compliance officer visit... again.

[charlotto]

hi im just hoping to get some advice abit of a long un but will try to make it as quick as poss

 

so i split with my ex about 18 months ago things just wasnt working out and he moved into his own house ( he pays rent council tax and all bills at his own address and works full time) for a long time afterward we dint really get on but he came to see the kids at mine regulary and have them every other weekend at his. i had a letter about 4 months ago of compliance team i rang them up to find out what the problem was and she said about ex partner living with me (at that point we wasnt even hardly talking) anyway it all got dropped and she said there was enough to say where he lived and had no visit in the end then i got another letter a month later and rang up again this time was told there was a cross over and that it was sorted. and case closed.

about 2 months ago me n the ex had a really long talk and have suggested getting back together but at this moment even now we aint together we have been spending a sunday together as a family and he still comes to see the kids 2 nites during the week etc he has stayed over approx 3 times in the last 2 months but thats it.anyway a month ago i got another compliance letter again i rang up and asked what was what they was asking all sorts of questions about my ex. i was open and honest and said that if we got together n he was to move in id inform them told them when he came etc. he then said that there was enough to suggest he lived at his own house but that its coz he is an ex partner. anyway yet again he made his report and that he wudnt be coming out to visit and wud again make sure the case was closed. so we just carried on sunday and 2/3 nites a week visits (but no stopping over always gone by 9pm)... again he doesnt stay over its like once every 3 weeks so since last letter he stayed over once. i then this morning got another letter saying a compliance officer wants to visit im at my wits end its every month at the mo...ive got through to the man today and he said he is investigating a claim of fraud he wasnt intrested in anything i had to ask and he made me real upset with his mannor he said someone has reported us living together. he wasnt very nice on the phone at all and seems he had already made a judgement stressed out now any advice or expirances wud be great thanks x

 

is there anything stating you cant get back with an ex partner?? at the min we are no were near the point of living together and we have not decided to get back together eaither it just seems for some reason im been harrased by the compliance team and i dont really get why? any help wud be greatful x

[filrobbo]

Where is this compliance officer from.

[charlotto]

he is from my local job centre compliance team

[filrobbo]

Or ok so why are they saying its fraud by the way you don't have to tell them any thing it's up to them to prove it so be carful what you say

[charlotto]

i dont no tbh i rang to see why yet again i had had another letter of a visit and he said that someone had reported me to them for fraud of benefits and that he wasnt intrested and would be making the visit. tbh ive always been honest that he comes to see the kids 2 nites a week but that he never stays or hardly in 18 months he has stayed 4 times. i was thinking of going to the cab to seek advice since this is the 5th letter of vist. he is the only one to dismiss me and talk to me like utter poo. im worried that he is gunna be bullying or intimading when he comes round just by the mannor on the phone. my ex can provide all details of his own house which he pays full rent council tax and bills

[filrobbo]

Like I said they have to prove it so don't let them push you into admitting any thing let them prove it.

[charlotto]

so what do i say to questions he asks? he said that they could of been watching me etc. im not concerned as he doesnt stay but we do go out on a sunday x

[jabba jones]

Or ok so why are they saying its fraud by the way you don't have to tell them any thing it's up to them to prove it so be carful what you say

 

It might be helpful if you understood who Compliance are before giving advice like that. They are not the fraud section.

 

They are not looking to prove anything. They are there to check the benefit award is correct. They then get a signed statement listing the current circumstances (including a denial of the allegation) & making sure the claimant understands the rules should those circumstances change.

[jabba jones]

i was thinking of going to the cab to seek advice since this is the 5th letter of vist.

 

One of the many things Compliance do is deal with allegations that have been looked at by FIS & downgraded. They do not investigate cases.

 

This is the minimum that happens when an allegation is received where benefit is still in payment.

 

So I'm afraid there is not a lot you can do about it, because every time an allegation is made the chances are Compliance are going to contact you. This is not necessarily a bad thing though because it does suggest that there is little evidence & FIS are not interested in investigating you any further at the moment.

[charlotto]

normally it gets cased closed when i ring up however this time was different and he was rude and abrupt i have no reson for him not to come and can come any time of day nite. my question is am i not allowed to get back with my childrens dad? as this seems to be the whole reason for these letters

[jabba jones]

this time was different and he was rude and abrupt i have no reson for him not to come and can come any time of day nite.

 

I've worked with some very officious staff who don't realise how they come across. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's no excuse but also sometimes when you keep getting multiple allegations against the same person, you begin to think there might be something in it.

 

my question is am i not allowed to get back with my childrens dad? as this seems to be the whole reason for these letters

 

Of course you can. Just make sure the addresses are kept separate, with nothing officially linking you to each others properties & keep ALL finances separate until you are ready to take the next step. Then declare it!

[filrobbo]

Or sorry there just been nosy then ok still tellem nowt

[charlotto]

he has his house....own rent council tax and bills and cudnt financially support me (as in 2 houses). we dont have any bank account etc together altho we have a DMP in joint names as its all previous debt which i have told them and they said they wouldnt take that into account as debt is in both names. he pays his maintance all properly... ive been reading some posts and its scared me as it says if you go out for days out or eat take aways they can do you for that? i honestly didnt think that would be classed as benefit fraud?

 

we had a very ropey split but only now are disgussing the possibilties of getting back together, but its not even at the stage of staying over regulary etc all this added stress doesnt help but i dont want to move straight back in and find in 2 months hes walked again.

 

i have an idea that it cud be my next door as a few months ago i asked our landlord to have a word about playing music all hours. he does come to my house but again i dint think i was doing out wrong aslong as he dint stay and pay for stuff x

 

thanks for ur help so far

[charlotto]

can anyone offer any advice on the last questions please

[antone]

can anyone offer any advice on the last questions please

 

It's not fraud if you just share the odd meal with someone, or go for an occasional day out. The question is whether a couple are "Living Together as Husband and Wife", and that term is not strictly defined in law. Because of this, the DWP/council will use what is intended to be the ordinary, everyday meaning of "couple". Do you share living space? Do you share finances? Do you share care duties for your children? Would people around you see you as a couple? Now it's not that any single one of those things makes you a "couple"; it's more a case of the balance of the evidence.

 

Now from what you've said, you don't appear to be a couple and the fact that Compliance are dealing with this (and not the Fraud Investigation Service) suggests that even though an allegation may have been made against you, they're not taking it all that seriously. Of course, as mentioned by jabba jones, if you do get back together, be sure to declare that ASAP to make sure you're covered.

[charlotto]

thanks very much, no we dont share living space as in he doesnt live with me or stay over night. he does come to my house 3 times a week for a couple of hours as i say we wud have a long way to go before we got back together. we go out for the day every other sunday to try and build on what we feel and to spend time together with our kids... i suppose that cud look like we are a couple but i didnt no that wasnt allowed as such of spending time with someone. we dont share any money he works and pays for his own house and bills and i pay for mine n food. he has the children every other weekend but the benefits have always known about the mon and wed 2 hour visits and the every other weekend.

 

i personally dont feel like ive done anything wrong just was upset about that someone has thought that ive been doing somthing to report me

 

im very greatful for everyones advice its such a grey area

[antone]

Well, no financial connections and different addresses are strong indicators that you're not a couple. It's hardly unreasonable for a father to spend time with his children, and that is quite likely to involve the mother in some ways if she's the custodial parent.

 

It is annoying that people can make malicious reports of benefit fraud, I agree. But I'd say to take it in your stride: the people who do such things are not nice people, and sadly there are many not nice people in the world.

[charlotto]

thanks hun for your advice. i feel a little better now just suppose i was worried as its only been the last 2 months we have disgussed been together again and spending some time together. i just hope i havent unknowly broke the law. im unsure what i sud tell the officer though?

[Guest ilovemycat]

Do you know if the guy is DWP or local authority/council? Some council bods are working out of local job centres now, so I'd imagine he could be either. In my experience DWP are far more reasonable to deal with than LA officer/investigators - but it probably depends where you are (but don't say on here!). It may not make a huge difference in the end, but it's generally best to know exactly who and what you're dealing with.Anyways, meanwhile - regardless where he's from - I'd suggest you maybe write back and ask that your case and any subsequent visits be handled by a female compliance officer. It's a reasonable request (after all, what lone woman feels safe letting some strange man in her home? He could be a rapist for all you know) and it's one I believe they'd need to comply with. At best it sounds like this current CO guy is a judgemental bully with a pre-set idea for how your case should be viewed, so getting someone less hostile appointed to deal with the business would be a good move (imho).

EDIT/UPDATE: Just wanted to add - you're doing nothing wrong from what I've read. Don't be intimidated. You're demonstrably physically NOT co-habiting with anyone and so, beyond that, if you bleefin' well say you're not part of a couple then that is the truth of who and what you are. It's for YOU to define yourself - not some deliberately vague heffalump trap-like bit of nonsense they call a "government definition".God bless

Edited August 7, 2013 by ilovemycat

[charlotto]

i was thinking of mentioning this tomorrow when i go to CAB to seek some advice. to me on the phone he sounded like no matter what i said i would be guilty, im happy to answer any questions etc they have but to me i dont think ive done anything wrong however the more i read on the internet the more im scared. esp the bit about looking like a couple. to an outside person who doesnt know us may think that coz we go out on a sunday or he pops to my house to see the kids a couple of nights a week then we cud been seen as a couple. i no loads of ppl say oh i wouldnt fruad benefits but i wouldnt, we was together 5 years and never claimed anything other then child tax. and if we ever got to a point of moving in then i wud delcare it im to scared of been in trouble with law to be silly. i have always been honest with the contact we have (minus the sunday as thats been recent) i also work 5 hours a week i declare that send in weekly payslips to me this doesnt make sense! he is with DWP or so it says on the letter x

[Guest ilovemycat]

Ah! Didn't realise you're here - I just added a bit to my previous post

[charlotto]

i have never had this intimation before.. when ever ive had one one these i have rang they asked a few things i answered and any advice they gave me i have follewed through they have closed the case. it just seems like he wasnt intrested and he made it very clear he was coming to investigate me for fraud

[antone]

EDIT/UPDATE: Just wanted to add - you're doing nothing wrong from what I've read. Don't be intimidated. You're demonstrably physically NOT co-habiting with anyone and so, beyond that, if you bleefin' well say you're not part of a couple then that is the truth of who and what you are. It's for YOU to define yourself - not some deliberately vague heffalump trap-like bit of nonsense they call a "government definition".God bless

 

Just to be clear, there is no "government definition" - as I pointed out, the term is not defined in law. Officers are expected to use the everyday meaning of the term and apply some common sense, but that doesn't mean that two people get to define for themselves whether or not they are a couple. There is guidance available to Decision Makers and other DWP/council staff on the topic, and it can be read here.

 

Otherwise, I agree that on the facts presented the OP has not done anything wrong, and that it's reasonable to request a female CO under the circumstances.

[Guest ilovemycat]

i have never had this intimation before.. when ever ive had one one these i have rang they asked a few things i answered and any advice they gave me i have follewed through they have closed the case. it just seems like he wasnt intrested and he made it very clear he was coming to investigate me for fraud

 

I hear you. It's distressing when you're not just being looked at coz they have to coz some nut made a complaint (bad enough!) but additionally you're being treated as guilty from the get-go by the CO assigned to find out the truth. Ooh, just heard the click of another post going up. Probs you. I'll post this anyway.

[charlotto]

i have read some of the guidlines....things like that my ex partner goes to school parent evenings or is the emergancy contact? he is there dad of course he does. i dunno i have always been honest with them but it all falls under what one officer thinks (and his attitude on the phone stank). i can understand how certain asspects can look like a coupke the going out for day him coming to my house... but he is paying for all his house and bills he wud have to be pretty rich to do that and pay all my bills an all. surly as a couple he wud be staying over alot etc. i really hope CAB can shed some light as to weather i sud be worried or not. they have asked before if we was together but we aint and i said no. i dont feel like we are together just degussing weather or not we can make it work surley we dont have to get back together move in etc as soon as we decide to try again??