Brown attacks PM for trying to crack down on voting rights of Scottish MPs.

[Conniff]

This bloke was rubbish as a Prime Minister, and now he is telling the rest of us what to do.

 

He has hit out at David Cameron and accused him of being ‘unstatesmanlike’ in attempting to stop

Scottish MPs voting at Westminster, on only English issues, but he is happy with the extra powers

Scotland will receive to make their own laws without hindrance from the Parliament at Westminster.

(English MPs will not be able to vote on laws in Scotland that do not affect the rest of the

UK).

The former Prime Minister said the move could drive a ‘wedge’ between England and Scotland.

(I thought Salmonde and the referendum had already done that?) He says the Tory plan for

‘English votes for English laws’ would turn the Scots into second-class citizens because their Westminster

MPs would be downgraded. (you could say the same about Scottish MPs voting on Scottish only

laws as downgrading the rest of the UK MPs, what is good for one is good for another).

 

The three Westminster leaders promised to devolve more power to the Scottish parliament.

 

This anomaly whereby Scottish MPs can vote on English matters but English MPs have little or no say north

of the border is wrong. Brown criticised this approach. He said I fear for the health and unity of our country,

(make of that what you will, it just makes me laugh words are cheap).

He said Mr Cameron made an unstatesmanlike error when, he tried to rewrite his vow with a proposal for

restricting the rights of Scottish MPs to vote at Westminster’. (He wants his cake and eat it).

He adds: the morning after the referendum, allegations of foul play, broken promises and bad faith began,

with a wedge being driven between Scotland and England.

 

(I am still of the opinion that it would have been better for us all if they had got their independence,

this cr*p is going to carry on until they do).

 

Link

[Conniff]

I think maybe "This bloke was rubbish as a Prime Minister" is a bit of an understatement, I think probably the worse this country has ever had. He was certainly the most evasive liar ever to sit in parliament.

[unclebulgaria67]

Gordon was one of the best chancellors we have ever had and showed excellent leadership in stopping the collapse of the world banking system.

 

Westminster is a UK parliament and all MP's can vote on divisions that are called. It is only currently possible to restrict who can vote/take part in committee stages. England as the biggest part of the UK does have a major affect on other parts of the UK. So it can be argued that Scottish, Welsh and N.Irish MP's should have a say on some English legislation.

 

We are heading towards having seperate national parliaments and a federal parliament at Westminster. It is also possible for England to have regional government. But no doubt the political parties will use this to gain extra paid politicians and to serve their own political interests.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Gordon was one of the best chancellors we have ever had and showed excellent leadership in stopping the collapse of the world banking system.

 

Westminster is a UK parliament and all MP's can vote on divisions that are called. It is only currently possible to restrict who can vote/take part in committee stages. England as the biggest part of the UK does have a major affect on other parts of the UK. So it can be argued that Scottish, Welsh and N.Irish MP's should have a say on some English legislation.

 

We are heading towards having seperate national parliaments and a federal parliament at Westminster. It is also possible for England to have regional government. But no doubt the political parties will use this to gain extra paid politicians and to serve their own political interests.

 

 

 

Mc Broon was a total failure at everything he did and said!

 

 

Apparently he rarely shows up the House and does the square root of naff all for his constituency so who votes where and on what should not concern him.

[Conniff]

Mr (no more boom and bust) Broon was the worse chancellor any country could ever have had, remember he brought this country to it's knees, he practically bankrupted us, he made Wonga look really good and fair.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Conniff

[unclebulgaria67]

Mc Broon was a total failure at everything he did and said!

 

 

Apparently he rarely shows up the House and does the square root of naff all for his constituency so who votes where and on what should not concern him.

 

You cannot dispute that when Gordon led the G20, he was seen by quite a lot people as central to stopping a total collapse of the worlds financial system. In 100 years time, the history books will comment on his role and there will be very little mentioned about Cameron/Osborne.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/political-bailout-gordon-brown-saves-the-banks-and-himself-a-584124.html

 

Perhaps Gordon was in the right place at the right time. If it had been left to Obama or Sarkosy, I am not sure what would have happened. Osborne was suggesting in 2008 that Gordon should have allowed some UK banks to collapse and I would question what this would have led to.

[Conniff]

He was the leader of the world collapse, how can you say that he saved the world ?

[unclebulgaria67]

He was the leader of the world collapse, how can you say that he saved the world ?

 

The seeds of the world collapse started in about 1987. For about 20 years banks changed from being sober financial organisations to being partly casino banks, where they issued loads of lines of credit and gambled money. Both Labour and Tories turned a blind eye to what was going on, enjoying the tax revenues coming in, while doing very little to regulate.

 

I personally believe that what the banks were doing is criminal and I know that in the US, some have been jailed. There have also been problems with some of the bankers in London, who have been involved in criminality without too much action. UK banks based in the US have faced paying hundreds of millions in fines.

 

This was a massive failure of the banking industry and politicians for over 20 years. If you are going to blame Gordon Brown, you might as well blame all politicians in power in western countries between about 1987 and 2007.

[Conniff]

I can't blame anyone but Brown, he oversaw the collapse, he 'insisted' there would be no more bust, in fact he insisted practically ever PM questions. He just borrowed more and more and introduced more giveaways, things this country has never been able to afford.

[unclebulgaria67]

No more boom and bust was a stupid thing to say. I am sure he must regret saying this. It is not possible for a UK government party to control what is going on in the city of London, let alone have any slight control over what happens around the world. If you watched the recent BBC programme on financial traders, you will have seen how people make quick decisions on gambling with millions of pounds worth of money. It is probable that another financial collapse will happen in the next 20 years, which the government and regulators won't see coming.

 

Labour and Tories spending plans are not that different. The Tories have just announced £7 billion worth of tax cuts, for which they have not worked out how they can afford it. Meanwhile they have promised to spend more on the NHS and are committed to overseas aid spending of 0.7% of GDP. By 2018 the UK's national debt will amount to £1500 billion and will probably still be increasing, as it unlikely the deficit will be reduced to zero by 2018.

[Conniff]

The deficit problem is mainly down to benefits. They have been increased and increased and new ones introduced plus no limit on housing benefit. It was never designed to be like this, it was to keep people alive, especially the widows with children of WW2, but now people expect a full living wage from benefits, enough for luxuries. No one seems to want to cut their cloth according to their means any longer.

[caro]

The deficit problem is mainly down to benefits. They have been increased and increased and new ones introduced plus no limit on housing benefit. It was never designed to be like this, it was to keep people alive, especially the widows with children of WW2, but now people expect a full living wage from benefits, enough for luxuries. No one seems to want to cut their cloth according to their means any longer.

 

Lets not forget the problems of tax evasion and fraud. They don't need to cut their cloth according to their means, but are so greedy that they want to keep as much as possible for themselves, rather than contribute to support their country's economy.

 

http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

[Conniff]

I haven't forgotten them Caro, but I think an end to this is on the cards. To me there is no difference between Evasion and Avoidance.

[determindator]

I post the link again as not responding for me and maybe others in that format

 

http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

[unclebulgaria67]

If only we had a perfect world to live in ! A world where nobody had any reason to complain, where we loved our politicians and could live a peaceful life without any hassle from anyone.

 

If this was the case, we would not need to have CAG and could replace it with a hippie site where we would spread our love for the world.

 

In the meantime perhaps a neutral perspective on these issues. It is easy trying to blame one person for the worlds problems, but actually we are all to blame. We let banks politicians etc get away with dubious stuff and just moan about it. In most recent elections 30% of peope don't even bother to go out to vote.

[determindator]

I pray to God, I find it helps me:-D

[colin11]

Gordon Brown was a disaster for this country !!

 

he sold off our gold reserves for next to nothing, he hired an extra 750,000 public sector workers that were jobs for the boys, and he opened the borders to let everyone in

the last 2 he did to create millions of greatful labour voters that would keep him in power for a generation

 

in the end, he was so bad, that even they couldn't vote for him

[caro]

I post the link again as not responding for me and maybe others in that format

 

http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

 

Thanks termi.

[unclebulgaria67]

I pray to God, I find it helps me:-D

 

I pray to those people who pray to God, I find it helps me. Provided it is the right God of course !

 

For those that are interested in economics, debt etc, have a look at the world debt clock ( which you may have seen before).

 

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

 

UK debt is about £21k per person in the UK.

US debt is about £35k per person in the US.

Japanese debt works out at about £49k per person in Japan.

 

Another thing to be aware of is that most UK government debt ( about 70%) is owned by UK government BoE), UK Insurance companies etc. Only 30% of it, is actually foreign owned. So most of the interest that the UK government is paying on the nations debt, is coming back to the UK, over a period of time. So don't believe the really bad picture that is spun on UK debt, as other countries are in a far worse situation. Yes we need to make cuts to government spending and make sure tax is properly collected, but the UK is able to deal with the situation.

[Lawrence McGinty]

Gordon Brown was a disaster for this country !!

 

he sold off our gold reserves for next to nothing,

 

, and he opened the borders to let everyone in

 

Simply untrue.

 

The sale of gold by Brown raised about £7 billion, hardly next to nothing.

 

Also, reserves of bars of gold earns no interest, they just sit in a vault. Brown turned this into cash to invest for public services, a perfectly practical thing to do.

 

I would suggest that what Gordon sold off hardly compares to what assets Thatcher sold during her time and for which huge amount of the British public now struggle to pay to foreign owners.

 

Oh, and open borders are a consequence of being in the EU, not a policy adopted by Brown.

[Lawrence McGinty]

He was the leader of the world collapse, how can you say that he saved the world ?

 

Gordon Brown even convinced that great capitalist nation, the USofA, to embrace that pillar of socialism, nationalisation, in order to save their, and thus the world's, economy. A totally unthinkable thing to happen before the crash.

 

And it worked.

 

No mean feat.

[Lawrence McGinty]

The former Prime Minister said the move could drive a ‘wedge’ between England and Scotland.

He says the Tory plan for

‘English votes for English laws’ would turn the Scots into second-class citizens because their Westminster

MPs would be downgraded. (you could say the same about Scottish MPs voting on Scottish only

laws as downgrading the rest of the UK MPs, what is good for one is good for another).

 

It's hardly Brown's fault that England are constitutionally not allowed a parliament, or, English only issues for English only mps.

 

He's absolutely 100% accurate on this issue.

[Lawrence McGinty]

I think maybe "This bloke was rubbish as a Prime Minister" is a bit of an understatement, I think probably the worse this country has ever had. He was certainly the most evasive liar ever to sit in parliament.

 

No way, Thatcher was the worst by a country mile. And John Major was just useless.

 

I also think Cameron's tenure will be seen as a flop too when in 7 months time we are rid of him and his toffs.

[unclebulgaria67]

Simply untrue.

 

The sale of gold by Brown raised about £7 billion, hardly next to nothing.

 

Also, reserves of bars of gold earns no interest, they just sit in a vault. Brown turned this into cash to invest for public services, a perfectly practical thing to do.

 

I would suggest that what Gordon sold off hardly compares to what assets Thatcher sold during her time and for which huge amount of the British public now struggle to pay to foreign owners.

 

Oh, and open borders are a consequence of being in the EU, not a policy adopted by Brown.

 

Agree about the sale of BoE gold. To add Brown was advised to sell some of the gold assets and to instead invest in foreign currencies. Some of these currencies bought increased in value, but not quite as much as gold. Brown did not wake up one morning and think ' today is a good day to sell some gold'. This was something being discussed between BoE and Treasury officials over a period of time. Brown just agreed to the recommendations that were put to him. Of course if Brown knew that gold would increase in value so much years later, he would not have sold it.

 

Selling off state assets by the Thatcher government was done so they could earn money to spend, without raising taxes. Of course Thatcher knew that these companies would want to make a profit and invest in infrastructure so prices would rise. She just hoped that competition would help keep price increases down. Thatcher enjoyed most of the North Sea oil/gas revenues and most of the privitisation money, yet the countries public services like the NHS and schools were in a right mess. The UK is still dealing with the legacy of the Thatcher era.

 

Again on issues regarding the EU, the Tories have signed up to more treaties giving powers to the EU than Labour have ever done. Under the Blair/Brown period various opt outs were agreed and we did not even consider the EURO. It is true that Labour agreed to pay additional amounts to help with enlargement, but the Tories also agreed with EU enlargement, so would have also paid an additional amount. What the Tories did not like was that it was Thatchers rebate that was reduced and not just an extra amount paid in.

[Conniff]

Selling off a trainset is a bit different from selling the nations security. If you want a holiday what do you do, sell, your car or your house.

 

 

All countries have gold as security but Brown was too thick and too greedy. Don't put blame on the BoE, that wasn't independent then, Brown took it over so anything the BoE done can be put down as Brown doing.

 

 

He ordered ships for the RN, aircraft carriers, not one but two. We have neither the manpower nor the aircraft to crew one, but not only that, he signed a contract that was impossible to get out of. So now we have on ac sitting alongside a wall and the other will be rusting in a yard somewhere unless it can be sold off.

 

 

You will never win arguing on his behalf, for every one thing you can come up with, others can come up with a dozen to counter.

 

 

As regards Eu treaties, I don't know if they have signed up to any as there is no mention of the ones supposedly been signed up to, but if they have, they didn't welch on a promised referendum to do so, Brown did.