depressed court papers

[chlodella]

I hope this is the right place to post this. Ok im a disabled lady who hired a small cleaning firm in each week to help with my domestic cleaning, ironing, hovering ,dusting etc. Anyway because of my condition and anxiety it was agreed they would send in a regular lady who I was happy and familiar with.

 

The problems started when I was moved to a adapted bungalow suitable for my disabilities' but in a village further away an more remote than previously living, the lady used didn't want to travel so far and was unhappy with the firm anyway so left there employment after this things went down hill fast and consequently this is where all my problems started my ironing was being done, but

nothing

on the domestic side the house was how we (my husband is my fulltime carer) left it.

 

I wasn't happy with this but allowed them a few weeks to get themselves together, they

never did.

Different cleaners who I was unfamiliar with arrived, not as our agreement for my needs and I think they must have just ironed an sat on my settee for the rest of the 3hr or so allotted as nothing else was touched, in fact on one day they sent the husband of the owner to do my cleaning, he was refused his services by my husband at the front door, the owner was again reminded I need a cleaner I was happy an familiar with as per my condition and our agreement and certainly not a man with no experience.

 

The cleaning was supposed to be done on a tues ironing an Friday cleaning, the problem is they think they can get way charging me for cleaning on a Friday because I was always out attending my regular weekly social activities. of course I refuse to pay for the work not done in fact I have not paid them anything as they where invoicing for work not done.

 

They also had without my permission my house keys cut and gave them out without my knowledge to there said cleaners. I am not prepared to be bullied by them to pay for some thing I consider wasn't done and consequently after home visit late in the evening with no resolve I have received a form from Northampton cbbc asking for £608 its making me poorly the stress of all this im totally out of my depth and don't know what to do or how to complete the defence form let alone how to compile my side of all this.

 

I have acknowledged the service of said documents an indicated I wish to defend but I need some help how or what I should do now an how to word things. Im very disabled an in a wheelchair so I think they see me as a easy target thinking I wont do anything because physically an mentally its difficult for me.

 

please, please help me someone im so fraught with all this. thank you I should have said earlier in case it matters to my defence that there services where via a verbal agreememt nothing signed on paper the only thing they put on paper was a tick chart left at mine indicating jobs alleged done.

 

i need some help feeling very depressed, worthless and worried don't know where to turn, thank you all in advance for any help or advice given.

Edited August 18, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[citizenB]

Righto.. can you let us know what the date of issue of the claim is - you will find this in the top right hand corner of the claim form. That way we will have an idea of the timeline you need to adhere to.

 

Can you also let us know exactly what it says on the claim form - the reason they are issuing the claim against you.

 

That way we can help you draft a defence.

 

Please try not to worry - I realise this is probably quite scary, but you have recognised that this company is trying to bully you.. and that is what CAG is about..helping you to stand up to them

[renegadeimp]

Hi. Try not to worry. It's obvious you are dealing with either a con company, or a company that is being conned by an employee. Hang tight and someone should be able to give you specific advice

[lutin]

The people on here are very supportive and I am sure you will get some very good advice.i know I have.Keep your chin up x

[chlodella]

Righto.. can you let us know what the date of issue of the claim is - you will find this in the top right hand corner of the claim form. That way we will have an idea of the timeline you need to adhere to.

 

Can you also let us know exactly what it says on the claim form - the reason they are issuing the claim against you.

 

That way we can help you draft a defence.

 

Please try not to worry - I realise this is probably quite scary, but you have recognised that this company is trying to bully you.. and that is what CAG is about..helping you to stand up to them

 

Ok here goes;

issue date was ist august but I acknowledged service and it extended to 28days I think?

 

on the claim form is;

my company has provided domestic services for Mrs##### for some time and initially after satisfactorily paying for same Mrs ##### has fallen behind despite our making strenuous efforts(bulling they mean:mad2:) to help with various suggested ways of paying. these entreaties have been ignored and indeed short shrift given to all my approaches resulting in this action.

the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 03/06/2013 to 31/07/2013 on #542.00 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of #6.89.

 

 

 

Please can you help me compile a defence against this I am so lost and so stressed with worry and would be forever graceful in any way you can help to deal with this, no default notice was sent to me or any communication to try and resolve save for them coming to my house late as mentioned and shouting:jaw: the odds. We have had one key returned via snail mail and it isn't the original but one of the keys they obviously had cut at Timsons.

 

Thank you so much for any help received x

Edited August 19, 2013 by chlodella
forgot a bit

[citizenB]

There will have been no need for a default notice because this is not a credit agreement covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

They should however, at least have written to you and prior to the court claim having been issued, they should have sent you a Letter before Action.

 

Have you had your locks changed ?

 

 

 

Ok.. your time line is..

 

Issue date 1st August + 5 days for service = 6th August + 14 days to acknowledge (which you have already done) = 20th August + 14 days to submit defence = 3rd September.

 

You have plenty of time so don't panic ! I will find someone to advise further and help put together a defence.

 

All helpers are volunteers so most of them have day jobs and will not be around until evening time.. so don't worry if you don't get a response today.

[chlodella]

Thank you all so much:-) As i said im very worried and stressed but happier now I have some help/advice from people who understand

 

No there was no letter of pending action and I haven't changed the locks yet as funds are low. so I feel very vunerable and utterly miserable about all this tbh.

[chlodella]

The people on here are very supportive and I am sure you will get some very good advice.i know I have.Keep your chin up x

 

Thank you:-)

[chlodella]

Hi. Try not to worry. It's obvious you are dealing with either a con company, or a company that is being conned by an employee. Hang tight and someone should be able to give you specific advice

 

Yes I definstley think so, they are not going to bully me into anything, I have help from you guys now:-)

[Mike_hawk]

How much of the stated sum do you dispute?

 

Have you put it under notice that you require all keys returned or you will counter claim costs of securing your property?

[steampowered]

I think it is very important to differentiate between (1) them not sending the correct people and (2) them not doing the work. I think item (2) is more likely to stand up in court.

 

It would really help if you can clarify what you mean when you say they didn't do the work on Fridays - did they just not turn up, or did the cleaner not do any work? Does the invoice relate to Fridays or does it relate to Tuesdays too?

[The Mould]

“I think it is very important to differentiate between (1) themnot sending the correct people and (2) them not doing the work. I think item(2) is more likely to stand up in court”.

With respect, I disagree with thiscontention. The op has clearly stated that under a verbal agreement with thecompany, (it is irrelevant whether Co.is Ltd or trading as) a consensus adidem to the conditions of the contract was agreed (agreement to the same thing)was verbally agreed between these two parties, namely 1) that it was agreedbetween the parties that, due to the op’s condition and anxiety disorder, thata regular lady whom the op was happy and familiar with, would attend her property andundertake the work agreed with the company, the said work agreed as being domestic cleaning, specifically it wasagreed verbally with the Claimant that such would be a) ironing of mine andhusbands’ clothing and b) cleaning of our home by way of hovering and dustingetc by said employee of the Claimant pursuant to condition 1 (above).

Given the problems described here by theop, after she was moved to a “adaptedbungalow suitable for my disabilities”, “in a village further away and moreremote than previous living” , it isclear that the regular lady used by the company (as agreed between the op andCo) did not wish to travel further than that to which she was used/agreed to;this lady subsequently left the cleaning Co., thereafter, the op encounteredproblems with this cleaning Co, whereby notwithstanding that the ironing wasbeing done, nothing on the cleaning side of the agreement was being undertakenas per the said verbal agreement.

The op was unhappy with this clear breachof the agreement, but she gave the cleaning Co. a chance to get themselves together and bring thematter back under control as per the original verbal agreement. Unfortunately the cleaning Co. failed tohonour its agreement under the same, different cleaners were sent, which is aclear breach of the condition 1 (above) and the op asserts that no cleaning of the property was ever undertakenthereafter, which is a fundamental breach of condition b) (as above).

Notwithstanding the op’s protests asregards the said verbal agreement entered into with the Cleaning Co. theCleaning Co. (based on the matters posted here, which I believe) the cleaningCo. remained in fundamental breach of its obligations under said verbalagreement. Therefore, it is my opinion,that op has a complete Defence against this claim on grounds of fundamentalbreach of contract by the Cleaning Co.

I don’t believe that cleaning Co. couldclaim damages on the grounds of partial performance as the op states; “I wasn't happy with this but allowed them afew weeks to get themselves together, they never did. Different cleanerswho I was unfamiliar with arrived, not as our agreement for my needs and Ithink they must have just ironed an sat on my settee for the rest of the 3hr orso allotted as nothing else was touched, in fact on one day they sent thehusband of the owner to do my cleaning, he was refused his services by myhusband at the front door, the owner was again reminded I need a cleaner I washappy an familiar with as per my condition and our agreement and certainly nota man with no experience”.

Kind regards

The Mould

[caro]

Ok here goes;

issue date was ist august but I acknowledged service and it extended to 28days I think?

 

on the claim form is;

my company has provided domestic services for Mrs##### for some time and initially after satisfactorily paying for same Mrs ##### has fallen behind despite our making strenuous efforts(bulling they mean:mad2:) to help with various suggested ways of paying. these entreaties have been ignored and indeed short shrift given to all my approaches resulting in this action.

the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 03/06/2013 to 31/07/2013 on #542.00 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of #6.89.

 

 

 

Please can you help me compile a defence against this I am so lost and so stressed with worry and would be forever graceful in any way you can help to deal with this, no default notice was sent to me or any communication to try and resolve save for them coming to my house late as mentioned and shouting:jaw: the odds. We have had one key returned via snail mail and it isn't the original but one of the keys they obviously had cut at Timsons.

 

Thank you so much for any help received x

 

Are the figures meant to be £542.00 and £6.89 daily? If so the daily interest rate is completely wrong.

[steampowered]

Hi Mould

 

You raise an interesting point, and I broadly agree with your analysis. I guess it is no more difficult to prove the terms of an oral contract than it is to prove whether someone attended the property on a given day to clean. These are both issues which should be pursued and would be decided by the judge on a balance of probabilities after hearing from both sides.

 

Just one point to bear in mind. I can certainly see your argument that the company is in fundamental breach of contract due to sending the wrong people. The remedies for fundamental breach of contract are (1) to terminate the contract and (2) to claim damages. The Op would not automatically escape liability for the price of services rendered. She could offset any damages awarded but damages might be small since I can't see any quantifiable economic loss here. On this argument alone I think Op might struggle to completely avoid liability ... hence important to consider both angles.

[The Mould]

“Hi Mould

 

You raise an interesting point, and I broadly agree with your analysis. I guessit is no more difficult to prove the terms of an oral contract than it is toprove whether someone attended the property on a given day to clean. These areboth issues which should be pursued and would be decided by the judge on abalance of probabilities after hearing from both sides.

 

Just one point to bear in mind. I can certainly see your argument that thecompany is in fundamental breach of contract due to sending the wrong people.The remedies for fundamental breach of contract are (1) to terminate thecontract and (2) to claim damages. The Op would not automatically escapeliability for the price of services rendered. She could offset any damagesawarded but damages might be small since I can't see any quantifiable economicloss here. On this argument alone I think Op might struggle to completely avoidliability ... hence important to consider both angles.

Good evening Steampowered”

Equally, I agree with the points you raiseabove. The op clearly has a Defenceagainst this claim and it will be a matter for the Court to decide whatdamages, if any, it decides to award the Claimant, taking into account allcircumstances of the case. I wonder if Iam being a little forward here, but I guess that we both agree that the op isthe innocent party here, certainly the Court may well decide that the Claimanthas given partial performance of the said verbal agreement, but the question the Courtmust ask is, has that partial performance been performed in accordance with thepurpose to which this agreement was entered into, I believe the answer to beno, that is based on the material posted here by the op which is clearly postedwith conviction.

Ultimately, who will the Court believe,the op or the Cleaning Co. No disrespectis intended, but I would put my money on the Court accepting the op’s versionof this matter, after all, she protested to the other party as regards hisfailures and such conduct certainly did not affirm her acceptance of the samewhich clearly contravened their agreement.

Kind regards

The Mould

[chlodella]

“I think it is very important to differentiate between (1) themnot sending the correct people and (2) them not doing the work. I think item(2) is more likely to stand up in court”.

With respect, I disagree with thiscontention. The op has clearly stated that under a verbal agreement with thecompany, (it is irrelevant whether Co.is Ltd or trading as) a consensus adidem to the conditions of the contract was agreed (agreement to the same thing)was verbally agreed between these two parties, namely 1) that it was agreedbetween the parties that, due to the op’s condition and anxiety disorder, thata regular lady whom the op was happy and familiar with, would attend her property andundertake the work agreed with the company, the said work agreed as being domestic cleaning, specifically it wasagreed verbally with the Claimant that such would be a) ironing of mine andhusbands’ clothing and b) cleaning of our home by way of hovering and dustingetc by said employee of the Claimant pursuant to condition 1 (above).

 

 

Given the problems described here by theop, after she was moved to a “adaptedbungalow suitable for my disabilities”, “in a village further away and moreremote than previous living” , it isclear that the regular lady used by the company (as agreed between the op andCo) did not wish to travel further than that to which she was used/agreed to;this lady subsequently left the cleaning Co., thereafter, the op encounteredproblems with this cleaning Co, whereby notwithstanding that the ironing wasbeing done, nothing on the cleaning side of the agreement was being undertakenas per the said verbal agreement.

The op was unhappy with this clear breachof the agreement, but she gave the cleaning Co. a chance to get themselves together and bring thematter back under control as per the original verbal agreement. Unfortunately the cleaning Co. failed tohonour its agreement under the same, different cleaners were sent, which is aclear breach of the condition 1 (above) and the op asserts that no cleaning of the property was ever undertakenthereafter, which is a fundamental breach of condition b) (as above).

Notwithstanding the op’s protests asregards the said verbal agreement entered into with the Cleaning Co. theCleaning Co. (based on the matters posted here, which I believe) the cleaningCo. remained in fundamental breach of its obligations under said verbalagreement. Therefore, it is my opinion,that op has a complete Defence against this claim on grounds of fundamentalbreach of contract by the Cleaning Co.

I don’t believe that cleaning Co. couldclaim damages on the grounds of partial performance as the op states; “I wasn't happy with this but allowed them afew weeks to get themselves together, they never did. Different cleanerswho I was unfamiliar with arrived, not as our agreement for my needs and Ithink they must have just ironed an sat on my settee for the rest of the 3hr orso allotted as nothing else was touched, in fact on one day they sent thehusband of the owner to do my cleaning, he was refused his services by myhusband at the front door, the owner was again reminded I need a cleaner I washappy an familiar with as per my condition and our agreement and certainly nota man with no experience”.

Kind regards

The Mould

 

 

 

You got it perfectly a very clear summing up of my previous points x

[chlodella]

Are the figures meant to be £542.00 and £6.89 daily? If so the daily interest rate is completely wrong.

 

Ermm I typed as written on court papers so yes,

[chlodella]

Getting very confused (its not hard lol) I am going to bed:sleep: will sign on tomorrow. Will await further instruction many thanks:humble:

[Mike_hawk]

In short, there is a possibility it has failed to perform in contract... whether the court agrees is another matter.

 

A simpler option may be to put it under pressure by countering with cost (damages) for replacement locks etc. My previous question regarding the value of its claim (invoices for time) may assist you in making a decision on how best to defend.

[chlodella]

In short, there is a possibility it has failed to perform in contract... whether the court agrees is another matter.

 

A simpler option may be to put it under pressure by countering with cost (damages) for replacement locks etc. My previous question regarding the value of its claim (invoices for time) may assist you in making a decision on how best to defend.

 

I'm really embarrassed here, can you expain it again more basically.sorry about this I have memory proessing abilities or cognitive problems my neurologist calls it cog fog lol Again many Iwould like to start on a helped defence but just honestly ddon't understand an how to or where begin...

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Chlodella

 

Not a problem, I'm sure with the help of sp and mould we can work through the details a little at a time.

 

I believe the mould is looking at possible relief due to the claimants breach of contract, ie; you requested x and it provided y....... although I'm not altogether sure it [the cleaners] wouldn't be allowed some relief for partial performance. Whatever you think of it and its actions it still provided a service in carrying out some ironing duties and the court may allow a proportion of the damages claimed in respect of the work it carried out regardless of the strength of your defence.

 

 

There are quite a few questions below but I'm sure it will be of assistance later if you can work your way through each of them to the best of your recollection

 

 

1. Did you ever feel that you were placed under duress at any time to accept its 'substandard' service?

 

2. Did you ever reject its services [apart from the instance previously mentioned]?

 

3. Did it ever allow itself into your property without your authority and charge for services as a result?

 

4. Service contract..... did you ever into a written contract or were the terms of its [the cleaners] service all discussed over the phone or face to face with rates and conditions agreed verbally?

 

5. A list of the dates of each service appointment now in dispute and terms for payment [immediate/ 7days from invoice/ 15th of following month etc etc]

 

6. The invoice values for 5. above

 

7. Current home..... is it owned or provided by social housing? If the latter would you or the housing provider be responsible for securing the property [change of locks]?

[chlodella]

Well would you agree countering with costs maybe is the way to go? and can would you assist x How do I find out value to claim? sorry tba pain folks:oops:

[Mike_hawk]

Well would you agree countering with costs maybe is the way to go? and can would you assist x How do I find out value to claim? sorry tba pain folks:oops:

 

Not sure its possible to answer without a response to the list of questions.

 

If you aren't responsible for the locks to your home and no damage [financial loss/cost] has been incurred by you it won't be possible to use the argument.

[chlodella]

Sp sorry didnt see questions will Awnser tomorrow. Bungalow is adapted for my needs and is let from council

[chlodella]

Question responses for previous kind help offered by Mike_hawk

 

I believe the mould is looking at possible relief due to the claimants breach of contract, ie; you requested x and it provided y....... although I'm not altogether sure it [the cleaners] wouldn't be allowed some relief for partial performance. Whatever you think of it and its actions it still provided a service in carrying out some ironing duties and the court may allow a proportion of the damages claimed in respect of the work it carried out regardless of the strength of your defence.

 

 

There are quite a few questions below but I'm sure it will be of assistance later if you can work your way through each of them to the best of your recollection

 

 

1. Did you ever feel that you were placed under duress at any time to accept its 'substandard' service?----yes

 

2. Did you ever reject its services [apart from the instance previously mentioned]?---- yes over the phone and when they called late as mentioned

 

3. Did it ever allow itself into your property without your authority and charge for services as a result?----- not to my knowledge

 

4. Service contract..... did you ever into a written contract or were the terms of its [the cleaners] service all discussed over the phone or face to face with rates and conditions agreed verbally?--no contract purely verbal no conditions

 

5. A list of the dates of each service appointment now in dispute and terms for payment [immediate/ 7days from invoice/ 15th of following month etc etc]---non sent to me no just court papers

 

6. The invoice values for 5. above==== no invoice received

 

7. Current home..... is it owned or provided by social housing? If the latter would you or the housing provider be responsible for securing the property [change of locks]?-----social housing I would be I think.