Terminal Illness - Debts

[citizenB]

Adrian, I am so very sorry to hear this.

 

Best wishes to you and your family x

[scotgal68]

Sorry to hear your sad news, you've a long road ahead of you and I hope the love you all share and your memories will help you along the way xx

[caro]

Sorry to hear this adr1an. Make the most of what time you have. xx

[adr1an]

Hi

 

Sorry to bring up an old thread, if I need to start a new one I will.

 

Well, it's been a few months now since my dad died, things are still fresh and raw in my mind, never seen somebody suffer so much. Anyway, may I pick your brains again please?

 

When he died, obviously he had debts. There was no money left or anything and we had a funeral payment to pay for the costs, which didn't totally cover them. Basically, I am being harrased by Vanquis (Impact). Even though, after my dad passed we changed our telephone number, they found it somehow (x-directory too). Anyway, we changed that number again since.

 

I have today had a letter (from Impact), addressed to my dad C/O my address. He never lived here, I am however unfortunately up and over with them with my own debt. Anyway, I did (my brother did) send a death certificate to them last year, which they say they never had. My brother was dealing with all that as I suffer badly with mental health and find this very hard. Unfortunately my brother ended up in jail a few weeks after my dad's passing, so double whammy for us I guess.

 

I've told Vanquis to stop writing to me and phoning me, they are just not listening. I'll probably have to pay for another copy of the death certificate, along with travelling as he died out of the area in the hospice. What can I do about this?

 

Any advice will be appreciated. Thank you.

Edited March 1, 2014 by adr1an

[citizenB]

Hi Adrian,

 

If they require a copy of hte Death Certificate, then they know how to obtain one.

 

As the copy you sent them whenever has not been returned to you, it was almost certainly delivered to them.

 

I would suggest one more letter - head it formal complaint and send to their Head office.

 

Your father passed away on DATE - you have already paid out for a copy of the certificate for them which was posted on DATE. As it has not been returned, then you believe it is in their possession somewhere. They can of course obtain one themselves. You are now demanding they remove your telephone number and address for anything to do with your father. If they do not confirm to you by DATE (say 14 days maximum) that this has been done, then you will be escalating your complaint to the Ombudsman.

 

I will alert others on the site team for you - to see if they have any other advice.. so hold off doing anything until at least tomorrow

[silverfox1961]

Hi

This is appalling behaviour by Vanquis and them writing to you is very very naughty. To ensure this stops, I suggest a formal complaint to them in writing with another copy of the death certificate and warning them that if they fail to stop the chasing, you will escalate this matter to the financial ombudsman.

 

Get a proof of posting from the post office then if they claim they didn't receive the complaint, you can prove you posted the letter. either that or send by signed for delivery.

[adr1an]

Hi, thanks for the quick responses.

 

I will certainly make an official complaint, I was however hoping to avoid the cost of getting another certificate (mind you, I'm not sure how much they are as my brother did all that). CitizenB, you mentioned "then they know how to obtain one" Can they get one without me paying out?

 

Of course, I agree it is "appalling behaviour", and I don't see how they are allowed to write to me. I've a good mind to pay them £1 a month off my debt!! It was mentioned that my brother, or myself, should have had the copy of the certificate back, I didn't know that I thought they just kept it, well I'm guessing they have anyway. Worst come to the worst though, I will make an effort to send another, this time with proof of posting and delivery.

 

Thanks so much again.

[unclebulgaria67]

If anyone wants a copy of a death certificate, all you have to provide them is the full name, date of birth and what registrars office they should contact. They will then have to pay the fee which used to be £10 to get a certificate. You don't have to provide one or pay the fee. It is up to any interested parties to get one for themselves.

[citizenB]

silverfox meant to say "photocopy" of the certificate. Do you have an original or copy of ?

[adr1an]

No, I haven't got any of the death certificates, no doubt I can get one but as somebody mentioned if they can get it then I guess let them pay. It did cost a surprisingly large amount of money caring for my dad, not that I would have had it any other way, but nevertheless it was expensive, so if they can pay so be it.

 

To be honest, it seems even if I sent another copy they would still chase and chase for the debt. I'm not that up on the facts, but there wasn't a penny left after he died. We had to pay some towards the funeral, which was the cheapest (sadly) we could find. I just worry that they (and then other creditors of his) will harass me to the ends of the earth - I'm finding this really hard tbh.

 

So, I need to try and focus here and get it right. I should write a final letter, giving details so they can get the certificate, and send recorded delivery, and that should be it for my part? Is this about the best thing I can do? If there's no money, then I would assume neither myself or brother can be held to pay this debt?

 

Sorry, going on a bit here. Just need advice on the way forward, still don't know where they got my telephone number and address, so frustrating.

 

EDIT: Sorry, another question for future reference. Is there a LEGAL requirement to whoever registers the death to inform the deceased creditors? If that's the case then as my brother is unable to I'll have to inform all his creditors, then god knows how much hassle I'll get.

Edited March 1, 2014 by adr1an

[silverfox1961]

I think it highly unlikely that you will know all of his creditors so I would wait for them.

 

As there is no money left in the estate, his debts died with him. No one else is responsible for them.

 

Once told of the circumstances, they should back off and if they don't, formal complaints should be made followed by escalation to the Financial Ombudsman and the OFT.

 

All debt collectors have a duty to follow the OFT's debt collection guidance.

[citizenB]

I agree with silverfox. Draft one letter that can be sent to ALL creditors as they pop up.

 

 

 

Account reference.

Name of your Father

 

I am in receipt of your letter DATED.

 

I am advising that MR XYZ, my Father, passed away on DATE. He left no estate. You can obtain a copy of the Death Certificate by applying to the Register of Births and Deaths and paying the appropriate fee. The family are not in a position to fund this.

 

I must insist that you now cease all collection activity on this account and leave my family (me) to grieve in peace.

 

Should I hear from you again, I will be making a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman and the OFT.

 

Yours PRINT YOUR NAME ONLY

 

 

 

Send something along the lines of the above - obtain free proof of posting slips from the Post office. It is pointless spending money on tracked mail if they are still going to make contact.

 

I wonder if it would be worth returning mail unopened.. marked "Return to sender - Addressee passed away" ?

[silverfox1961]

At the risk of being very politically incorrect.

 

I wonder if it would be worth returning mail unopened.. marked "Return to sender - Addressee passed away" ?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22208720

[adr1an]

What I will do then is send whoever a letter, using the template shown (much appreciated) and go from there. After that, any more from these and I will constantly just return letters to sender, or go down the reporting them route.

 

If I'm not resposible for my dad's debts, you'd think the creditors would bog off, but I guess sometimes they do win.

 

Probably a dull question. After doing a search online I can't seem to see clearly who has to deal with the creditors. Is it the one who dealt with my dad's affairs after he died, or the one who registered the death? My brother thinks it is him as he sent a copy of the certificate to Vanquis, but I'm not sure as I registered the death. Or does it not matter? omg, I'm confusing myself now. Am I making any sense lol? And does the death certificate, I can't remember, show my address - maybe that's how Vanquis got my address then? So if they did get my address from the certificate, then they obviously received it and are trying their luck getting money out of me... I need to switch my PC off and try to unwind, they have really upset me today.

 

Thanks again for your patience in answering my million questions!

Edited March 1, 2014 by adr1an

[citizenB]

What I will do then is send whoever a letter, using the template shown (much appreciated) and go from there. After that, any more from these and I will constantly just return letters to sender, or go down the reporting them route.

 

If I'm not resposible for my dad's debts, you'd think the creditors would bog off, but I guess sometimes they do win.

 

Thanks again.

 

You are most certainly NOT responsible for your Father's debts. However, I imagine that some people are being convinced by creditors that they are. Or simply pay up to stop the harrassment.

 

That would be my plan of action.

 

One letter - proof of posting obtained and kept with copy of letter. That way if you need to escalate your complaint to the OFT/FOS then you have proof it was sent.

 

If they dont cease sending the letters, then make the complaint

 

Keep us updated, please.

[silverfox1961]

A lot of companies, not just creditors will prey on the consumers lack of knowledge and make statements (verbally) that would never appear in writing.

 

The executor of the estate is responsible for settling debts from any remaining funds after taxes and funeral costs. No money left= tough ti**y

[citizenB]

At the risk of being very politically incorrect.

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22208720

 

 

Yes, I saw this. I suspect this happens quite frequently, it just doesnt reach the media. I think there was a long running battle with Lowells by one Cagger who kept receiving letters. I think he started to return letters with a forwarding address of the cemetry on them !!

[adr1an]

A lot of companies, not just creditors will prey on the consumers lack of knowledge and make statements (verbally) that would never appear in writing.

 

The executor of the estate is responsible for settling debts from any remaining funds after taxes and funeral costs. No money left= tough ti**y

 

Thanks for all your replies. The executor, is that the one who registered the death or the person who just dealt with creditors, banks etc etc? Sorry if that's a dumb question

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The executor is the person named in a will as the "administrator" of the deceased estate.

[adr1an]

The executor is the person named in a will as the "administrator" of the deceased estate.

 

Thanks very much for that. I can't remember if my details are on the death certificate as I registered the death and handed it all to my brother who has just confirmed to me again that he did indeed send Vanquis the original, and copies to a few other creditors - which may explain why I haven't heard off anybody else except for vanquis.

 

There was no will, so does that mean I'm basically classed as just the person who registered the death thus I'm not really obligated to even have to deal with these morons. Of course, I will need to as they are harassing me, but basically I would not be an "executor"? Although I feel like executing Vanquis!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks very much for that. I can't remember if my details are on the death certificate as I registered the death and handed it all to my brother who has just confirmed to me again that he did indeed send Vanquis the original, and copies to a few other creditors - which may explain why I haven't heard off anybody else except for vanquis.

 

There was no will, so does that mean I'm basically classed as just the person who registered the death thus I'm not really obligated to even have to deal with these morons. Of course, I will need to as they are harassing me, but basically I would not be an "executor"? Although I feel like executing Vanquis!

Hi,

Can we assume there is no significant estate to be able to pay the outstanding debts.

If so the copies of the death certificate and maybe a sworn affidavit that there is no money or assets

in the estate to satisfy creditors demands should stop all the problems.

[adr1an]

Sworn Affidavit! Now I'm lost lol.

 

No, there was no estate, or money. He lived in Social Housing, apart from about £50 when he passed there was no more.

 

He was going to move in with us, so we started emptying his flat of his worldly belongings, very basic stuff - he lived quite a simple way of life. Big stuff, like cooker etc was so old we gave it all away, then whilst we were doing that he was taken to the hospice and never came out, so no, there was literally nothing left.

 

I'll just do as earlier advice mentioned, write, tell them to get the certificate themselves as it seems that's all I need to do, and then report them if they continue to harass me. That seems to be all I need to worry about, I think.

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

 

I'll just do as earlier advice mentioned, write, tell them to get the certificate themselves as it seems that's all I need to do, and then report them if they continue to harass me. That seems to be all I need to worry about, I think.

 

Thanks

 

Sounds like a plan to me

[adr1an]

Sorry to post another message on this old(ish) thread, hopefully it will be seen.

 

I just wonder if anybody can give me some more advice (Sorry!)

 

Two of his creditors are now writing to me regularly.

 

Capital One are writing to me, my name on the letter, asking me to sort payment out. I have already demanded they stop writing to me, I have advised them there was no estate, no money or anything for them - so please stop writing. This is falling on deaf ears.

 

I talked to them via a recorded telephone conversation where they told me "I Must" fill out a form they will send (not received yet though). The form will ask details of any money left, how much the funeral was and exactly how any estate was spent. They also want any bank details.

 

I told them this is stressful and upsetting and to stop any further correspondence. I was told until I comply, they will continue sending letters or may instruct debt collectors to visit my home. I am awaiting their final response from a written complaint to them.

 

I spoke to the CAB who told me to comply fully with them. Don't know what to do now, I really don't want to continue with this upset yet I don't see why I should be forced to "Comply" with them.

 

The second company, Fredrickson International for JD Williams are writing to my address also. When I asked the advisor why he is writing to me he stated it was probably because we share the same surname! Thousands share my surname! Again, I explained the situation, as I did to JD Williams and they are too demanding I give written information regarding the non-existent estate.

 

I've written to three Credit reference Agencies who say that third parties are linking my father to my address (he never lived here though) and there is nothing they can do about it. They also say I am not entitled to know who these third parties are due to data protection. I have checked my credit file and there is no sign of my dad linked to my address, so the Credit Agencies must have a different version of the file I guess.

 

I'm guessing that soon enough I will be inundated from other debt collectors, even though ALL creditors know (as far as I know) my dad has passed.

 

I don't know how to stop this, and CAB say comply fully, which is what I thought I was doing. Any advice is, as always, greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[caro]

If you have written to them telling them there was no estate and provided a copy of the death certificate, then ignore them. You have done what you need to. Don't get drawn into speaking to them on the phone. However keep all letters and envelopes (writing on date received) and keep them in case you ever need them as evidence of harassment. Report their behaviour to FCA.

 

If there is inaccurate info in your credit file which you can't get changed, complain to the ICO.