Roofer did shoddy work and has now filed court claim against me

[Kinger122]

Kinger,

My post #269 "How many plate TIES ?

 

Not TILES. .....But it made me laugh , so thanks :-)

 

Haha, the builder jargon is pretty confusing. I did spend a while googling plate ties

[f16]

Kinger

Paragraph 2 (Building Inspector reply)

There are no flashing kits to take this Velux unit below 15 degrees.

 

"Water Test" ??????

How do we factor the wind driven rain into this "Test" ???

 

Are you sure this lot are "Playing with a Full Deck" ???

 

Insurance ? Not a chance. "Bob Hope....... No Hope"

[Kinger122]

Kinger

Paragraph 2 (Building Inspector reply)

There are no flashing kits to take this Velux unit below 15 degrees.

 

"Water Test" ??????

How do we factor the wind driven rain into this "Test" ???

 

Are you sure this lot are "Playing with a Full Deck" ???

 

Insurance ? Not a chance. "Bob Hope....... No Hope"

 

 

Look what I have found.

 

http://www.corc.co.uk/code-of-practice

 

EXECUTION OF CONTRACT AND MATERIALS USED.

 

5. Each trade member shall execute each contract in accordance with current building regulations, relevant British or European Standards or other technical approved accreditation’s operative at the time, and of practice relevant to the work being carried out.

5.1 Each contract must be fully supervised for quality of workmanship, adherence to specification, compliance with Building Regulations and client satisfaction.

5.2 Where a client seeks to disregard a trade member’s advice on work to be carried out, or materials to be used, the facts shall be recorded in writing.

 

The company is not a member.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Kinger122
more infor added

[Kinger122]

Kinger

Paragraph 2 (Building Inspector reply)

There are no flashing kits to take this Velux unit below 15 degrees.

 

"Water Test" ??????

How do we factor the wind driven rain into this "Test" ???

 

Are you sure this lot are "Playing with a Full Deck" ???

 

Insurance ? Not a chance. "Bob Hope....... No Hope"

 

Yes exactly. Last year when we had the really high winds around autumn time, that was when it leaked.

 

The building inspector is talking about upstands which cost hundreds each apparently, which are special order from velux only. And they look UGLY. They are the ones which are used for flat roofs.

 

One more point. He is an NRFC member so is it likely he will use these people?

 

http://www.qanw.co.uk/

[Kinger122]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50255[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50257[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50258[/ATTACH]

[f16]

Kinger

That insurance co are based in Scotland and there is a difference between Scottish law and English law.

I don't know if that affects you in this case.

 

I don't do the "Legal Bit"

Others will advise.

[f16]

Kinger

Just checked The photos above. 3 times.

 

No "Plate Ties" (roof ties) at all.

This is a flat metal bar with a 90 degree bend, roughly 1200mm X 150mm.

The shorter part goes over the timber on the top of the wall (wall plate). The longer section then runs down the wall and is fixed to the wall with screws.

This "Ties" the roof to the building to prevent it being blown off in "storm conditions".

In your case these "ties" should be fixed to both flanks and the front elevation.

IMO. 4 on the front and 2 on each flank

[f16]

Hi Kinger,...... Interesting day to day !!!!

 

I rang Velux. Spoke to "Tech" dept. Explained the "pitch" problem and that the Building Inspector suggested a flat roof flashing kit.

He said "That still won't work". He also stated the only way was to increase the pitch to 15 degrees.

 

I rang Centurion Tiles. They are saying their tiles must be fitted with clips and all points on their fitting instructions must be followed.

When we get to the stage of talking about this with the Building Inspector, he "may" be interested but this is not part of building regs.

 

I have "Other plans" for that information !!!

 

Got the drawings. Cheers

They clearly show soffit vent and verge (gable) vents.... Which are not fitted.

"Plate Ties" where you live are referred to on the plan as "Roof Straps"

The plan states "Roof Straps to be positioned at 2M intervals" I can not see one !!

 

We discussed why Mr Clip Clop Clip Clop Roofer took you to Court when the condition of the roof he produced is so poor.

 

Read "Making a complaint about a member" on the NFRC website.

Note the last point about "Legal Action"..... NFRC "withdraw".

He Knows the roof is a total shambles and does not want it inspected and him have to address ALL the errors.

 

He just Blew his other leg off with that move.

 

Any response from the architect ?

[f16]

Kinger.

I've "Sussed" how to get the roof at 15 degrees. Just worked it out !!!

100% sure this will work

Architect will need to redo the calculations for Building Regs because my idea is placing the "Load" of the roof on the 2 flank walls (gable walls).

He (architect) has put all of the "Load" on the "front elevation" wall.

[Kinger122]

Hi Kinger,...... Interesting day to day !!!!

 

I rang Velux. Spoke to "Tech" dept. Explained the "pitch" problem and that the Building Inspector suggested a flat roof flashing kit.

He said "That still won't work". He also stated the only way was to increase the pitch to 15 degrees.

 

I rang Centurion Tiles. They are saying their tiles must be fitted with clips and all points on their fitting instructions must be followed.

When we get to the stage of talking about this with the Building Inspector, he "may" be interested but this is not part of building regs.

 

I have "Other plans" for that information !!!

 

Got the drawings. Cheers

They clearly show soffit vent and verge (gable) vents.... Which are not fitted.

"Plate Ties" where you live are referred to on the plan as "Roof Straps"

The plan states "Roof Straps to be positioned at 2M intervals" I can not see one !!

 

We discussed why Mr Clip Clop Clip Clop Roofer took you to Court when the condition of the roof he produced is so poor.

 

Read "Making a complaint about a member" on the NFRC website.

Note the last point about "Legal Action"..... NFRC "withdraw".

He Knows the roof is a total shambles and does not want it inspected and him have to address ALL the errors.

 

He just Blew his other leg off with that move.

 

Any response from the architect ?

 

I believe he must be away on holiday. I got an auto response. I am going to try and contact him again tomorrow.

 

I am assuming then even after the court action the NFRC are not going to get involved at all.

[Kinger122]

Kinger.

I've "Sussed" how to get the roof at 15 degrees. Just worked it out !!!

100% sure this will work

Architect will need to redo the calculations for Building Regs because my idea is placing the "Load" of the roof on the 2 flank walls (gable walls).

He (architect) has put all of the "Load" on the "front elevation" wall.

 

That sounds interesting. However, thats only good if the roofer agrees to do the work. I have got a reply from one of his admin/receptionist/employee. I sent the email to him, but he has started getting someone else to respond. Anyway after I told them that I was going to liaise with building control to find out exactly what was wrong, and to then let them know what needed fixing I got this response:

 

"Good Evening Mr xxxx

I am in receipt of your email below and note the contents.

 

Can I first ask why you are making arrangements to contact the Building Inspector when the District Judge has already given directions for (Company) to contact (Inspector) following necessary repairs of the Velux windows?

 

As stated in (Roofing company owner's) email below, (Building inspector) has already been contacted and has confirmed he will return to your property to inspect and sign off the completed works in order for (Company) to arrange for insurance and warranties.

 

We need you to now follow the Directions of the General Judgement and allow access to your property to complete the works. Therefore please return by email dates you will be available for this access."

 

Woah! what seems to be going on here. They seem to think a little tinkering of the flashing and its job done. The judge said nothing of the sort he said

The claimant shall at his expense inspect the velux windows and rectify any aspect of the installation likely to result in water ingress. The claimant is now however required to alter the pitch of the roof. Further, and also at the Claimant's expense the Claimant shall arrange an inspection by the local authority inspector."

 

 

They seem to be trying to just get everything rushed and signed off, which was expected. Can anyone advise how to deal with these people, as I can see this going back to court very soon, and I just seem to be banging my head against a wall at every opportunity. I think I would be very foolish to sit back and watch this inspector (if you can even call him that) bark on command at the demands of this company.

[Kinger122]

So just to update:

 

 

• Today I emailed the inspector telling him I wanted him (or someone suitable experienced enough) to come around and inspect all aspects of the roof. I told him how important it was that the inspection was thorough as there is a court case relying on the inspection.
  

 

 

 

• Architect Will be chased up tomorrow
  

 

 

I have also realised something today. I am sure F16 is aware of this but it has not been mentioned yet. The insurance backed guarantee only becomes active once the roofer ceases to trade. As long as the roofer is trading I will have no comeback to the insurer and will have to deal with this roofer directly. His terms and conditions state loads of exclusions to the warranty, so I can just see him refusing a guarantee claim if the roof leaks. He will say that I have tampered with it again, and the insurance backed guarantee won't get involved as the company is still trading.

 

 

I can see this ending badly for me and I have learned a lot of painful lessons along the way.

[f16]

Kinger

"The show ain't over: 'till the Fat Lady sings"

[f16]

Another ? For the architect...... In fact a list.

 

1. ventilation on soffits and gables.

 

2. Plate ties (Roof Straps). Should they also be present on the gables ?

 

3. On the Centurion tiles fitting instruction it states. "down pipes from higher level roofs should not discharge onto the "Centurion" tiled roof.

What provision was made for this ?

(looking at the plans there is a way around this).

[f16]

Things to do list.

Measure the tile "Over lap" for each course of tiles.

Easy method: Measure a full tile (385mm). then measure from the end of the tile above to the end of the tile below.

Subtract the difference.

[Mike_hawk]

That sounds interesting. However, thats only good if the roofer agrees to do the work. I have got a reply from one of his admin/receptionist/employee. I sent the email to him, but he has started getting someone else to respond. Anyway after I told them that I was going to liaise with building control to find out exactly what was wrong, and to then let them know what needed fixing I got this response:

 

"Good Evening Mr xxxx

I am in receipt of your email below and note the contents.

 

Can I first ask why you are making arrangements to contact the Building Inspector when the District Judge has already given directions for (Company) to contact (Inspector) following necessary repairs of the Velux windows?

 

As stated in (Roofing company owner's) email below, (Building inspector) has already been contacted and has confirmed he will return to your property to inspect and sign off the completed works in order for (Company) to arrange for insurance and warranties.

 

We need you to now follow the Directions of the General Judgement and allow access to your property to complete the works. Therefore please return by email dates you will be available for this access."

 

Woah! what seems to be going on here. They seem to think a little tinkering of the flashing and its job done. The judge said nothing of the sort he said

The claimant shall at his expense inspect the velux windows and rectify any aspect of the installation likely to result in water ingress. The claimant is now however required to alter the pitch of the roof. Further, and also at the Claimant's expense the Claimant shall arrange an inspection by the local authority inspector."

 

 

They seem to be trying to just get everything rushed and signed off, which was expected. Can anyone advise how to deal with these people, as I can see this going back to court very soon, and I just seem to be banging my head against a wall at every opportunity. I think I would be very foolish to sit back and watch this inspector (if you can even call him that) bark on command at the demands of this company.

 

Refer him to the order and advise him he may have misunderstood the notice. Who he engages is a not at issue, not sure why he believes you cannot engage the services of the inspector independantly of the order he has to comply with. If anything is not clear to him he only has to make application to the court. You could In the meantime give him some future dates to work on so as not to appear obstructive. You would think its in his interest to return to site with a clear works schedule which would satisfy building control.

[f16]

Kinger

 

Post#287

Don't "Lose the plot now".... Not what the Judge ordered.

Not his "Worthless" guarantee. Insurance Backed !!!

 

His "Problem" is. "We" know who the underwriters are.......

 

There now you "Spoilt" my surprise.

[f16]

Cheers Mike_Hawk,

Like I said "Building bit I eat ,drink ,breath and sleep the job.Legal bit not my bag"

[Kinger122]

Another ? For the architect...... In fact a list.

 

1. ventilation on soffits and gables.

 

2. Plate ties (Roof Straps). Should they also be present on the gables ?

 

3. On the Centurion tiles fitting instruction it states. "down pipes from higher level roofs should not discharge onto the "Centurion" tiled roof.

What provision was made for this ?

(looking at the plans there is a way around this).

 

I'll send that off tomorrow, and I will measure the tiles. I will get back in touch as soon as I have more information. Thank you all for not giving up on me.

[f16]

Kinger

We are not ready for the Building Inspector yet.

Need response from architect first.

 

You might have to pay for the Building Inspectors visit when you point out all the defects .... But as per the Judgement ... You "Claim" that back.

Your "Roofer" then has to pay for the "Sign off" (which won't happen) visit

 

Just to comply with the building regs (architects spec.) It's going to cost him £100s.

Let alone the Velux flashing kits and this"Water test"

 

"At the Claimants expense"...... That's Materials and labor

.

And get an insurance backed guarantee.

He will "Walk away"

[Kinger122]

Kinger

We are not ready for the Building Inspector yet.

Need response from architect first.

 

You might have to pay for the Building Inspectors visit when you point out all the defects .... But as per the Judgement ... You "Claim" that back.

Your "Roofer" then has to pay for the "Sign off" (which won't happen) visit

 

Just to comply with the building regs (architects spec.) It's going to cost him £100s.

Let alone the Velux flashing kits and this"Water test"

 

"At the Claimants expense"...... That's Materials and labor

.

And get an insurance backed guarantee.

He will "Walk away"

 

 

Hi F16. I called the architect again today and got no answer. I have also sent an email with all the points you mentioned. I have measured a row of tiles in the middle from the top to bottom. The overlaps are the following

 

 

107mm

95mm

99mm

96mm

105mm

95mm

95mm

96mm

102mm

99mm

99mm

100mm

96mm

98mm

98mm

95mm

[Kinger122]

I have also received the following in a letter from the company

 

 

Dear Mr xxx

 

Further to the order, as attached, I emailed you 3rd April 2014 and I then wrote to you 8th April 2014 and now again today. I write to you to request that you communicate with me and allow my staff to visit your property to rectify the problem of the velux windows as stated.

 

As District Judge xxxxx has expressed in his summoning up, it was expected that this would have been completed prior to the actual General Form of Judgement being received in the post. Unfortunately this is not the case and I have received no communication from you whatsoever.

 

It is not my intention to give you till Tuesday 22nd April to contact myself and arrange a suitable time to visit your property. Otherwise you will leave me with no alternative other than to contact the court with a request for immediate judgement including all legal costs and interest to date.

 

I do hope this will not be the case and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Your sincerely

[f16]

Hi kinger

 

So out of 16 courses of tiles the "Roofer" gets just 4 at the correct spacing (correct "overlap" or "headlap" btween 100mm and 110mm).

 

Bear in mind he has done this knowing the "pitch" is at 13.5 degrees not the 15 on the drawings.

You think he would make every effort to get this stage of the job right.

[Kinger122]

Hi kinger

 

So out of 16 courses of tiles the "Roofer" gets just 4 at the spacing (correct "overlap" or "headlap" btween 100mm and 110mm).

 

Bear in mind he has done this knowing the "pitch" is at 13.5 degrees not the 15 on the drawings.

You think he would make every effort to get this stage of the job right.

 

 

So should the overlap be even more than centurion say, especially as the pitch is less than 15?

 

 

 

I still have not received a response from the building inspector. I have the feeling he just wants the "easy way out." I am pretty sure the builder has arranged for the inspector to come along with him when he decides to come and "fix the flashing." I don't really feel like the inspector is going to be on my side here.

[f16]

Max overlap is 110mm

 

Like I said I don't do legal.

 

You need contact from the architect via Email then an urgent visit from Building Control.

If you can't get the former then we will just have to "Wing it".