Statute barred overdraft debt?

[lexbubbles]

Hi there.

This is likely to be a bit long (it's a rather unusual and long story)

so I'll bullet point it for easy reading.

If anyone can offer some clarification on SB stuff that'd be great!

 

 

• August 2008 - opened a student account with Lloyds with a £200 interest-free overdraft using a birth certificate and letter from university (I had no passport or drivers' license)
  
• September 2008 - used the overdraft to survive until student loan came in. Went over £17
  
• September 2008 - Tried to pay £217 into my account and was told the account was blocked and no payments could be made in
  
• September 2008 - I went in-branch and was told that I needed to provide the passport I opened the account with???
  

The account had been flagged because there was no copy of the passport attached.

I explained I'd never had one and that someone ticked the wrong box when setting up the account,

but would be happy to provide my NI card, birth certificate, university letters and anything else.

They insist on seeing 'the passport I provided upon opening the account'

• October 2008 - Lloyds still refuse to accept payments into the account.
  

Start charging £70 a month in overdraft fees (£10 flat rate and £6 a day max 10 consecutive days in a month)

• December 2008 - Still applying charges. Account now stands at £217 + £210 in fees
  
• January 2009 - I move house for the first time and cease all contact with Lloyds (they will not let me change the address on an account which is blocked, so I don't)
  
• December 2009 -
  

A debt collection agency contacts my grandmother (no contact is attempted by phone to myself).

The debt now stands at £1,057 (£217 overdraft and £840 in fees).

She tells them I don't live there, does not give them a forwarding address, and they leave her alone

• November 2013 - I start receiving texts from '1st credit'. This is the first contact by phone I have had.
  
• I have never acknowledged the debt, in writing or otherwise.
  

My question is

- when does the ticker for SB start?

 

I've read in some places that it is last contact by the lender

- would that be the last time 1st credit text me?

 

Because that's this morning.

 

Meaning my 6 years starts today providing they leave me alone.

 

Which would be... irksome.

 

However other sources say last acknowledgement made by me,

which would be never (since I never acknowledged it).

 

In this case would it be from the time Lloyds passed it on

- which to my best estimation (since they wouldn't let me change my address I never received any written communication) is December 2009?

 

I've moved house 3 times since the initial in 2008, and will be moving again soon.

In the various muddles I've lost the overdraft fee letters from Lloyds,

but as stated I never got any collection letters or anything since they wouldn't let me change my address,

give them money, or do anything at all without providing a passport that I had never actually been in possession of.

 

Thanks for any help, and congratulations to you on reading all that. You're a star.

[dx100uk]

sb is 6yrs unless you are in scotland.

 

however just jury is out upon 'when'

and overdraft account does become SB'd anyhow.

 

Loan, Credit Card and similar.

1-> Cause of action is when the terms of the contract (agreement) are breached.

2-> LA timings start from the breach date i.e. when the creditor could/is able/can start the process needed to get their money. The right to start the process accrues to them at the date of the breach.

3-> The fact that they may choose not to start that process straight away has no effect on the clock. For example, if they choose not to start that process for three months after the breach then they have not extended the Limitation period by three months.

4-> While there is a procedural bar imposed on them, this does not affect the clock.

5-> What failures on the conduct of a debtor which would be a breach are contained within the Terms of the contract and in order to establish absolutely the SB date then the debtor will need to consult the terms.

6-> The clock does not start from the date of the last payment made, it starts from the date of the breach of contract.

7-> The date on which a default is registered with a credit reference agency is a completely separate issue to the LA debate.

Overdrafts.

As above really. The cause of action would still be the date of a breach of any contract. If such a contract exists the debtor should refer to those to establish the breach date and go from there.

If there is no such agreement then the clock will start from the date on which the bank formally request repayment.

The SB date for an overdrafticon may not be easy to establish as it will all be down to what records/agreements/letters etc. are available to find out what the terms of the overdraft were.

 

have you looked at you credit file to see what the defaulted date is?

 

dx

[lexbubbles]

What I was asking is does the clock start from when I last made contact with them or when they last tried to make contact with me?

 

Because that will be either 2009, or this morning. Does 1st credit texting me today about the debt, which I have not acknowledged, re-start the SB clock to day 0 or not (I don't know if they've tried to write letters to me - see previous points about address)?

 

Edit: I don't know the exact date of the default or the terms or whatever because I couldn't receive anything in writing from them. Literally ALL I want to know right now is whether 1st credit contacting me via SMS about the debt counts as an action on the part of the lender thus resetting the clock to 0, or does the clock only reset when I acknowledge it in writing or make a payment?

 

Am I on day 1 or day-somewhere-close-to-6-years? Seriously all I want to know right now. I could probably find out when the exact default date was but if 1st credit contacting me today resets the clock to day 0 then it doesn't really matter - I have 6 years to go from today. Get my point? This really is all I want to know.

Edited January 24, 2014 by lexbubbles

[dx100uk]

Overdrafts.

As above really.

 

The cause of action would still be the date of a breach of any contract.

If such a contract exists the debtor should refer to those to establish the breach date and go from there.

 

If there is no such agreement then the clock will start from the date on which the bank formally request repayment.

 

The SB date for an overdraft may not be easy to establish as it will all be down to what records/agreements/letters etc.

are available to find out what the terms of the overdraft were.

[lexbubbles]

Right, so 1st credit contacting me does not restart the clock in any way and I am close-to-6-years on this now, as long as I continue to not acknowledge it (which I can't anyway since they're not contacting me in writing)?

[dx100uk]

its immaterial but i'll entertain you..

 

it matters not what letters or calls or texts from anyone TO YOU it does not reset anything

 

your written ack of the debt and SIGNED could be used.

 

but in this instance

its when the original creditor FIRST asked you to repay the full amount outstanding.

 

if you don't know that

 

you'll have to SAR the OC>

 

dx

[andydd]

I would of thought also that their refusal to let you pay off the debt in the early stages could be used as some sort of defence (as well as the possible SB), have you any evidence of this ?

[lexbubbles]

I would of thought also that their refusal to let you pay off the debt in the early stages could be used as some sort of defence (as well as the possible SB), have you any evidence of this ?

 

No. They only refused in-branch in person, and refused to provide a notice of the account blocking in writing since I couldn't provide the passport and prove I was me yada yada

[lexbubbles]

its immaterial but i'll entertain you..

 

Several places talking about SB stated that any contact made from the lenders to the debtor reset the clock and THEY (not just me) had to ignore it for 6 years, which is why I was asking. Hardly immaterial.

 

From debt advisory centre (I can't post links)

 

"debt can only become statute-barred if neither the borrower nor the lender does anything about it for at least six years."

"If:

• your lender doesn't contact you about the debt, and
  
• you don't acknowledge the debt in writing, and
  
• -you don't make any payments towards it...
  

...for six (or twelve) years, then it can become statute-barred"

 

"If your lender contacts you, or you contact them, at any point in that period, the time basically starts again on that date - another six (or twelve) years would have to pass before the debt becomes 'unenforceable'."

 

My thinking was that a DCA chasing it up counted as action on the part of the lender and so the debt couldn't be statute barred which is why I was asking for clarification. If contact from a DCA doesn't count as action on part of the lender then I'm fine.

 

The actual date of the default is what's immaterial at the moment. I have no desire to get credit of any form any time soon and having a default doesn't affect me - I was simply wondering if I was close to my 6 years or starting from scratch. That's all.

 

Edit: also this, from the same page

"It's not very likely that one of your lenders will simply forget about money you owe them for so many years. And there's nothing you can do on your own to make sure a debt becomes statute-barred. Just ignoring their phone calls and letters - or failing to tell them about a change in address - will not work."

[dx100uk]

they are wrong....

 

a lender or a dca writing to you DOES NOT reset the SB clock...

 

however in this case [an overdraft] it matters not whatever letters were sent

 

the important one is when the original creditor called in the full balance.

that is when the debt became due

and when they 'could' have started the legal process

[lexbubbles]

they are wrong....

 

a lender or a dca writing to you DOES NOT reset the SB clock...

 

however in this case [an overdraft] it matters not whatever letters were sent

 

the important one is when the original creditor called in the full balance.

that is when the debt became due

and when they 'could' have started the legal process

 

Righto. Thanks. That's really what I was confused about - a lot of conflicting information out there on this.

 

One last thing: will it be automatically statute barred at ~whenever 6 years is probably next December I will check via SAR later~ or is it something I have to request in writing? As and when it is statute barred, does it remain in any way on my credit file as a negative mark thus adversely affecting me getting future credit?

 

Edit: shoot, one other thing sorry. If they take out a CCJ does that prevent it being SBd? How will I know if and when they've taken one out since they don't have my address? Sending a letter to a very out of date address probably counts, to them, as notifying me in writing even though I'll never receive it.

 

Edit mk II: I did a check with trustonline and I don't currently have a CCJ out against me. I guess just keep checking periodically and hoping!

Edited January 24, 2014 by lexbubbles

[dx100uk]

please be clear this ONLY applies to overdrafts.....

 

we are of the general opinion that the SB date is from when the Original Creditor

first demanded the full balance in a letter.

 

as you've moved several times

 

you ideally need to be getting a copy of your credit file

check ALL your old address SHOW.

 

then see if the debt shows.

 

then come back.

 

a CCJ within the SB period WILL reset the clock

as will ANY legal judgement [i'e a Statutory Demand]

 

dx

[dx100uk]

what was the site

 

http://www.debtadvisorycentre.co.uk/

 

or

http://www.dacscotland.co.uk/

[lexbubbles]

The first - it came up in a google search for statute barred definition.

 

/ advice / what-does-statute-barred-debt-mean-0-3991-0 DOT HTML

 

tack that on the end, remove spaces and replace DOT with . and it should bring the page right up.

[dx100uk]

http://www.debtadvisorycentre.co.uk/advice/what-does-statute-barred-debt-mean-0-3991-0.html

 

that is VERY wrong

 

dx

[fkofilee]

I dont see 1st Credit using a SB here...

DX is right, However note, that a debt being SB can be used as defence in court.

 

Its important you know that

[dx100uk]

sent them a correction!!

 

that a fee charging debt management company

what else do you expect!!

 

they want to frighten customer into joining them

and paying fees to manage debts

you can manage for NOTHING yourself!!

 

dx

[lexbubbles]

I signed up to Noddle to check my report, and there's no trace of the Lloyds account anywhere - although I can't get it to list the address (it only asked for the last 3 and Lloyds was before that) so maybe that's why?

 

Bizarrely, my HSBC account is missing as well (although my Halifax one is there - both current accounts) and that's definitely linked to my current address.

 

But from what I can tell - no defaults listed and no CCJs *fingers crossed*

 

I did a check with Experian some 3 or 4 years ago (when I COULD still put the Lloyds address down) and there was nothing on it then? Which at the time I thought was strange, but apparently I can't check now because I've moved too often

 

Edit: Equifax also won't let me go any further back than the last 3 addresses (5 years). Bah.

Edited January 24, 2014 by lexbubbles

[fletch70]

I remember many yars ago I was told that a creditor contacting you reset the clock but I know now that this is wrong. AS said there is some dispute on exactly when the clock starts on overdrafts (there is some dispute on other credit as well but that isn't relevant here).

 

I am as certain as I can be that the date starts from when the bank recall the overdraft and until you know that you can not asses the start of the clock. I have read of a case recently where a bank left it 11 years to demand full repayment because it took that long for the OD to reach the limit.

 

When people talk about action it is usually classed as action in court (so a claim ) and therefore I would not personally count a SD as action that stops the clock as that is an instrument . I stand to be corrected on that if anyone has evidence.

 

I am assuming that the bank refused to let you pay money into the account and as such I think there is a defence although you would need to show that this was what happened. Maybe that SAR to lloyds would shed some light on it.

 

If 1st Credit have bought the debt it will in all likelihood be one of many sold in a bundle and they will have minimal knowledge of it. Any idea how they got your mobile number?

 

 

Because I am nice like that i have sent the link to the OFT....probably won't do any good but cost me 30 seconds time and an email

Edited January 24, 2014 by fletch70

[lexbubbles]

If they sold it on to a DCA, does that not mean the bank no longer control it and so can't try to enforce it this far down the line? Them passing it on to a DCA who asked for full payment *was* Lloyds in effect demanding full repayment, non?

 

They did refuse to let me pay money in, but it was in person in-branch. As I said further up the thread, I couldn't get anything to this effect in writing as they wouldn't honour any such requests without me providing the mythical non-existent passport. All I got were letters saying that another £70 in fees had been added and to pay it off. Except every time I went in I couldn't (even if I went with the letter!) so I just stopped when I moved.

 

I don't know how 1stCredit got my number - I assumed they got it from the bank when the debt was sold on?

[fletch70]

Oui

 

But for that you would need to know the date of assignment

 

I assume then that you have not changed your mobile number in all this time ( I have had mine for 15 +years)

 

I assume it was just a general txt (if not they are in breach of the DPA) might even be a fishing txt

[Peterbard]

I remember many yars ago I was told that a creditor contacting you reset the clock but I know now that this is wrong. AS said there is some dispute on exactly when the clock starts on overdrafts (there is some dispute on other credit as well but that isn't relevant here).

 

I am as certain as I can be that the date starts from when the bank recall the overdraft and until you know that you can not asses the start of the clock. I have read of a case recently where a bank left it 11 years to demand full repayment because it took that long for the OD to reach the limit.

 

When people talk about action it is usually classed as action in court (so a claim ) and therefore I would not personally count a SD as action that stops the clock as that is an instrument . I stand to be corrected on that if anyone has evidence.

 

I am assuming that the bank refused to let you pay money into the account and as such I think there is a defence although you would need to show that this was what happened. Maybe that SAR to lloyds would shed some light on it.

 

If 1st Credit have bought the debt it will in all likelihood be one of many sold in a bundle and they will have minimal knowledge of it. Any idea how they got your mobile number?

 

 

Because I am nice like that i have sent the link to the OFT....probably won't do any good but cost me 30 seconds time and an email

 

Yes I think you are right about the statutory demand, although the presenting of the actual petition would be I think.

I know that one or the other does represent the " action" as I have read case law where the action for BR has been the issue of an action after a judgment under section 24.

[lexbubbles]

The first contact from a DCA was December 2009 when they hassled my grandmother (via the landline) about it and she told them to sod off, so I assume it was sold/demand for full repayment around that time ie just over 4 years ago. So I've got about 2 years left until it falls under SB, I guess. Knowing the exact date might be useful but by, say, July 2015 I'm definitely past 6 years and in the clear on that front

 

No, I've had the same mobile number since I was 13 (11 years). I mean, I'd change it to get rid of them once and for all but I'm really attached to this number now. Anything else would feel wrong

 

Text reads

MISS ALEXIS K ****** (last name blanked for my own privacy, obviously they have it)

Please contact 1stCredit on 01737235240 quoting reference 9294102

 

I've had at least 10 in the last month, as well as a call every couple of days that I don't answer (I don't answer my phone to numbers I don't have saved) from that 01737 number.

 

Just over 2 years ago there was a different DCA trying it on and they were phoning me at all hours like 11pm and stuff until I basically just said "no idea wrong number sorry" a few times and they left off.

 

So... so far, to my knowledge, there have been 3 different DCAs after it, each about 2 years apart (they try it on for a month or two, give up and then 2 years later I get a different one)

 

*shrug*

 

At least now I know it being passed around DCAs or them contacting me doesn't keep resetting the clock. I'll just wait it out. Not exactly in a financial position to be buying a house or car or anything (disability benefit mostly) so it doesn't bother me on the getting-credit front just yet. I don't even have an overdraft, let alone a credit card. I just manage with what I have. Really I'm just relieved, I guess, to know that in a couple of years if they're still trying I can protest it as SB, get it removed, and y'know move on. And never bank with Lloyds ever again.

[fletch70]

I know what you mean about being attached to a phone number. I have friends who change theirs like i change socks. If you have a smart phone you can get appsthat black texts and numbers. I did that when i was getting lots if calls from express finance.

If you are on the electoral role they will find you and write. Until then do nothing.

[lexbubbles]

If you are on the electoral role they will find you and write. Until then do nothing.

 

I'm not. Back at the start of 2010 when this started going down with DCAs, I phoned the CAB and the woman advised me to take myself off of it until the debt became statute barred.

 

It does mean I get auto refused any kind of credit (which is why I don't even have an overdraft now) but I don't mind that much for the time being, I guess.