Link Financial response from my CCA request

[renegadeimp]

Well, if they are looking for the CCA, then they obviously do not hold it, so in all respects, they should not be threatening court action, which a lot do. Especially the likes of lowells, cabot and especially link. Those 3 thrive of people paying when they don't have to pay them a penny.

[DonkeyB]

But that’s not a legal basis for withholding payment!

[fletch70]

http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/CONC/13/1

 

Have a read of the new FCA rules on S77-79.

 

Quite interesting and if I read it correctly does stop them issuing a claim and producing the documents at the 11th hour.

 

Donkey, it is not a legal basis it is a choice. It is one thing to respond and say we have asked the OC for the details and we expect it to take 40 days, it is another just to say we dont have them but will keep looking or not even reply. It is not illegal or unlawful to be in debt and it is not illegal or unlawful not to repay those debts unless there is a court judgement in place to say you must

[DonkeyB]

http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/CONC/13/1

 

Have a read of the new FCA rules on S77-79.

 

Quite interesting and if I read it correctly does stop them issuing a claim and producing the documents at the 11th hour.

 

Afternoon Fletch.

 

I can’t quite see where you draw that conclusion from. There’s nothing new in that guidance that wasn’t already there, or hasn’t developed from Carey or other cases where the CCA has been central (eg. Phoenix v Kotecha).

 

This is guidance, and does not supersede case law. In fact, it clearly quotes it!

 

In Scottish law, the documents have to be available before the claim is made. It would be a good idea if that happened in the rest of the UK.

 

Donkey, it is not a legal basis it is a choice. It is one thing to respond and say we have asked the OC for the details and we expect it to take 40 days, it is another just to say we dont have them but will keep looking or not even reply. It is not illegal or unlawful to be in debt and it is not illegal or unlawful not to repay those debts unless there is a court judgement in place to say you must

 

Yes, I agree, and it is a choice, but it should be an informed one. If legal action does follow, and the CCA is produced and is valid and enforceable, and your actions are found to be wanting – eg. stopping a repayment on an agreement for no valid reason – then it won’t help you. It’s a choice whether you murder someone, but there are consequences.

 

I take the view that if you believe it’s simply a ‘choice’ to withhold payment when a CCA doesn’t turn up within 12 days, then you are simply making a choice, not something based in any law. CAG exists to try and give accurate advice, not prejudiced ‘choices’, which is what ‘no CCA = no pay’ certainly is when given as blanket advice in every situation.

 

Every person’s situation is different, and as I’ve said there are times when you can, in my ’umble opinion, legitimately stop payments. But stopping payment on a false technicality, when you have an agreement in place, as a matter of ‘choice’, is closer to evasion than avoidance. I hate DCAs and debt buyers as much as anyone, and I want to see the industry reformed. But until then, places like CAG are all the majority of debtors can afford to consult, so we need to avoid blanket, dog-whistle advice.

[fletch70]

Hi

It seems that the FCA handbook goes further than the OFT guidelines in some areas and should have more backbone.

Yes I appreciate what you say but this is how I have come to the conclusion

 

Outstanding CCA request

 

Under the section failure to comply the firm must not threaten court action and with any demand for payment make it clear that the debt is UE

 

So following on from that, under CPR there should be LBA etc. Now if that is not a threat of court action I do not know what is in which case under the rulebook they can not issue a LBA which will cause them problems in a defended case.

 

Then have a look at S76(1) and s87(1) so it seems to me that they can not issue proceedings if there is an outstanding cca request

 

 

I do however agree with you that every case is different and blanket advice is not a good idea hence , hopefully, the use of questions to ascertain the facts.

 

I do have to say that there are many actions that I would not endorse particularly if the person has either assets or a reasonable income and I would never recommend dropping payments to £1 a month unless that was the only affordable amount on an enforceable debt .

I am also, generally against sending failure to comply letters provided you have proof of delivery or acknowledgement of receipt

 

I do not however condone the racking up of debt with the deliberate intention of not repaying, I think that is the minority though

[DonkeyB]

Yup – the last section, point 8 [13.1.6(8)], issues that as guidance, ie. if the creditor KNOWS that there’s a CCA s78 request outstanding, it should not threaten to be able to enforce.

 

But equally, it also acknowledges further up that many of the steps taken are (legally) not classed as enforcement – it will depend on the circumstances. This is how unscrupulous DCAs will get away with the threats – they stretch the law, and ignore the guidance to which they claim to adhere. Hopefully the FCA will use its improved powers to impose sanctions on these DCAs and debt buyers.

 

For example, if a default notice has been issued, and the debtor is paying a reduced sum, there is no question of demanding earlier repayment as that has already been done by way of the DN. That’s what I mean by every case being different – so much depends on the circumstances.

 

And, to reiterate, that’s guidance only, but it should be followed. The most interesting point there is what I mentioned earlier – it’s not the law you need to use but other methods to stop making a payment if there’s no CCA coming long-term or if they threaten to sue or ignore a request – specifically, treating customers fairly, and not misleading them as to the true legal position, and thereby creating an unfair relationship.

 

Completely agree with your other points. I think we’re arguing semantics here, not essence.

[fletch70]

Completely agree with your other points. I think we’re arguing semantics here, not essence.

 

I would agree with that

[BlueEarner]

Brilliant, thank you. And I hope all which has been brought up is useful to others.

[BlueEarner]

Progress...

I wrote again to my creditors, following up the 'please produce the CCA' request, with a statement saying I would temporarily suspend payment until CCA had been produced.

Once I wrote that the response was prompt with some.

 

BOS actually produced the 11 year old CCA photocopy.

 

Link financial said sorry they have no copy, and reduced the debt to £0, and also made a request for all default payments on that account to be removed

 

Another, said 'we can't find it, we're looking for it, please bare with us'

Still waiting on two more.

[Bandit127]

Donkey and Fletch. For some reason I can't give you reputation for this discussion, so I am posting up my thanks for the quality of the advice and discussion in this thread. Very useful for me and I hope many others.

[DonkeyB]

Glad it’s had some effect! Well done. It often pays to take the fight to them – but you need to be sure of what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.

[BlueEarner]

Correction - it was Lowell who cancelled the debt, not Link.

 

Link, however, sent me this cryptic response:

 

"Dear Sir

Thank you for your letter.....please be advised the documentation you requested was sent on 28.1.14. Another letter was sent to which was also returned to our office. Please can you confirm the address you have provided is the most suitable for correspondence......"

 

Odd, as there has never been a problem before, including this above letter which arrived without a problem! Wonder if anyone has had this before? My spidey-sense tells me they are fishing for my signature.....

[fletch70]

IMO a typed and digitally signed letter to them confirming the address is in order. I would send it by signed for. They seem to be suggesting that two letters were returned to them , maybe it's a try on to then serve a claim on you to a slightly incorrect address

[BlueEarner]

Yes agree totally.

[pencil]

I would say it is prudent not to make any payments if the company cannot provide you with proof that you signe for the alleged debt. Otherwise, anyone and everyone could send you demands for 'owed money'.

[renegadeimp]

Thats where a CCA request comes in.