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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Legalcare.co.uk Court Claim - **Settled at Mediation**


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Hi Danie1le,

 

Have you seeked legal advice? Why don't you ask the BBC I had a situation and Radio Norfolk took up the case and the parties who just insisted I owned then eventually backed off and the Government department

 

resolved the problem.

 

So this maybe an avenue you could explore with your local BBC. These people don't like this publicity.

 

Kind Regards

tim d

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Thanks Mike, I sent the letter off last week and today I've had a reply from Paul Careless, he said that they don't agree to discontinuance and they are happy to go ahead with the full hearing. It looks like I am in this for the long haul!

 

He said he would consider a settlement offer to bring the matter to a close but I won't be making one because I don't owe them a single penny!

If they're intent to take this all the way then bring that Without Prejudice - save as to costs letter to court and when the judge kicks out their claim you'll be able to show it to the court when you bring up the matter of your costs.

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Danielle, did you read the blog in the following link - I think there is likely all the terms and conditions you might require.

 

http://www.davidsottimano.com/legalcare-co-uk-instant-review-horrible-company-do-not-use/

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi Danie1le,

 

Have you seeked legal advice? Why don't you ask the BBC I had a situation and Radio Norfolk took up the case and the parties who just insisted I owned then eventually backed off and the Government department

 

resolved the problem.

 

So this maybe an avenue you could explore with your local BBC. These people don't like this publicity.

 

Kind Regards

tim d

 

I initially went to citizens advice who referred me to the citizens advice consumer service who referred me to the legal ombudsman who referred me back to the citizens advice consumer service and to be honest the posts here have been much more helpful and informative than they have been.

 

I haven't considered BBC Radio Stoke although I have written to my local MP Paul Farrelly who has responded personally and while I am not sure what help he can give me with my case he has on my behalf written to Vince Cable about my case and to ask him why companies like Legal Care are not regulated and are being allowed to operate as they do.

 

If they're intent to take this all the way then bring that Without Prejudice - save as to costs letter to court and when the judge kicks out their claim you'll be able to show it to the court when you bring up the matter of your costs.

 

Thank you, I will do, I have copies of everything.

 

Danielle, did you read the blog in the following link - I think there is likely all the terms and conditions you might require.

 

http://www.davidsottimano.com/legalcare-co-uk-instant-review-horrible-company-do-not-use/

 

Thank you, yes I have been following that blog for a while.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's been quiet for a while but I have a court date - 10am on Monday, 4th November.

 

I received a letter today requesting that I send a copy of documents I wish to take to court with me no later than 14 days before the hearing. It has also invited me to contact the courts mediator.

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Hi Danielle,

 

You should get together all the documents and evidence you have, so it can be put into order for your Court Bundle (the evidence that you'll submit in support of your defence).

 

This will include screen shots before and after the site changed the way they displayed their T&C's, all letters exchanged, notes of any tel cons, etc.

 

You should also contact the court mediator so you can show that you tried to resolve the matter without a court hearing.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Thanks Slick,

 

How am I best going about doing this? How would I show/present the evidence too them.

 

I was under the impression that I would need to write a more detailed statement / defence but there is no mention of this in any of the papers from the court.

 

My biggest concern is how I will come across in court, I am quite shy and don't speak very well at all, I'm even dreading the mediation! I've been in touch with them, they are waiting to hear from Legal Care.

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Danie1le, I think you are referring to a Witness statement. You could prepare one of these for yourself if you haven't been asked to produce one already and enclose it with your bundle - you should refer to the documents you are providing within the WS. At least it will help you stay focussed if you are shy/nervous :)

 

I have attached some general information about preparing a witness statement :)

 

I have also attached a Guide for LiPs (Litigant in Persons) which is what you will be as you are unrepresented.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46361[/ATTACH]

 

Guidance Notes for WS.pdf

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi D,

 

Can you please confirm exactly what the court Directions say.

 

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Thanks for the advice citizen, I will have a read through those links.

 

I think it's easier if I just post links to a scan of what I received from the court.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/img133.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/img134.jpg

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Hi Danielle,

 

I note on the PoC that the Claimant says he will provide you "with separate detailed Particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form". Did this happen and, if so, what was sent to you.

 

There should be an attempt at Mediation as Directed by the judge.

 

Your evidence, as I suggested earlier, needs to be prepared ready to File and Serve (to the court and to the claimant) a clear 14 days before the Hearing date.

 

:-)

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Thanks Slick,

 

It was the separate particulars I received first a day before the claim form.

 

This was sent... (along with a copy of the Terms & Conditions)

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/20130620_192300.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/20130620_192426.jpg

 

I have been talking with the mediation service and it is difficult to arrange an appointment around work. We are looking at the first week of October when I have a holiday if the claimant agrees.

 

I have a folder with the evidence in which I can scan and send copies to the court and the claimant. I just don't understand how it would be presented, does it need to be in any sort of order?

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Hi Danie1le

 

The w/s should be constructed in such a way that it provides the DJ with the story/timeline of events with reference to any evidence/exhibit you wish to rely upon.

 

Don't go overboard though, the last thing you want is the j getting bored with repetitive points of dispute and protracted arguments.

 

Where you refer to an exhibit note it accordingly within the w/s ( provide it with a reference.... ex1, ex2 etc etc) and attach to bundle for service and filing.

 

Probably best that its in your own words but by all means attach a copy on here as it may promote suggestions.

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Hi Danielle,

 

It occurred to me last night that you should include relevant references to the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Mgt Services Ltd. This gives clear guidance on what Mr Justice Kitchin thought was acceptable as notice of cancellation by a consumer with regard to an agreement or contract.

 

:-)

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Thanks for the advice, I will start working on putting a proper folder together with references as well as a witness statement.

 

How would I go about referencing the OFT v Ashbourne case? Would I quote from it or just refer to it, and which parts?

 

Thank you!

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You can refer to it and mention the specific parts of either the full ruling or the Penal Order made against AMSL.

 

The main point I would want to put across is that an agreement or contract can be cancelled by the consumer in various ways and it does NOT have to be done ONLY in the manner set out in T&C's given by the supplier.

 

Use the AMSL case thread in the Gym Forum Stickies to find the main ruling from 2011 and the subsequent Penal Order made by the Judge. If you need help on this, just shout.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132
typo

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think I will need help in how to refer to or quote from the AMSL case, I have tried to read the full ruling but a lot of t is going straight over my head, I am not sure which parts specifically are relevant to my case.

 

Any help is appreciated. Many Thanks

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OK Danielle,

 

Apart from reference to the AMSL case, have you put anything together yet to submit as your evidence in defence of the claim ?

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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I have mainly written a witness statement, I have been concentrating on that so I can use it as a guide during mediation next week.. but I would also like to mention the AMSL case to the mediators too, I just don't know how to, should I include it in my witness statement?

 

I do have a folder with some screen shots and print outs. It just needs organising.

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Hi D,

 

I don't think you need refer to the AMSL case in your Witness Statement (WS). The WS is simply a brief factual description of events, setting out a simple line of events with dates as seen from your point of view.

 

The key points of the AMSL ruling are that Mr Justice Kitchin confirmed that an agreement can be terminated in several ways, not in specific or limited ways that may work to the consumer's detriment. I would include something like :-

 

10. The claimant's insisted that the contract/agreement could only be cancelled in a specific manner, which was unfair and prejudiced the defendant.

 

11. In the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd [[2011] EWHC 1237 (Ch)] , Mr Justice Kitchin referred to gym membership agreements and the specific way in which members were required to give notice to cancel.

 

12. In the Penal Order made by Mr Justice Kitchin against AMSL in August 2011, at 16(ii) he said, "For the avoidance of doubt: an individual gym member may terminate an agreement by giving a gym club, or AMSL or agent or employee of the gym club, notice by words or conduct that he or she (a) has ended the agreement (b) intends to end it or © believes that it ought to be ended, whether by a written statement in a letter or an email, by an oral statement made during a meeting or a phone call, by cancellation of a direct debit mandate, or otherwise."

 

13. The defendant claims that the manner in which she cancelled any agreement with the claimant was sufficient to end the agreement.

 

The numbers are just to show how the evidence can be set out into small paragraphs.

 

:-)

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I'm going to run my advice above by other Site Team members to check they agree..................

 

:wink:

We could do with some help from you

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