shoosmiths LLP / Arrow Global - Claim Form Received

[duntisdave]

HI.

I have received a claim form, dated 17/3/14 from Shoosmiths LLP, acting for Arrow Global, who are trying to collect an old capital one credit card debt. I have already sent of a CPR31.14 request, after reading advice on these forums, and have completed the acknowledgement of service online. I am unsure of what I need to do next. I know I have a certain time limit to submit my defence, but I am a little unsure of what that defence should be. I have defaulted, and I have not made a payment since the first of February 2008. I am guessing the Claim has been issued now to avoid the debt becoming statute barred?

I have also received a letter from Shoosmiths LLP, dated 25th March 2014, indicating their clients intention to request judgement against me on 5th April 2014. They have also given me an opportunity to make a lump sum payment to their client, to avoid court action.

Any advice will be gratefully received!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, you say no payment since Feb 2008,has there been any written acknowledgment of the debt in that 6 year period?

What is the default date?

Is this on CRA files still?

Have you stated you will defend the claim.

 

 

Arrow Global have a large number of accounts that are already stat barred.

[ims21]

I have moved your thread to the Legal forum where the guys will be along to help as soon as they are available.

 

Can you have a read here and answer the questions asked in the those posts please, i.e. the ones you have not already answered in post #1 above.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.

[duntisdave]

HI All,

Thanks for helping me, and sorry I did not reply sooner. The information you requested is:

 

 

 

You have received a Claim - What you need to do.

You have received a claim form.

 

In order for us to help you we require the following information:-

 

 

Name of claimant:

Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd

 

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

17th March 2014

 

Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total)

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

"1. The claimants claim is for the sum of 684.80 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and Capital One (Europe) plc (No. 12345678912345) and assigned to the claimant on 25/02/2011, notice of which has been provided to the defendant.

2. The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

3. The claimant claims the sum of 684.80

4. C has completed, as far as is necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

Number

 

 

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed: 684.80

Court Fee: 55.00

Solicitors costs: 70.00

Total Amount 809.80

 

Has the claimant included section 69 interest (8%)within the total claim or is it shown separate within the Particulars but not added to the debt?

No

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account?

 

 

 

No

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007?

I don't know. I can only check the bank transactions back six years. I am not sure if the agreement was started before or after 2007

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

 

 

The claim has been assigned to Arrow Global. They have issued the claim.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

 

 

Yes and Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

 

 

Yes

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

 

 

I don't think so, but cant be sure

 

Why did you cease payments:-

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

 

 

No, just got into financial difficulties

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

 

 

No and No

 

What you need to do now.

 

Answer the questions above

 

If you have not already done so – send a CCA1974 request to the claimant

 

Send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitor named on the claim form for copies of documents mentioned/implied within the claim form. There are two different versions - one for Loans/Credit cards the other for Current accounts

 

 

Sent the CPR31.14. No response as yet. Still need to do the CCA1974 request. Not sure what this one is?

 

 

 

Once again, I thank you for any help you can give me!!!

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by citizenB
removed account number

[duntisdave]

Hi, you say no payment since Feb 2008,has there been any written acknowledgment of the debt in that 6 year period?

What is the default date?

Is this on CRA files still?

Have you stated you will defend the claim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arrow Global have a large number of accounts that are already stat barred.

 

 

Hi BRIGADIER2JCS.

Thanks for helping me. The answer to your questions are:

No acknowledgement from me

I am not sure when the default date was, the past payment from me was feb 2008.

I have not checked my credit files recently, do I need to do this?

I have acknowledged the claim on line, stating my intention to defend.

 

 

Thanks again for your help

[citizenB]

Your timeline is as follows:

 

Issue date 17.03.2014 + 5 days for service = 21.03.2014 + 14 days to acknowledge = 04.04.2014 + 14 days to submit a defence = 18.04.2014.

 

You have acknowledged the claim.

 

You say you have not made a payment or acknowledged this account since 1st February 2008 - in which case it is likely to be statute barred I would think. I will ask for advice from others on the site team.

[citizenB]

HI.

I have received a claim form, dated 17/3/14 from Shoosmiths LLP, acting for Arrow Global, who are trying to collect an old capital one credit card debt. I have already sent of a CPR31.14 request, after reading advice on these forums, and have completed the acknowledgement of service online. I am unsure of what I need to do next. I know I have a certain time limit to submit my defence, but I am a little unsure of what that defence should be. I have defaulted, and I have not made a payment since the first of February 2008. I am guessing the Claim has been issued now to avoid the debt becoming statute barred?

I have also received a letter from Shoosmiths LLP, dated 25th March 2014, indicating their clients intention to request judgement against me on 5th April 2014. They have also given me an opportunity to make a lump sum payment to their client, to avoid court action.

Any advice will be gratefully received!

 

They cannot apply for Judgment on 25th March they only issued the claim on the 17th .. what are they on ??

 

Sorry I read that wrong.. they reckon they can apply for the judgment on 5th April - which they cant as you have acknowledged and requested the extra 14 days.

[fletch70]

When you made the last payment was it the normal monthly payment or had you already defaulted by then

 

I would say it is important to check your credit file for the date of default, Noddle is free and unless you have used them before you can get free trials from equifax and experian . You need that default date to be before 17/3/2008.

 

The fact they have not said when a DN was served may suggest that they have something to hide

[oleg]

Dave

You said you didn't know what date the agreement began. This is normally shown at the head of Shoosmiths debt collection letters, next to the balance.

Fletch suggests that the D N needs to be prior to 18 March. Given that you last paid on 1 Feb, this is highly unlikely to have happened.

However this might not scupper your chances. Some here believe S B will not occur until 6 years from D N but others of us take it, on the basis of the majority of court precedents, as being 6 years from the first missed payment. If the dates you have supplied are Correct, we could assume that to be 1 March.

Exactly how Shoos behave in this respect is key. They could well posit the D N date argument but you could argue the last payment one; of course the decision lies in the judge's hands.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The default date could be anything up to 6 months after the last payment and this being Capone maybe later still.

[fletch70]

Oleg

I use the date of the DN to be absolutely sure and something that would stop any claim dead. We know that every case is different and indeed some of the agencies agree that it is really all in detail of the contract. There is no harm though in trying the fisrt missed payment. Of course that all depends on the due date , some people pay on receipt of he bill, others wait until the actual due date and others still just pay on payday.

Capital one contracts typically include a clause giving 30 days after the missed payments before the contract can be terminated and the balance demanded

 

Is there really any court precedent, as far as I am aware there is non otherwise this would not still be debated .

 

Of course all this may be irrelevant if the agreement is prior to Apr 2007 and turns out to be unenforceable

The important info needed is

date of default

was last payment a normal contractual payment or an arrangement

date of agreement

The results of the CCA request

 

 

I have a suspicion that the claim may have been started just in time however the more info you have the better the defence

[oleg]

I kept out of the bun fight over S B as it bounced between reason and nastiness and I don't intend to join one now. I have merely expressed

my own particular viewpoint and I bow out of any further discussion here, out of respect for the OP.

In my experience, C1 DNs vary greatly in amount of time from last payment but can, as stated above, take up to 6 months; they can, however, take as little as 2 months.

Fletch you are right about C1 typically giving a 30 day notice of termination. To my mind that constitutes the very latest point at which a "cause of action" can be said to occur.

As for agreement start date, I repeat my earlier point that this is usually shown at the start of Shoosmiths begging letters, so we can easily know whether it was pre-2007. I wish others in the DCA cesspool would follow this practice.

[oleg]

Forgot to add . . You are right about Shoos taking action at the very brink of S B. They always do that. In fact they are Arrow staff working within the Shoos stable with preset instructions from A G High Command, including whether to initiate legal action.

[AndyOrch]

DCAs have software that trigger the dates of when debts are to become SB and when litigation should commence ...its all automated.

 

In situations like this were the argument is borderline I would advocate a full defence rather than claiming statute barred.So lets forget that and look at the merits of any defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[oleg]

Yes it's an auto-trigger and S B should not be at the core of the defence if its status is marginal, though all the better if can be argued on reliable evidence to be S B.

[oleg]

Point of interest about Arrow and the S B trigger. When an account of mine, £20K no less, was approaching 6 year anniversary FROM LAST PAYMENT, they set Shoos onto me. It was definitely based on L P as the D N

for the card in question was not issued until 7 months later.

I have a policy of no intercourse with DCAs, even if they are solicitors.

I hoped for the best but feared the worst. As it happens, Shoos eventually left me alone. At that point two things became clear to me:

1 They were basing S B on date of last payment.

2 Arrow had decided I wasn't worth pursuing. [How sad.] They wouldn't abandon £20K if they thought they had any hope.

[AndyOrch]

I would have to agree with you oleg..as most claimants would not understand " Cause of Action " and their software certainly wouldn't.

[fletch70]

I agree that to go in with just a SB defence is not the best idea . That is why I was asking other questions to establish what , if any , reasons can be used for a defence.

 

Andy, I know you say that the SB date is automated and I can certainly believe that, I have seen instances on here where a SB letter has been sent and the response has been that the clock starts from the default date . I know that debate is difficult and frankly both consumers and creditors could do with some binding decisions about when it starts . I err on the side of caution, however once you claim it is SB it is up to the claimant to prove that it is not.

 

I personally have never taken an action by a DCA to mean anything concrete. There really are too many variables. Of course we know that they do make claims for both SB and UE debts in the hope that they will gain judgement by default. I would have thought that complete non communication would have only increased the risk so I am surprised and pleased for you that they wrote off 20K. I do not know your circumstances but maybe they decided that there was more to be gained in writing off the debt than getting a judgement

[AndyOrch]

" Andy, I know you say that the SB date is automated and I can certainly believe that, I have seen instances on here where a SB letter has been sent and the response has been that the clock starts from the default date . I know that debate is difficult and frankly both consumers and creditors could do with some binding decisions about when it starts . I err on the side of caution, however once you claim it is SB it is up to the claimant to prove that it is not."

 

Not a case of the SB date being automated but the Litigation date and when to commence proceedings.Most have little paperwork apart from the DoA so are not aware of history or defaults...generally unless you tell them its SB they are not aware either way and will then try to find statements. Dont forget that there is no requirement to retain hardcopy \Default Notices...so all they can request/check are the CRA markers the original creditors statements/data trail and when your last payment was made.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[duntisdave]

Oleg

I use the date of the DN to be absolutely sure and something that would stop any claim dead. We know that every case is different and indeed some of the agencies agree that it is really all in detail of the contract. There is no harm though in trying the fisrt missed payment. Of course that all depends on the due date , some people pay on receipt of he bill, others wait until the actual due date and others still just pay on payday.

Capital one contracts typically include a clause giving 30 days after the missed payments before the contract can be terminated and the balance demanded

 

Is there really any court precedent, as far as I am aware there is non otherwise this would not still be debated .

 

Of course all this may be irrelevant if the agreement is prior to Apr 2007 and turns out to be unenforceable

The important info needed is

date of default

was last payment a normal contractual payment or an arrangement

date of agreement

The results of the CCA request

 

 

I have a suspicion that the claim may have been started just in time however the more info you have the better the defence

 

 

 

Hi Fletch70,

Thanks for your help.

What do you mean when you say if the agreement is pre april 2007, the agreement is unenforceable? Does that mean there is no case to answer?

I don't know the answers to your other questions, regarding date of default. I am also unsure about the last payment; it certainly was not made under an arrangement as I have never entered into one. I still don't know what a CCA request is, so have yet to do it! any help gratefully received!

One more thing - I might have mentioned this before, but will repeat it now - the letter from shoosmiths, after the original claim was issued, invited me to offer a lump sum payment. Would they have done this if they thought they had a realistic chance in court?

[duntisdave]

Hi all,

thanks again for your many replies.

Does any one know. If the worst comes to the worst, and C1 obtain a judgement against me, what happens then? can I offer £5.00 per month, and would they have to accept this?

[duntisdave]

One more question I forgot to ask.

If shoosmiths do not reply to my CPR31.14 request within the allotted time, which was 7 days from receipt of letter, what happens next?

Thanks again!

[oleg]

Shoos' "offer" to negotiate does not necessarily indicate a weakness in their case. I wouldn't read too much into it.

They are not obliged to respond to your C P R request but you can ask court to force disclosure of documents.

The court decide on the terms of a C C J, taking your circumstances into account.

Could you please tell us the start date of your C1 agreement,

usually shown at start of Shoosmiths' debt collection letters [not the pre-court stuff]?

[fletch70]

Hi

 

This is a CCA request http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387435-CCA-Request-Consumer-Credit-Act-1974

 

You need to send it to AG along with a blank P.O. for £1 . Send it signed for delivery . Get that sent off ASAP.

 

When I talk about pre April 2007 the difference is that the agreement must be properly executed and if not they can not enforce although to be perfectly honest the later the date the more likely it is to be accurate.

 

I agree that the offer of a lump sum payment really doesn't mean anything , it's probably easier for them to get a lump sum now and close it that have to manage

 

If they have not complied with the CPR request I think you should also be asking for an extension in filing your defence

[oleg]

We should make clear to you that older C1 agreements routinely appear to be either untraceable or non-compliant therefore defending the claim is almost certainly in your interest; it pains me to see defeatist talk such as "can I offer them £5/month? " What, and go without your Kit Kats?

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