MIB - 3 years of silence and now demand for £37k

[Bennie1486]

Hi All,

 

Any advice anyone can give wild be greatly received!!!

 

Quick version: just over 3 years ago,

I left an abusive relationship but we shared a child and a car

- turns out my ex didn't pay the insurance once month

- the same month a lady decided to do an insurance job on me.

 

In the car was myself,

my best friend

and my 8 month old son

- the other car was just a woman.

 

We were all alive and all walked away with just bruises including my baby but best friend broke her collar bone.

 

The car in front stopped dead and I tried everything but couldn't stop in time.

Don't want to go into too much detail but police arrived and at the scene of the accident only charged me with driving with no due care and negligence.

 

I later received documents from the police stating they had then realised I was not insured which I had also found out.

 

I went to court for both counts of driving with no due care and negligence and for driving without third party insurance.

The magistrate was very sympathetic and with the proof I made clear to the court

- I was charged with driving with no insurance and given 6 points and a £200 fine.

 

I knew then that something would come from a claim as I was in the wrong but really didn't realise I was not insured.

Would never put my child in danger or anyone else.

 

A few days after the crash

- a smug man turned up at my door from the MIB and I was still in shock

and I cannot remember the conversation but pretty sure he made an appointment with me to come back but never did - this might be nothing.

 

my best friend decided to sue me - which I had to understand but safe to say our friendship was over. I understood why though.

 

3 years on - I receive a letter from a solicitors on behalf of the MIB stating I owe £37,000

- this is the first I have heard of this since the court case.

I always expected something but not to that value!!!

 

I contacted the solicitors as soon as I opened the letter and asked for a means form (think that's what it's called)

so that a payment plan can be set up straight away with no further action taken.

 

I'm asking the following:

 

1. Does it not matter that I have heard nothing???

2. Am I allowed to ask what the breakdown is of the £37k?

3. I am a single working mother - are they going to insist I pay so much that I can barely survive?

4. Could this affect my career as an Accountant???

 

Any advice is welcome please!

 

Please do not think I am trying to shy away from my responsibilities

- I have never been in trouble with the Police.

 

At that time had been driving 7 years and never had a speeding fine or even a parking ticket.

 

I just would like to know my rights as a human not just as the uninsured driver.

 

Thank you

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

A very sad tale indeed!

 

In the most simplest terms i'll answer the following;

 

1) Perhaps. If they were at the stage they were going to take you to court then yes it would. They would first be required to give you adequate warning.

2) Yes

3) Well you would obviously need to make them aware of your financial circumstances although ultimately it may be for a

court to decide what payments you make.

4) Possibly. But only if you are required to divulge such matters. If they carry out a CRB check, then they will see the conviction and may want an explanation. It maybe the case however, that motoring convictions will be of no interest to a prospective employer unless driving was required for the post.

 

My over all advice would be to contact CAB and show them the letter.

[unclebulgaria67]

Do you own a house with any equity in it ?

 

I suspect that the MIB Solicitors will be looking to see whether you own any assets by checking land registry. If you own a house, they may look to get a CCJ against you, for which they subsequently applied for a charging order against the house. This would not allow them to force the sale of the house immediately, but they may require you to enter into a payment arrangement.

 

As suggested you should go to see CAB or a Solicitor. You need to talk through your financial situation, what actions the MIB could take and what options you have.

[Ganymede]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

A very sad tale indeed!

 

In the most simplest terms i'll answer the following;

 

1) Perhaps. If they were at the stage they were going to take you to court then yes it would. They would first be required to give you adequate warning.

2) Yes

3) Well you would obviously need to make them aware of your financial circumstances although ultimately it may be for a

court to decide what payments you make.

4) Possibly. But only if you are required to divulge such matters. If they carry out a CRB check, then they will see the conviction and may want an explanation. It maybe the case however, that motoring convictions will be of no interest to a prospective employer unless driving was required for the post.

 

My over all advice would be to contact CAB and show them the letter.

 

 

 

If the MIB manage to get a CCJ then I imagine it would cause a lot of problems for an accountant. The OP should check with her regulating body.

[Bennie1486]

I'm sorry for my ignorance - what is CAB?

 

No I have no equity - I am in the process of saving for a mortgage and have just moved back into my parents. As you can imagine I now know that is now a very distant dream and am feeling pretty deflated and very anxious as to how I am going to provide and support me and my son while paying back such a huge amount. I'm sorry I know I have to pay for my mistake but I feel like I no longer have a safe future - I was expecting around £15k not £37k. That's my annual salary!

 

Thank you for all your comments - very helpful and constructive it is much appreciated.

[citizenkain]

CAB=citizens advice bureau

[unclebulgaria67]

I'm sorry for my ignorance - what is CAB?

 

No I have no equity - I am in the process of saving for a mortgage and have just moved back into my parents. As you can imagine I now know that is now a very distant dream and am feeling pretty deflated and very anxious as to how I am going to provide and support me and my son while paying back such a huge amount. I'm sorry I know I have to pay for my mistake but I feel like I no longer have a safe future - I was expecting around £15k not £37k. That's my annual salary!

 

Thank you for all your comments - very helpful and constructive it is much appreciated.

 

If I were in your shoes I would get some legal advice. One possible avenue to consider is a 'without predjudice' full & final settlement offer, where you make them an offer of a lump sum payment, as full settlement. If the debt is £37000, if you could raise 10% of this amount, you could offer this amount, as you do not have any assets or financially ability to make payments. They may accept it, as the best option for them.

 

Your letter would basically say that you have no assets, you are only on £15k salary a year, a single parent with a young child to support, you have no ability to make repayments. However, you have been able to borrow from relatives a sum of £x and wish to offer this as a full & final settlement.

 

If this is accepted, the debt will be gone and you would not have the worry of court action, plus all the hassle over many years. One of my relatives paid a mortgage debt of £30k, by offering £2k via a Solicitors. It enabled them to move on. If they had not done this, they would have been chased for years and it is possible some of the inheritances they received years later would have been caught.

[theuprightman]

The 37k will consist of personal injury, damages and an overwhelming percentage towards the claimants legal costs.

 

What's the name of the solicitor/ collection agent instructed by the mib?

[Bennie1486]

Thank you all for your posts - so helpful - am very grateful for you taking the time to reply.

 

I have spoken to family members who have offered to help me - so far I have £2,000. The only real thing of value that I have is my Great Grandmother's eternity ring which I think I may be able to get around £1,500 for, is devastating to even think of giving this up but if needs be then I must live with that. So that's £3,500 - does anyone think that would be acceptable to offer as full and final settlement?

 

I have just spoken to the MIB - wow what a telephone conversation!!! Driven to tears by the woman in charge of my case - I have never ever heard of her before. Most definitely treating me as a criminal - no manners, aggressive, unhelpful and being placed on hold without any notice and then left on hold. I asked for a Manager and was told that was not an option!

 

Being told they sent a letter on 21/10/2010 - I never received a letter. Then being told I made a phone call to them in March 2012 - I asked for proof of this phone call. The reply "well no it was over a year ago now". I explained the claimant was my best friend and therefore easily had my address and date of birth so requested for a recording of the phone call and what was said - I was placed on hold.

 

When I asked if there was a procedure that MIB are meant to follow when it comes to keeping me up to date on the progress of the case - I was put on hold (without being informed) for over 5 minutes and when my case holder returned her reply "just contact Geoffrey Leaver to sort out a payment plan"

 

I then repeated myself and asked her again if MIB has a procedure for keeping me up to date on the progress of the claim - her response was that this case would have to be passed to her Manager on Monday and I will receive a call back then.

 

My questions:

Should the MIB have a procedure in place for notifying me?

I have obviously signed nothing - does this matter?

Should I have known the person in charge of my case?

I have received nothing in writing from them - does this matter?

Should I have been allowed to defend myself - I am sure I could of had some interesting information with regards to whatever she claimed?

 

I have also spoken to the collecting agents - Geoffrey Leaver and they confirmed the case was passed to them on 13/09/13. I am just amazed that I'm this day and age that a bill of £37k can fall on my doorstep without any knowledge or progression reported to me. I may have then been able to have saved money over the last 3 years to have had more of a chance of meeting the demands they made - or even the chance to defend myself and I may have been able to reduce the amount that the claimant received.

[andydd]

Hang on a minute. Lets rewind.

 

You were involved in a accident and convicted of careless driving and no insurance.

 

Right, but where does the £37K come from ? A claim by MIB for uninsured losses and a claim from your friend, either way surely there should of been a civil court claim, did you know nothing about that ?

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

Stay off the phone, as there is little point in phoning them. They MIB is basically there to deal with cases where there was no Insurance in place and they have to try to recover as much as they can from the responsible party.

 

Keep matters in writing only. If you want to make a full & final settlement offer, then write to Geoffrey Leaver. The letter is something like the following (but add some details of your personal circumstances).

 

Without Predjudice

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Account Number:

 

I write with reference to the money which you are claiming on the above account.

 

I can confirm that I am unable to offer to pay the money which you claim I owe. However, I can raise £XX from family and I want to offer this as an ex−gratia payment in full and final settlement. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you, MIB, nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released from any liability.

 

I also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on all relevant data records relating to to this matter as "satisfied" in full.

 

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment.

 

I look forward to receiving your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

[unclebulgaria67]

Hang on a minute. Lets rewind.

 

You were involved in a accident and convicted of careless driving and no insurance.

 

Right, but where does the £37K come from ? A claim by MIB for uninsured losses and a claim from your friend, either way surely there should of been a civil court claim, did you know nothing about that ?

 

Andy

 

I agree that the MIB must provide more details as where the figure of £37k comes from. But is it worth seeing if a smallish F&F offer is accepted first of all ?

[andydd]

Do MIB have to start a court claim or can they just say the costs are 37K and go after the person w/o insurance ?.

[Bennie1486]

Hang on a minute. Lets rewind.

 

You were involved in a accident and convicted of careless driving and no insurance.

 

Right, but where does the £37K come from ? A claim by MIB for uninsured losses and a claim from your friend, either way surely there should of been a civil court claim, did you know nothing about that ?

 

Andy

 

Thanks for your comment Andy - I was cautioned with driving with no due care and negligence at the scene of the accident. A week later I received a letter from the Police stating that my car was not insured as originally believed - my ex partner had let the direct debit bounce without informing me. I then went to court and the magistrate dropped the driving with no due care and negligence as from the evidence given by me and the other driver - it was clear it was an apparent insurance job. The magistrate was very nice and understanding and explained she HAD to charge me with driving with no insurance although but gave me the minimum she was allowed which was 6 points and a £200 fine.

 

In the accident - me and my son walked away with whiplash and bruises, my passenger (my friend at the time) broke her collar bone and the other driver was also fine with no broken bones just whiplash.

 

I was not made aware of any civil court claim etc. Even when I contacted the MIB today - I had never heard of the woman who was in charge of my case - I didn't even know there was a case! I'm obviously not friends with the passenger anymore so didn't know whether she went ahead with it or not. But I always presumed I would have been informed somewhere along the line especially before a demand for £37k came to my front door.

[unclebulgaria67]

Do MIB have to start a court claim or can they just say the costs are 37K and go after the person w/o insurance ?.

 

I don't think there has to be a court claim for the MIB to payout to people who have suffered a loss due to the fault of an uninsured driver.

 

The MIB solicitors will write to the uninsured driver to see if they can reach an agreement, but they will issue court claims if necessary.

 

I am sure that I have read of people negotiating a reduced settlement with MIB, because the MIB are reluctant to get a CCJ, where the defendent is only ever likely to pay very low monthly payments. Most people are uninsured, because they could not afford the Insurance. It therefore follows that most will not be able to pay the CCJ amount and will only offer token payments.

[theuprightman]

Before you pay anything get a breakdown of what's what.

 

Is there any interest charges etc.

 

It's highly unlikely leavers or the mib will issue without having the chance to recover the outlay.

 

If there was a court case then you'll have been named as co defendant.

 

Also did you ever sign any thing when the mib agent visited you?

[andydd]

Whats to stop MIB issuing totally unreasonably high deamnds ?. or can they ?. but they are totally unenforceable with a court case ?

 

If it were me, I'd think I'd wait till a court judgment as you may be able to show the amount is too high and/or that you can only pay £xx a month.

 

As it stands surely its just MIB asking for money but with no legal clout to actuall obtain it ?

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

Whats to stop MIB issuing totally unreasonably high deamnds ?. or can they ?. but they are totally unenforceable with a court case ?

 

If it were me, I'd think I'd wait till a court judgment as you may be able to show the amount is too high and/or that you can only pay £xx a month.

 

As it stands surely its just MIB asking for money but with no legal clout to actuall obtain it ?

 

Andy

 

The MIB are the official body to collect monies owed by uninsured drivers. The amount they have asked for would be the amount paid out, plus all the costs incurred.

 

http://www.mib.org.uk/Frequently+Asked+Questions/en/Default.htm

 

Personally if I were in this situation, I would try with an F&F offer first. If this does not work, then it is a case of asking for a full breakdown of the £37k and then seeing what agreement can be reached. I am not sure I would wait to be taken to court.

[Surfer01]

I think we need to go back to the beginning before offering any advice. Who took out the insurance policy and who was named as the main driver? In whose name was the car registered at the time? In any was done by you and insurance only in your name, sadly you may be responsible as responsibility for insurance is with yourself.

On no account admit any liability until you have had advice from CAB or a professional solicitor. If there is no chance of you paying off this huge debt, it may be worth considering bankruptcy which will remove the debt and they can no longer chase you for it, but again professional advice is required. Also refuse to discuss it any further with MIB until they have supplied you with a breakdown of costs and keep everything in writing. No more phone calls!

[theuprightman]

Bankruptcy is pointless. Personal injury element of the debt.

[unclebulgaria67]

Bankruptcy is pointless. Personal injury element of the debt.

 

I am not sure Surfer has read all the info in the thread. The OP works in accountancy and is a mother of a young child. I am not sure they have considered the impact of bankruptcy on the OP's life. They are also looking to buy a house at some point in the future. Bankruptcy would have a severe impact on their career and house buying wishes.

 

This is why I have suggested a small F&F offer to see if they can get shot of this debt. If the Solicitors acting for MIB realise that the OP has no assets and has little income after expenses to offer regular payments, then they may be willing to accept the F&F offer. This is better for the MIB, then getting say £20 a month and the hassle of continued admin.