missing appeal

[lou wren]

Hello

 

I parked on a double yellow line. I was given a pcn by the local authority, I was going to pay as i was in the wrong but i was advised that as the lines were broken and did not end in a t-bar i should appeal. I did. after various letters i recieved a notice to owner letter asking what my grounds for appeal were. I replied stating the broad facts and stating why i was appealing and i wanted go to the adjudication hearing. Today i received a letter saying my appeal was not recieved and i had to pay £195. yet I had replied to the same address with 2 other letters. I wrote back asking for the surcharge to be removed and give me a hearing date, I was polite. what do i do next.

[Jamberson]

We'll need to know more.

 

Firstly, what did your letters say?

 

What replies did you get? What did they say?

 

Did you receive a Notice of Rejection from the council?

 

Did you apply for an adjudication hearing? (You can't just ask the council for a hearing date - you have to apply to the adjudicator to schedule one).

 

You will need to take some action quickly - the next stage is bailiffs - but if you can fill in the details here with as much info as possible, you will get some advice.

[lou wren]

Hello

 

I appealed the ticket straight away. I recieved a letter asking on what grounds i was appealing. They rejected this. I returned they reply stating i was still appeaing. then i got a letter saying they would send a nto letter. I recieved this letter and stated i wanted to go to a adjudication hearing. this letter they say they never recieved. I recieved a charge notice saying what i had to pay.

[Jamberson]

OK, so you received an NTO and responded to it - but never had a reply to that.

 

You can file a witness statement / statutory declaration, which can get the process set back to the NTO stage. If the last thing you received was a Charge Certificate, that will be followed by an Order for Recovery two or three weeks later.

 

When you have an Order for Recovery, that will tell you what to do next, and you can post up on here for any further advice you may need.

[lou wren]

ok. Thanks for the help.

[lou wren]

Hello

 

The order of recovery was scrapped in novemeber. I recieved a package on saturday 8th feb with all the correspondence between myself an the authority issuing the pcn. The pcn was for parking in a restricted street and not on the double yellow lines as i had originally thought. There were no signs at either entrance to the street in question. (I took a trip to the location and entered at the opposite end to which I originally entered.) There were no signs anywhere on street to say it was a restrictricted parking zone or anyway I could have purchased a ticket if I had known as there were no meters on the pavement or a number to call to purchase a ticket or a sign to say it had restrictions. As I am not a resident of the issuing authority this is surely fraudulent as anybody visiting that location would be ticketed unaware they were so called illegally parked. I Stated from my first correspondence that I wished to go to adjudication. I phoned PaTas the day I recieved the parcel to ask for my hearing date. They suggested I contact the issuing authority as They had no record of me. Any advice would be helpful as I am going to challenge the pcn as I was unaware of the restrictions.

 

Thanks for reading.

Thomas

Edited February 10, 2015 by lou wren
to clarify

[Jamberson]

Restricted Street is just official jargon for yellow lines.

 

So where are you at? Has the council referred the case to the adjudicator, with a hearing planned?

[Crazyhorse7]

As a FORMER traffic warden we were taught to look for "lines and signs" to make the ticket valid or don't issue. Is this a code 01? If so this would cover double OR single yellow lines. It is a broad statement - "restricted parking" to cover both scenarios.

 

Also photographs must be taken of the alleged contravention. Have you seen these yet?

 

My advice is to photograph the exact area where you were parked and make a note of any lines or signs anywhere in the area including the lack of a "T" bar. Please note: signs are not required for DOUBLE yellow lines.

 

This statement is from another site

 

"Double yellow lines –The double yellow lines must be clear and have a “T” bar at each end so a motorist can clearly see where they start and end. Unless otherwise indicated by signs double yellow lines mean no waiting at any time. There is no longer any requirement for an enforcing authority to place yellow “at any time” signs adjacent to double yellow lines."

 

Please post back with any info you get and I'll try to help.

[Jamberson]

Photos are not needed for the case to stand, and the T-bar requirement has long been determined as de-minimus (see the very first post for proof). Just the vehicle being on yellow lines is sufficient - no other signs or lines needed.

[Crazyhorse7]

Photos are or its a case of one word against another. Obviously the other site are wrong. Would you like to tell them?

 

The Councils I worked for would not accept ANY pcn without photographic evidence. Obviously not all Councils are the same. Any tribunal worth it's salt would uphold an appeal without evidence.

Edited February 10, 2015 by honeybee13
Fee-charging website removed.

[green_and_mean]

Photos are or its a case of one word against another. Obviously the other site are wrong. Would you like to tell them?

 

The Councils I worked for would not accept ANY pcn without photographic evidence. Obviously not all Councils are the same. Any tribunal worth it's salt would uphold an appeal without evidence.

 

 

 

Funny how Councils enforced for years without cameras if thats the case, millions of PCNs must have been cancelled!!? You do not need photographic evidence to be found guilty of murder so its hardly going to be a legal requirement for a parking ticket.

Edited February 10, 2015 by honeybee13
Quoting fee-charging website from previous post.

[Jamberson]

Photos are or its a case of one word against another. Obviously the other site are wrong. Would you like to tell them?

 

The Councils I worked for would not accept ANY pcn without photographic evidence. Obviously not all Councils are the same. Any tribunal worth it's salt would uphold an appeal without evidence.

 

Photos are not needed. Yes it is one person's word against another, the two people in question being a CEO who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by issuing bogus PCNs, and the motorist who has nothing to lose and everything to gain by telling fibs. Go figure.

 

If you can quote something from the other site, which states that photos are required for a PCN to be enforced, then yes I will email them and tell them they are wrong.

 

I also think you need to be clear on your role as a warden/CEO. Of course you would be under instruction to get photos - it's part of the job. But once your end of the process is complete, the rest is outside of your experience. You have to get photos - fair enough. The adjudicator isn't going to be swayed if you haven't.

[lou wren]

Hello

 

I took 8 photos, all were clear. They showed that the lines were broken and the t-bar was not complete. The pcn included many photos of my car and the lines. I am at the stage where the council has sent all the correspondence to the adjudicator and I am waiting for a decision. Yet I stated from the first contact I had with them that would be going to adjudication.

[Jamberson]

When you say you are waiting for a decision, were you offered the chance to attend the hearing? You should be able to go to the hearing to present your case. You don't have to, and if you declined then fair enough, but I wouldn't let this go through without putting your side of the case forward. Better to attend the hearing if you can.

[Crazyhorse7]

To Jamberson: please don't be patronising. I was good at my job and I was taught the legal side of the job as well as the practical. I speak from experience. My opinion is that if ANY Council tries to uphold this "offence" then they are just money grabbers. Also reading your statements you fit that category. Go for it Lou! Morals on view here I think.

 

Mr /Mrs/Miss/Ms Jamberson. Please do not take this as a war. In my opinion I am/was a professional in my field and I look at it from both points of view it's just a pity that the people making the money don't!

[lou wren]

Hello

 

I took 8 photos, all were clear. They showed that the lines were broken and the t-bar was not complete. The pcn included many photos of my car and the lines. I am at the stage where the council has sent all the correspondence to the adjudicator and I am waiting for a decision. Yet I stated from the first contact I had with them that would be going to adjudication. The last contact I had from the council was on 5/11/14 until the package with all the details and correspondence between us arrived on 7/2/15.

[lou wren]

I have had no contact with PaTAS. I Have not been given a date for the hearing. I am asking advice For my next possible move.

[Jamberson]

I would try calling PATAS to enquire about the hearing. Find out what the state of play is.

[Jamberson]

if ANY Council tries to uphold this "offence" then they are just money grabbers. Also reading your statements you fit that category.

 

How in god's name am I a money grabber? How in the world could a single penny of lou wren's money find its way to me? Get a grip!!

 

If you read this thread, I advised the OP to file a witness statement, which has now collapsed the progression of the case and all the extra charges. They can now go to adjudication to fight the PCN, and I'm trying to help them find the route to do that. If they do, I will help advise on how to play it with a view to winning and having the PCN scrapped. So I'm on the same side as you, aren't I?

[Crazyhorse7]

Because you act like it's your money not the Council you worked for!

 

Had enough of this lark. Advice to anybody is contest the ticket.........I've had three and won them all because I know the law and people aren't as ....shall we say Council orientated at some others.

 

Good luck Lou!

[Jamberson]

Because you act like it's your money not the Council you worked for!

 

Had enough of this lark. Advice to anybody is contest the ticket.........I've had three and won them all because I know the law and people aren't as ....shall we say Council orientated at some others.

 

Good luck Lou!

 

I'm in the middle of helping them to contest it by getting into the adjudication hearing !!!! Read the thread !!!!

[Crazyhorse7]

Doesn't sound it! Goodbye people and best of luck to you all.

[honeybee13]

Doesn't sound it! Goodbye people and best of luck to you all.

 

Carzyhorse, I hope you will stay around and advise, speaking for myself. But to all on this thread, please could we stop the personal debate and stick to advising the OP?

 

Thank you, HB

[lou wren]

thanks to everyone who gave advice. I will let you know what happens next.