Property Management Company

[NokinNikon]

Hi

 

I live in a block of flats which is currently under the management of a Property company, they are not landlords as ALL flats are privately owned by the tenants. The reason we got them in is because one of the flats was sold and the person who sold her flat used to look after the running of the property, i.e. arranging a gardener to do the lawn, window cleaners to do windows etc. after she left we all decided that due to work commitments it would be best to hire a property company to manage our block, We are all Directors as we have a residents association for the block and pay a monthly service charges into our residents bank account, which is also used for repairs etc

 

The problems started when we started receiving letters from the management company informing us that all items in the hallway need to be removed, potted plants for instance. We were told that due to H&S fire rules etc that they need to be removed as it invalidates our insurance, bearing in mind that most of us within the block have been her over 15 years and never had a problem in the past with getting public liability insurance.

 

Just recently a contractor came into the block at the behest of the management company and removed a couple of items under the stairs, stating that its an obstruction in the event of a fire!.. which is fair enough, except that said items were completely not in the way of the exit as they were literally un-seeable and the flat owner who lives at the bottom of the stairs said that they are not in the way at all. Apparently, they wrote to all tenants informing everyone that items would be removed if we did not move them.

 

All I want to know is can they do this? no date was given on the letter as to when we should move the item and can we get them back.

 

We have had nothing but problems since they took over, emails have been sent to them to repair a light bulb, which took 3 weeks!! We have have structural work done on the block and they were reluctant to use the building company we as tenants wanted, because their quote from their building contractors were astronomical,

 

We are having a meeting this week without the management company present to vote on if we should dispose of their services, which judging by all the feed back, we will not use them any longer.

 

any help would be appreciated

 

regards

 

Nik

[andydd]

Hi.

 

So you are probably leaseholders, (I.,e you technically rent the flats for 99-999 years).

 

The most likely scenario is that there is a freehold company of which you all have shares and are directors and also employ a management company to do the day to day running, management, collect service charges, etc

 

But if the above is true, then you (as freehold directors) employ the management company and can if you want get rid of them, if this isn't the scenario then who is employing the management company ? (It would normally be the freeholder or can be refered to as a landlord despite your claim there is isn't one).

 

The management company (and ultimately the freeholder) have obligations within the lease and therefore making sure common areas are clear of clutter maybe one (there are also numerous statute and common laws regarding helath and safety, etc), what if someone tripped and injured themselves, they could sue who ever is responsible, (which may you and the freehold company).

 

But in summary the management company is responsible ultimately to you, so if you don't like em, give em the bhoot.

 

As for costs of work, this area is tightly regulated, the process to be followed is as described in S20 of The landlord & tenant act 1985 > http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70, failure to follow this can lead to the FH/Landlord only recovering £250 from each leaseholder, this could be disastrous for a tenant share freehold company like yours * assuming it is.

[NokinNikon]

Hi Andydd thanks for your information.

 

As far as I know we are the leaseholders and freeholders,

 

Yes..we have decided to give them the boot. and I totally understand about someone tripping on items etc, but my point was that there is no way anyone could have tripped over, they would have smashed their head on underside of stairs before getting to the items!!! does that mean the open stairs need to be closed off, because in the event of no lighting and a fire... (god forbid!) someone leaving the bottom flat would more than likely collide into the underside of the stairs and cause themselves an injury!! (...and still would not crash into the items!)

As residents we all understand our responsibilities not to put anyone in danger, as I mentioned we have all been there quite a while but we are all not happy at the way things have been taken

 

Do we also have to have a fire/smoke alarm in the passage then, we have them in our individual flats but not in the 'communal area'?

 

Going back to original post, Is it possible to get back the items that were removed?

 

appreciating the help/advice.

[andydd]

Its possible to be both a leaseholder and a freeholder (as a director or shareholder in freehold company), this can lead to strange positions where you effectively sue yourself !

 

Some leases are triparty meaning that it is an agreement between leasehold, freeholder AND management co., these are rareish though and normally its upto freeholder to perform the lease obligations (which he often does via a management co.), but remember ultimate responsibility is with the FREEHOLDER and it is he who would face legal action, etc.

 

In your case, your management company seems to be overstepping the bounds a bit, it depends on what the contract between you and him says, it may say that he has to perform all the obligations within the lease, which no doubt he thinks he is doing AND the obligations with common statute law (this would include various health & safety obligations and things like Defective Premises Act 1972, it may well be that by removing items from common areas he believes he is complying with these acts.

 

I certainly believe that any items should be returned to you !

 

As for smoke alarms, I don't know, there is lots of legislation about this and may depend on how many flats and who uses the common area, the point of employing a management company though is that you shouldn't have to worry about such things, you are the freeholder but you let the man co. deal with legislation and the day to day running.

[mariner51]

If residents sack the Mgt Co, all residents should appoint one person to manage repairs, accounts, block Ins and statutory safety requirements for communal areas.

Safety officers may regard resident goods left under communal stairs as a trip/fire safety hazard eg cardboard boxes and other combustibles like petrol/paraffin containers.

I suppose the most common item under stairs may be a pushchair for upper flat residents.

Nothing to stop you asking the fire brigade to give a free fire risk assessment re clutter and smoke alarms in communal areas.

[andydd]

The poor person..!

 

Its not as simple as appointing a person, managing a building could well be a full time job and involve many complex issues such as insurance, legislation, health and safety, etc..not too mention complex financial matters such as running a separate account and complying with the money in trust rules, maybe anti-laundering, interest, etc

 

Its certainly not a job for someone unfamiliar with property management and there are current proposals in the pipeline to legislate in this area and require property managers to be certified and registered, etc.

 

Whilst it wouldn't appear to be relevant here, LH's can apply to an LVT (now FTT) for the appointment of a manager if the current one isn't doing his job, BUT an LVT wont allow the appointment of just anyone, he would have to show his credentials and show his is trustworthy and qualified to do the job.

 

Taking into account the above, this is why most FH's (even LH run FH companies) opt for a management company, the going rate is often about £150 per LH per year which isn't a huge cost.

[raydetinu]

No they cannot remove items that don't belong to them and must return them! and should of taken reasonable steps to establish who they did in fact belong to. ( could regarded as theft and certainly could lead to court action ).

If they had done a risk assessment, this should have been forwarded to the tenants for discussion and response, then action taken with agreement.

Obstructions on an escape route is understandable and fire hazard material stored under the stairs is again reasonable, but plants!!

Any proposed manager must be competent, with relevant experience and qualifications etc.

[citizenkain]

Ive noticed over the years in flats Ive been involved in,everything ticks along nicely up until someone sells a flat or rents it out to other people,this is when it gets a bit complicated,if someone has rented a flat for 6 months or short term they tend not to care about the other flat residents that's why you need clear cut rules about leaving stuff in communal areas etc,how do you stop folk doing that?,you need someone to remove stuff.

You really need someone from the outside looking in and rules that everyone sticks to or its chaos

[andydd]

Ive noticed over the years in flats Ive been involved in,everything ticks along nicely up until someone sells a flat or rents it out to other people,this is when it gets a bit complicated,if someone has rented a flat for 6 months or short term they tend not to care about the other flat residents that's why you need clear cut rules about leaving stuff in communal areas etc,how do you stop folk doing that?,you need someone to remove stuff.

You really need someone from the outside looking in and rules that everyone sticks to or its chaos

 

Although many leases do specifically disallow sub-letting for this very reason