatening court action if they don't get everything they want.

 

I am furthermore uneasy about providing personal information after having read of their failings by

sending a lot of debtors information to one debtor they were pursuing.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[unclebulgaria67]

Shoosmiths are Solicitors/debt collectors.

 

No you don't have to complete their form. Most people just send back a basic income/expenditure sheet.

 

They are asking for this form, as they want info to help decide whether they want to go to court to seek a way to secure the debt e.g charging order on property, increased payment with attachment to earnings if necessary.

[dx100uk]

what type of NatWest debt please

 

 

dx

[99Problems]

Hi guys

Many thanks for your quick response

 

dx, the debt is a claim on a personal guarantee from a business loan/overdraft, which was stuck to a personal bank account (everything was with Natwest)

[dx100uk]

a claim?

 

 

was this a ltd co or sole trader.

 

 

you took this loan out or just acted as guarantor?

 

 

dx

 

 

 

 

dx

[99Problems]

It was a limited company

 

when taking the loan the bank made me sign a guarantee form which they produced again when claiming the money owing from me personally.

 

I will have to dig out all the original documentation for accuracy but thinking back this covered mostly a loan, some overdraft and a chargecard.

[99Problems]

Hi back again

 

I have gone through a mountain of documentation,

it looks like they have two gurarntees they are claiming on, these were introduced on a loan and an overdraft for the company.

Oddly this debt does not appear on my credit report.

 

I am going to have to issue an income and expenditure report, as there is a time limit on that.

This has not yet gone to court as an agreement was reached through CCCS but they seem to be wanting more.

 

I have done a fair bit of searching on the site and

would like to know exactly what details I must provide on an income and expenditure report.

Shoes are asking for details of assets and details of other creditors. My question being how much detail am I required to give?

 

many thanks again for all the advice and the humorous post title changes

 

One final thing, before I forget, why are they accepting current payments without prejudice even though I had an existing accepted arrangement by Nasties to accept a monthly amount?, which was done though Shoesms.

Edited October 12, 2014 by 99Problems

[dx100uk]

stuff their timelimits

 

they are not bailiffs and have no legal powers.

 

if NW have sold this debt

then theres a very good reason

find it.

 

if a big multi national company

sell 2 big debts because they are not confident in doing court

 

what does that tell you about these supposed debts.

 

who are shoe's client

 

dx

[99Problems]

NW are Shoes client, shoes are collecting the money though, but they state they are acting as the solicitor

 

and as we have seen from other threads, Shoes are only too happy to go to court whether they have enough evidence or not.

Ramjet springs to mind.

[dx100uk]

if NW are their client you've no real need to deal with them at all.

 

 

talk to the organ grinder not the monkey.

 

 

dx

[99Problems]

Hi dx

I don't understand what you mean, they have shoes acting as their agents with all correspondence going through them, why would I try to contact NW?

Thanks again for your continuing assistance.

 

Cheers

99

[dx100uk]

is this debt unsercued?

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

did the bank insist you take legal advice before signing the guarantee on it? If not, it might not be enforceable.

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?184465-Personal-Guarantee-for-Business-Overdraft-unsecrued

[99Problems]

Hi dx

 

Yes unsecured, there were two forms to sign, one with the guarantee stating legal advice is recommended, and another that was a legal waiver.

will now get down to reading your link

 

Cheers

[dx100uk]

pers I think you got spoofed by paying shoe's

 

 

they can do nothing to you

only the OC [NW] can take legal action

 

 

I assume you simply took the letter as done

and fell for it and started paying them.

 

 

they'll be getting a commission on you doing that.

 

 

I was hoping one of the more knowledgeable ones would pop in by now

 

 

dx

[99Problems]

Interesting stuff because there are lots of threads showing shoes as NW's solicitors, so would they not be instructed to recover?

crossing fingers there is somewhere I can go on this, my situation is very similar to the link you shared dx.

[dx100uk]

shoes are a sols/dca for hire.

 

 

they are not inhouse to NW

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

were you paying NW through CCCS and it changed without your involvement?

 

 

dx

[99Problems]

I handled all the payments myself, looking back CCCS only handled my personal debt, the business closed after I started having problems.

The CCCS material Shoes will have received will be the initial Income and Expenditure, which has CCCS logos and details with it.

 

NW got Shoes involved very quickly, so there wasn't time to set up my own payments or an account to pay into since they closed the business account.

 

Reading through other threads, its not looking like I have much choice with the PA and the Legal Waiver.

[Ganymede]

pers I think you got spoofed by paying shoe's

 

 

they can do nothing to you

only the OC [NW] can take legal action

 

 

I assume you simply took the letter as done

and fell for it and started paying them.

 

 

they'll be getting a commission on you doing that.

 

 

I was hoping one of the more knowledgeable ones would pop in by now

 

 

dx

 

I'm sorry but that's just not true.

 

Shoosmiths are more than just a DCA and can issue Court proceedings on behalf of their client (NatWest) if they choose to.

 

They would have been granted authority to do so when being instructed and will have discretion/instructions to issue.

 

Saying Shoosmiths can do nothing is a bit misleading.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi everyone

 

Long time lurker,

have successfully used advice from these forums in the past,

so a big thank you to everyone taking time out of their busy lives to help all of us who are unfamiliar with how to deal with such agencies.

 

Back in 2010 I fell into debt due to a business failure.

I have a few creditors and all but one have been very reasonable.

Following advice from the then CCCS I entered into agreed payment arrangements with my creditors

and this has been working fine for both parties involved.

 

I recently received a letter from Shoosmiths with regard to the Natwest debt.

It was my understanding that Shoosmiths were debt collectors who had purchased the debt from Natwest

as I am paying Shoosmiths directly, and have been for quite some time.

 

They are asking quite aggressively for me to fill out a pretty invasive form which includes the expected

income and expenditure but also lots of other personal details

that I wouldn't normally pass on to anyone, such as employer details, asset details etc etc.

 

My question is,

what information am I bound by law to pass to them?

I feel that a basic income and expenditure budget sheet should do,

but they are threatening court action if they don't get everything they want.

 

I am furthermore uneasy about providing personal information after having read of their failings by

sending a lot of debtors information to one debtor they were pursuing.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.[/quote

 

 

Hi, Shoosmiths are a firm of "solicitors" with a core business of debt collection and usually act on behalf of DCAs.

Do their communication state that they " are acting on behalf of" xxxxxxx?

As Shoosmiths are not debt purchasers I think they will be acting for NW.

 

 

You are under no obligation to provide any I&E data whatsoever to them

 

As you are already paying them you can simply reply that their communication has prompted you to check your finances and have concluded that you are paying all you can reasonably afford.

[99Problems]

Hi Brigadier

 

Many thanks for posting

my initial response was exactly that, I stated my situation was the same, and I would continue to pay the monthly amount.

 

Their response was that without a I&E they could not assess my financial situation and if I didn't complete one before a set deadline they would issue court proceedings.

 

Their I&E form does ask a lot of questions that other DCA's don't ask, and as far as I know they are acting for NW directly.

 

I am also a little confused, some advice says that DCA's etc won't go to court if you're making regular payments, others say they go to court anyway, what is the legal standing on this?

Edited October 13, 2014 by 99Problems

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brigadier

 

Many thanks for posting

my initial response was exactly that, I stated my situation was the same, and I would continue to pay the monthly amount.

 

Their response was that without a I&E they could not assess my financial situation and if I didn't complete one before a set deadline they would issue court proceedings.

 

Their I&E form does ask a lot of questions that other DCA's don't ask, and as far as I know they are acting for NW directly.

 

 

 

One has to wonder if Shoosmiths are actually acting on NWs explicit instructions or are they playing there own game here? (this has happened in the past).

 

 

If any data is supplied it should be a straight forward income - v- expenditure absolutely no bank statements or details of your employer etc.

[99Problems]

That is what I have provided

I have seen on these very forums how loosely they handle personal data, and mine will remain confidential until ordered otherwise by the proper authorities.

 

I was initially under the impression they were just a DCA but their letters do indicate they are acting on behalf of their client NW.