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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Natwest Chargeback refusal - Banners Broker


SteveUK10
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Hello Everybody

 

I'm one of the fools that trusted a friend who got me to bite my tongue and join Banners Broker even though I had my doubts about the company.

 

I put in no small amount and of through being online found out it was indeed my worst fears and it was a spoof

 

Now I've been in a fight to get my money back from this seriously depressing experience for over 9 months now and I'm not giving up,

 

there's a liquidator appointed now and there's the charge back service or at least I thought there was a chargeback service.

 

My latest fight has been with my Natwest

 

asking them to pursue visas 540 day chargeback service under the section

" Goods not received" And a lot of other affiliates have been successful with this.

 

Natwest is playing hardball though this is the response I got off them today.

 

The latest one I've been hit with and I'm trying to get my head around is this

"You've used part of this company's service by them creating an account allowing you to deposit money into it

and the possibility to make withdrawals.

 

I responded by saying I'm disputing the terms and conditions where it says they will pay affiliates commissions

and that all liquidation request will be honoured etc, so I've not received their service.

 

They're saying

"That withdrawals is only a partial service they are providing to you and as we can't ascertain

what the value of that service is we can't pursue a chargeback."

 

They went on to say that

"The terms and conditions under section C only provide remit for a legal chargeback not through visa's chargeback service."

 

This is section C from Banners Broker

 

Section C (Affiliate & Client)

Payment Conditions

I adhere to the following:

  1. All liquidation requests made shall be honored within fifteen business days for standard subscribers and seven business days for premium subscribers to the payment amount noted in your back office.

  2. All commissions and bonuses are paid in the name of the applicant on the affiliate/client agreement.

I don't know what to do

 

I know there are successful affiliates who have claimed their money back through their banks.

 

I just don't know what to say to my bank and

 

I'm really not sure why they're hung up on the possibility of a withdrawal only being a partial service

and that I had some service by the company creating an account etc.

 

What's really baffling me is that I've sent them the liquidation letter from the court 2 times already

and this is the latest in a series of excuses to not follow the charge back request.

 

I'm fighting both banners broker and my bank

 

how am I the one who looses and what's worse is this banks ethos is going above and beyond in customer service.

 

I know I'm idiot for getting involved

 

I've been living with that for the 1 year and a few months.

 

Do I have a leg to stand on or do I wait the long wait and put all my eggs in the liquidator basket?

 

Plz If you guys have anything that could help I'd really love to hear from you.

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I've sent in the following information

 

 

A guide explaining exactly what happened

Screen shots of when the money was taken

Screen shots of my wallet

Information on the liquidators

Letter from the court saying the company was declared a Ponzi and put into liquidation

 

The person I spoke to who was a manager in the retail disputes department said at the beginning there was a training issue,

but NatWest have had this sent to their fraud department and seem unwilling to act.

 

I'm the victim of a well disguised Ponzi scheme but NatWest are making me feel worse than I already feel.

 

I know I made a mistake but so long as there's a chance to get some of my money back I'm going to fight to try and get it.

 

Disappointed with NatWest they have all the information they need to try n recover this money indeed their response to me is based on the company they'd try n recover the money back from being a legitimate company she couldn't seem to get it that this company is now liquidated etc.

 

Is my only option to go to the financial ombudsmen and complain about NatWest?

 

Remember other banks have successfully charged back money for their customers using visas 540 day rule, why can't NatWest?

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Hi SteveUK10

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain what's happened, how they have let you down and what you want them to do.

 

What you also need to do is include COBS as the NatWest have signed up to these key principles, do some research on COBS.

 

NatWestare regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, NatWest have to adhere to a set of legally binding key principles laid down in the Conduct of Business Sourcebook. NatWest has treated me unfairly under the following COBS Principles:-

 

Principle 6 - Customers' interests - A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.

 

Principle 7 - Communications with clients - A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.

 

 

Send it to:-

Mr Ross McEwan

Chief Executive

RBS

[email protected]

 

Also report it to Action Fraud :- http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

 

Then complain to the FOS, also set up or join an action group.

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not really helping are they NatWest

 

sadly that's the usual response from them regarding chargeback.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hey rebel11 and dx100uk thanks for replying and for the advice :-).

 

 

When I take a step back and look at it It's absolutely insane they're trying to find out what the value is of a PONZI scheme's ability to send withdrawals to me is? That's nuts it's legitimising a Ponzi by letting them keep my money and making me fight to get it back. I just really can't get my head around that, ok I've been really stupid in falling for something but surely NatWest who's ethos is customer service should be supporting me more than they are.

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When I take a step back and look at it It's absolutely insane they're trying to find out what the value is of a PONZI scheme's ability to send withdrawals to me is?.

 

They have to abide by the Visa Operating Regulations which makes it clear that chargeback claims are limited to the portion of services which are not received.

 

I assume that you have also made contact with the liquidator to attempt to get your money because that is another condition of the chargeback scheme?

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They have to abide by the Visa Operating Regulations which makes it clear that chargeback claims are limited to the portion of services which are not received.

 

I assume that you have also made contact with the liquidator to attempt to get your money because that is another condition of the chargeback scheme?

 

 

So do visa operating regulations include the services of Ponzi schemes? please if they do I'd love to see a link to it?

 

 

Because that's what your saying here that visa need to know the value of the services that were not received from a Ponzi scheme, and a company that's been put into liquidation by a court of law.

Edited by SteveUK10
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So do visa operating regulations include the services of Ponzi schemes? please if they do I'd love to see a link to it?

 

 

Because that's what your saying here that visa need to know the value of the services that were not received from a Ponzi scheme, and a company that's been put into liquidation by a court of law.

 

You are asking Natwest to make a Chargeback for "Services Not Provided". Whether that service later turns out to be a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme is beyond the scope of those regulations.

 

Can you point me towards or provide me with a copy the terms and conditions which govern your payment to this company?

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Govern payments to this company could you elaborate on that a little? I'm not sure what your asking here?

 

 

This is what I found in the terms and conditions about payments to them

 

 

Section J (Affiliate & Client)

Registration

1. Ordering. All purchases of product inventory, sales aids, literature and supplies are strictly optional and are made available online or through the Ordering Department depending on the requirements of the country of residence.

2. Acceptable Methods of Payment. Payments may be made for all online orders through the use of a company approved payment method such as SolidTrust Pay, Payza and AlliedWallet. If you choose Allied Wallet as your payment method your credit card statement will read EW-BannersBroker18882551137

 

 

All those mentioned in point 2 are payment processors etc.

 

Edited by SteveUK10
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