ESA stopped now on JSA back to ESA?

[crownchakra]

Hey all, new here so apologies if this is in the wrong place, please feel free to move it if required.

 

Basically I was claiming ESA up to the end of may 2013 (my GP was providing monthly sick notes for me). After failing the ATOS medical my ESA was stopped. So I decided to claim JSA (jobseekers allowance) from June 2013 and am currently signing on fortnightly/weekly - as/when they call me in which is always on random days/times.

 

My question is am i able to come off JSA and go back onto ESA for the same condition ? Or would it have to be a new condition? Is there any period of time I must wait after cancelling my JSA before applying for ESA or can i do so straight away ?

 

Any advice/help gratefully appreciated, Thank you in advance

[sillygirl1]

No, you can go back on for the same condition (AFAIK), did you appeal the ATOS decision, over 70% have been found to be wrong.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'll move your thread to the main benefits forum; this one is for matters relating to Atos. The guys should be along later.

 

My best, HB

[crownchakra]

Hi and thanks both for the replies

 

I considered appealing, however at the time had alot going on so never got round to doing so

 

So am i right in saying I don't have to wait one month to 6 months etc after stopping claiming JSA and i can go immediately onto ESA ?

 

Obviously I presume I would need to go see my GP initially prior to applying for ESA also ?

 

Thanks again for any advice/help received

[sillygirl1]

It might not be worth it, my GP doesn't think much of the ATOS assessments (nor does my consultant) and they both won't do letters to them as they are completely ignored - it is as if ATOS's decision is far better than a learned professional who sees you on a more regular basis!

 

Just got my ATOS form in the post today, so will be filling it in over the weekend with help from my nephew who deals with them a lot.

[crownchakra]

P.s. I've only been claiming JSA since JUNE 2013 and my personal adviser - she is a nightmare and I always leave the jobcentre after seeing her feeling very anxious, demoralised and demotivated. It's like i'm 5 steps up and being knocked right back down . I only had a 'personal adviser interview' with her 4 days ago where she made an appointment for this tuesday to see her again - this is one week later, plus my usual signing on a few days after that...So from fortnightly she has requested to see me weekly...I just don't get how/why they would do this as I have complied with everything they have asked including each of the jobseekers agreements she has given to me after changing them numerous ie, 4-5 times...It's strange and has left me feeling very stressed, not doing my health no good I honestly feel.

 

All these issues I have raised with them and made them aware of... I also have spoken to this advisers manager, who was not very helpful at all and refused my request of changing personal advisers given the circumstances...however, I did request and obtain her manager (the district managers details)...So I have the wheels in motion and the notes on their systems should reflect this (accuracy questionable as I have learned from experience already!) I just don't like this feeling of dreading entering the job centre to sign on and mainly cos of the adviser.

[**Margaret**]

:crownchakra:

 

If your doctor will write Med 3 (unfit) notes you can reclaim employment n support for the same condition from six months after the date of the decision that you didn't have limited capability for work. And be paid at assessment rate, subject to other income and time limiting for a contributions based award. Within six months you can claim, but can't be paid pending a work capability assessment unless your condition's significantly worse or you've a new condition.

 

Criteria for an award of employment n support at;

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

(pages 10 - 12 and 17 - 27)

 

Takes a few days for Jobcentreplus to close a claim for jobseekers after someone's signed off, and you can't have two live claims at the same time. But if you're covered by a Med 3 you can backdate a claim for employment n support so you don't have to serve waiting days.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[crownchakra]

Thanks for all replies

 

I'm pretty sure it's been 6 months now from the decision makers decision that I am not entitled to ESA.

So what would you recommend by my next first step ie, claim for the same condition because I feel it's slightly worser (insomnia and flashbacks on top of what i already was going through) ? Plus considering I am signing on JSA at present and have an interview with the personal advisor tomorrow, which i really don't feel comfortable with attending given what's happened previously...

 

Thanks again, this is all just so confusing and jobcentre staff don't seem to give a straight answer!

[sillygirl1]

Go to http://www.entitled2.co.uk or turn2us (can't remember their web address) and check on there, then take the paperwork down and ask to be seen by somebody different.

 

When you go to sign on tomorrow take a complaint down about your adviser and hand it into one of the people at the front desk of the jobcentre and address it to the Jobcentre Manager.

 

Don't give it to the adviser. Tell the adviser you are not happy and that you need to see somebody else, if she refuses then you can back up your complaint on the way out.

 

Copy the complaint to your local MP - that way they will be more likely to do something about it.

 

I had a similar experience when I first signed on, had some young thing trying to get me on a work experience course when I pointed out that I already had a load of qualifications in that area.... I did the complaint method listed above and ended up with a much better older adviser who basically didn't pester me as the younger one did.

[**Margaret**]

:crownchakra:

 

First off, you need to find that decision notice and check the date on it.

 

If you can, I'd recommend coping with jobseekers for a few more weeks until you know it's six months, which from a decision in May gets you to a date in November from when, subject to the usual conditions Jobcentreplus can pay assessment rate.

 

If you apply now, you're unlikely to get assessment rate cos it's hard to convince Jobcentreplus of a worsening condition. Also, for an application within six months, it's a grey area (not covered in legislation so far as we can find) as to whether Jobcentreplus should pay assessment rate from six months after disallowance or wait for a determination, possibly via Atos, on capability for work.

 

In themselves, neither insomnia nor flashbacks lead to limited capability for work. Current criteria for an award of employment n support can be found at;

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

(pages 10 -12 and 17 - 27)

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited October 7, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Conniff]

ESA is for those with an illness or disability that affects their ability to work.

 

JSA means you are fit and actively seeking work.

 

If you and your GP feel you are not able to work, then you should appeal. You won't get ESA while you are claiming JSA and the longer you are on it the less likely you are to qualify for ESA.

 

The problem with GP's is that they really aren't in a position to decide if you are capable of work or not and their reports are taken with a pinch of salt. GP's usually go by what

their patients tell them as they don't have the time to fully assess a person capability.

[crownchakra]

OMG i feel even worse now. Just had my jobcentre appointment with my 'personal advisor' and her manager who was suppposed to sit in was not available so it was just me and her... I feel even more anxious and so demotivated i can't put it into words, i feel so crappy and i don't know what to do. She has arranged for me to do a dummy interview next week when i sign on. It feels as if she wants me to storm out of the building so that she can sanction me, provocation after provocation and she is doing a sly job of it.

 

I honestly dont feel helped one single bit and never have done by her, yet her colleagues are so much nicer all around and have a more calmer approach. My advisor is treating me harsh and i really dont know where to go from here

 

The psychologist whom i used to see some months ago while claiming ESA has said during our previous session that he is more than happy to see me within 6 months of my last session with him. So i've rang and am awaiting a callback from him to arrange this.

 

Would this help me at all if insomnia and flashbacks are not covered in the ESA criteria ?

[crownchakra]

P.s. just remembered one of the things i was on ESA for was PTS syndrome (post traumatic stress) which resulted after a car accident (where i broke several bones in my upper body)

 

If i do go see my GP then i've a feeling he will sign me off, i'm just unsure which way to proceed with this though

 

And just want to say THANK YOU ALL so much for the guidance, i dont know where i would be without this , it means the world to me THANK YOU

[crownchakra]

Hi sillygirl1, Ive looked at both those links and unable to locate any form to fill out for changing advisors ?

[crownchakra]

starryeyes52

 

Hi the date they wrote to advising my ESA will stop is the 2/5/13 so am i right in saying the 2/11/13 i would be best to wait till before claiming ?

 

I could honestly do without all the JSA headache and stress when signing on, so am thinking to go see my GP tomorrow and hopefully the psychologist will also be in touch this afternoon so i can arrange that appointment too.

 

Not too sure what else i can do at the moment. So so so anxious it hurts , such a crap feeling

[**Margaret**]

:crownchakra:

 

Yes, if you can cope with the Jobcentre for a bit longer, the least problematic way to reclaim employment n support is to claim from six months after the last day you were paid it. May be the date on the letter or the letter may say you're not entitled from, for example, 6 May 13 so you'd reclaim from 6 Novenber 13.

 

In the meantime, so long as you haven't made a claim for employment n support, you can declare a period of sickness for up to fourteen days without losing your entitlement to jobseekers, by completing a JSA28 at the end of the fourteen days. If you get a 'doubt has arisen' letter it'll be covered by the JSA28, which doesn't need a Med 3 (unfit) note. JSA28 form from your Jobcentre or at;

 

http://whatdotheyknow.com/request/jsa28_and_being_sick_whilst_on_j#incoming-277832

 

Hopefully some more sessions with your psychologist will help you to cope with your post traumatic stress. And if he feels it appropriate he may write a supportive letter to send with your next ESA50. Insomnia and flashbacks that are a consequence of a specific mental illness (PTSD) will count towards employment n support if you're too tired to get out of bed or too frightened to leave home without a companion etcetera.

 

Try to get some , Margaret.

[crownchakra]

Hello starryeyes52 - Margaret

 

Much appreciate the time you've so far taken in replying to me so thank you very very much

 

- At the link you posted do i just need to fill the form in, what details of sickness would i need to provide or do i not have to provide any for 14 days ? Also just wondering if i filled in the JSA28 and took the 14 days off, would i after this 14 day period has lapsed just continue attending from my next signing on date ?

 

Quick question if you can help, any idea how i would go about changing my 'personal advisor' ?

 

I've searched and searched online but not having luck so far, will continue searching of course but just wondered if you have any indications as the jobcentre and the personal advisors 'manager' have flat out told me that they don't and won't...Surely there must be a way or something i can fill in no ?

 

Thanks once again ENjoy the rest of your weekend also x

[Nystagmite]

Quick question if you can help, any idea how i would go about changing my 'personal advisor' ?

 

Speak to the job centre.

[**Margaret**]

:crownchakra:

 

Right, there can't be more than three to four weeks left before you can reclaim, and be paid, employment n support allowance if your doctor's prepared to write Med 3 (unfit) notes.

 

Next time you can't face your adviser, contact your jobcentre to say that you can't make the appointment cos of PTSD or one of the other conditions you were in receipt of employment n support for. And ask them to send you a JSA28 form. After a few days return it (recorded delivery) with a guesstimate towards the end of a fourteen day period as to when you'll be able to resume jobseeking activities. JSA28s don't need a Med 3 (unfit/sick) note. Keep a copy of the form in case of queries!

 

If the fourteen ish days don't overrun when you'll be able to reclaim employment n support you'll have to resume jobseeking for a few days. Also, you'll need to close your claim for jobseekers before making a claim for employment n support cos the computer can't cope with two live claims at the same time.

 

All of the above is only relevant if, having looked at the criteria, you've definitely decided to reclaim employment n support. If there's a chance that a change of adviser might help you to find a job you can cope with, maybe you should consider that option first. Sorry, I haven't a clue about how to change an adviser but I'm sure others who read this will be able to help you further.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

Like I said. Thanx :Nystagmite:

 

From reading around CAG, changing a personal adviser is easier said than done cos the standard response from jobcentres seems to be 'you can't'. However, we've contributors to the site who've managed it, so hopefully they'll offer further advice.

Edited October 13, 2013 by **Margaret**

[antone]

It is indeed possible to change advisers, but JCP are not keen, presumably because they don't want half of their caseload claimants changing advisers every other week.

 

But if your relationship with the present adviser is unproductive (or, indeed, counterproductive) you should start by writing a polite letter to the manager of the Jobcentre. Explain the situation concisely and try your best not to rant about the person concerned. End the letter with a request to be reassigned to someone else.

 

You could also speak to the floor manager on duty (that's the person who stands at the desk next to the entrance) and explain your issues, but I know that not everyone relishes those sorts of conversations. Also, it's easier not to let your anger show if you have time to write down your concerns.

[crownchakra]

Good afternoon and hello to all those who advised and took time out of their lives to help me

 

Just thought it would be nice for me to update on the current situation ..Still the same personal advisor (she has changed her tune somewhat, and has been more helpful and understanding/co-operative) so all OK it would seem here.

 

I found the letter informing me my ESA had stopped and can confirm this was effective as of the 1/5/13. So today being the 11/11/13 its been over 6 months and so what I was unsure of is :

 

--- Do I just ring the job centre and close my JSA claim ? And then the following day apply over the telephone for ESA ?

--- See my doctor tomorrow and explain re-occurence of what i was signed off for initially (flashbacks, insomnia, anxiety, muscle pain etc) ?

--- I've managed to book an appointment to see the psychologist again so this is booked for next month already.

 

As always any help gratefully received and thank you very much in advance

 

xxx

[antone]

Do you have a "fit note" (med cert) from your doctor? You'll need this to make a new ESA claim, so don't close your JSA (and continue to attend all required JSA appointments) until you have it in hand.

 

Once you have it, yes, inform the Jobcentre that you wish to close your JSA claim and call to make a new ESA claim starting from the day after the last day of your JSA.

[Lilly_Monroe]

ESA is for those with an illness or disability that affects their ability to work.

 

JSA means you are fit and actively seeking work.

 

If you and your GP feel you are not able to work, then you should appeal. You won't get ESA while you are claiming JSA and the longer you are on it the less likely you are to qualify for ESA.

 

The problem with GP's is that they really aren't in a position to decide if you are capable of work or not and their reports are taken with a pinch of salt. GP's usually go by what

their patients tell them as they don't have the time to fully assess a person capability.

 

Can I please ask then - who is best to say whether you are fit for work or not.

I am left a bit confused by this.

[crownchakra]

antone thanx for the speedy reply

 

I'm planning on going to see my GP tomorrow to see what she says fairly certain she will sign me off but cannot be 100%.. Guess it depends on how well I can describe my health in proper terms, woouldn't want any misunderstandings/assumptions made, we know this field can be a little 'hazy' at times etc ...

 

Dread the docs so many sick people coughing and sneezing etc at this time of year, but will still go

 

Thanks again

[**Margaret**]

:crownchakra:

 

You survived! Well done you.

 

Before you do anything else, I'd look at the descriptors for an award of employment n support allowance. They're listed in the booklet that I linked to in #7. (Page numbers are slightly out cos we've just had a new version.)

 

Next, you need to see your doctor to check that she agrees you're unfit for work and will write a Med 3 (unfit) note to support your claim for employment n support. That you need to go back to your psychologist should support your cause.

 

There should be a form among your jobseekers paperwork, that you can complete and hand into the Jobcentre to close your claim. You don't have to give a reason. Once you've done that the new claims number is 08000 556688, or if you prefer paper;

 

https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/how-to-claim

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited November 11, 2013 by **Margaret**