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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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Hi-I'm considering trying to reclaim some or all of my bailiff charges over unpaid (late) council tax.

 

Can anyone please point me to any legislation or regulations that determine valid levies please?

 

I'm confused as to why any walking possession agreement inside a house requires a signature yet it seems that levied goods outside the house are OK if not signed (ie a car or items from a shed/outbuilding) Who decides if a levy requires a signature or not?

 

I'm pretty confident that I can claim my Head H fee back after reading the thread on here.

 

I also have a removal of goods fee of £240 which seems a bit steep.

 

All money has been paid,no goods were removed and no debt is outstanding but as the dust is settling,I feel as though I've been mugged.

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

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Did you check to see how much you owed at the time as confirmed by the Council? You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

 

Did you ever send off for a breakdown of the fees you were charged? Here's an example of what to send and do it initially by email followed by a letter in the post.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

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Thanks for that.

 

I'm pretty sure the council tax side of things are right as it only involves 1 situation.I will write off to the bailiffs though as it will be helpful to have it in writing.

 

I'm not sure if I'll get anywhere but if the walking possession isn't signed,I'm hoping the levy will be incorrect,making all the other charges wrong as well.

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Thanks for that.

 

I'm pretty sure the council tax side of things are right as it only involves 1 situation.I will write off to the bailiffs though as it will be helpful to have it in writing.

 

I'm not sure if I'll get anywhere but if the walking possession isn't signed,I'm hoping the levy will be incorrect,making all the other charges wrong as well.

 

A Notice of Seizure must be left with you at the time any goods are seized - doesn't matter whether within your home or outside - it should also detail the fees that have been incurred and should be signed & dated by the Bailiff. These days a Notice of Seizure usually incorporates a Walking Possession Agreement leaving the goods in your control following whatever agreement you have reached over payment. If signed by yourself then this allows the Bailiff to charge an extra fee + a small daily ongoing payment. However it may be that the goods seized may be exempt from seizure for some reason, they may have little value or it may be the Bailiff has simply abandoned the goods.

 

If for some reason the Levy can be challenged and the fees removed then all other associated fees must also be removed and if applicable replaced by a 1st or 2nd Visit Fee instead.

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  • 2 weeks later...

How signed for the walking levy? also did that person have permission to sign the levy if not then it is invalid, the person who was being pursued by the bailiff must of signed the walking agreement if not this case may help you

  • The walking-possession agreement was signed by a person without the debtor's knowledge or permission

Edited by mikeymack2002

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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Sorry-My post was misleading.The levy was on a car.The WP was unsigned.The only case law I've been able to discover is where a bailiff with an unsigned WP returned to the levied items 9 times within a very short period in order to maintain the levy.I had 1 letter & a visit a month later.

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Can you list down the exact fees that you have been charged.

 

Also, if you are considering legal action have you taken into consideration the detailed assessment judgment in the case of Anthony Culligan v Marston Group?

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I am considering legal action/LGO (undecided at present which way to go).Having just googled the case you refer to,I don't think it is relevant unless I'm missing the point.

 

My understanding is that for the levy to valid,it must be completed correctly ie seizure followed by impounding.A clamp may be considered a form of impounding but this did not happen in my case.There was no walking or close possession.John Kruse has written that if it is not possible to find or persuade the debtor to sign a WP,it may still be possible to impound the goods by oral agreement (which again didn't happen in my case) but charges could not be made for such an arrangement.He adds "if no agreement is made at all,the bailiff can leave notice on the premises that seizure has occurred and this will impound the goods for a very brief period"

 

My debt was just over £300.My fees were:

Levy:£34.00

Removal of Goods: £240

Head H:£24.50

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I am very confused by what you are saying.

 

At first you appeared to indicate that the debt was for council and now it is for a parking ticket.

 

And yet....you have stated that the bailiff has "apparently" charged a "Head H" fee. The Ombudsman made it clear to a "Head H" fee should NOT be charged. I have never before come across a "Head H" fee being charged by a bailiff enforcing a warrant for an unpaid PCN.

 

Also ( from a great deal of experience, I have never before come across a case with an unpaid PCN where the starting debt was "just over £300".

 

Something isn't right here.

 

Which local authority issued the PCN and which firm of bailiffs enforced the warrant?

Which local authority

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Just to clarify TT,the case you referred to seemed to centre around the issue of clamping and whether charges can be made at the "removal of goods stage".

 

My case is for council tax.I do not have an issue with clamping,although the threat of clamping when the bailiffs returned prompted me to pay both the council tax arrears & the fees I mentioned above.I have since discovered that it is debateable whether cars can legaly be clamped for council tax issues.

 

I repeat-I am not sure that the case you mention is relevant to me unless I am missing something

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To help us out can you post up any documents that the bailiff has left with you and put it up in PDF format, deleting all personal details first, use paint to edit and then convert to pdf, and then post up this way we can see if you can reclaim.

 

Also do not start a complaint till we have all the facts, as recent cases have cost people lots of money they do not have or try to take on a bailiff in court

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I don't have a scanner.I have an inventory & a notice of seizure & WP (unsigned)

 

I have not instigated a complaint as yet as I've been asking the bailiffs for clarification on their fees.

 

I am confident the Head H is refundable.

 

I am questioning the £240 removal fee which seems steep

 

but more importantly I want to question the validity of the levy fee.

 

As I understand it part of the process involves impounding

How can a car be impounded with no walking or close possession?

 

If the levy fee is invalid,

the process must start again

so all fees thereafter in this case must surely be invalid?

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have you not got a mobile phone with a camera or a digital camera?

 

.............

 

mark not sure where you are getting your info from...let us review..

 

you say:

I had 1 letter & a visit a month later

My fees were:

Levy:£34.00

Removal of Goods: £240

Head H:£24.50

 

if this is true

 

then you have only had ONE PHYSICAL VISIT

unless the first letter was hand delivered?

 

if you have only had one visit they:

 

cannot charge an attendance fee [removal of goods fee] & a levy fee on the same visit

they cannot also charge head H fee either.

 

now, lets assume the letter was hand delivered & they levied at the same time

 

then they can charge the levy fee [as levied on 1st visit]

and second visit

a 'charge' IF they had a removal truck [not a van] to take the prev levied upon car

as long as it WAS listed?

they cannot charge the head H AND removal fee on 2nd visit

 

don't know nothing regarding impounding/close possession not sure what that is? or where you've red about that stuff....

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I read about the procedure of levies in a book by John Kruse entitled "Law of Siezure of Goods".He also makes the procedure quite clear in the book that is advertised on this site.

 

I'm not sure if everyones a little tipsy on here on Saturday nights but please allow me to clarify:

 

I did NOT say I only had one visit

-I said I only had one visit after the levy was made (when I was charged the removal of goods fee).

 

The importance of this point is that in order to maintain the validity of an unsigned levy

,it is my understanding that the bailiffs must either make a close possession (leaving a "possession man guarding the levied goods)

or must quickly follow through with a return visit/s.

It also appears to be the case that unsigned WP's are not chargeable.

 

Now if I am interpreting the situation correctly,I see a case for arguing the removal fee (it was a small van & not a truck) on the grounds that the levy was failed/invalid.

 

Regardless of what I am thinking,

 

you appear to be suggesting that I can argue the removal fee on the grounds that it was a van & not a truck.

 

Thankyou for this info.

 

Does anyone know of any case law to back this info up?

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....Now if I am interpreting the situation correctly,I see a case for arguing the removal fee (it was a small van & not a truck) on the grounds that the levy was failed/invalid.Regardless of what I am thinking,you appear to be suggesting that I can argue the removal fee on the grounds that it was a van & not a truck.Thankyou for this info.Does anyone know of any case law to back this info up?

 

I don't know whether there's case law for this or even if the LGO has any reports condemning this action, but how about making your own case to argue it?

 

You could start by looking at the definition of header C of schedule 5 of SI 1992/613, which states:

"
© For one attendance with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods (where, following the levy, goods are not removed):

 

Reasonable costs and fees incurred.

It is reasonable to assume that if the bailiff has already levied a vehicle, he knows that his Noddy car he uses for regular transport is not capable of removing the levied goods in this example.

 

It would simply be dishonest to charge this extortionate fee if the bailiff knew full well that he had no intention (view) to removing goods. This would obviously be the case if the transport he arrived in was anything other than a tow-truck.

 

Apart from the dishonesty, it could also be argued on the grounds of reasonableness, especially if this vehicle was used on the same day to impose fees for multiple visits to other debtors.

Edited by outlawla
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OK, now I understand what you are saying.

 

Firstly, is you are considering whether to take legal action or the LGO you need to be aware that if you take legal proceedings ( which will costs you) then you cannot then go to the LGO. However the LGO is free and if you do not get an order in your favour then you can at least go to court.

 

I am very worried indeed at the time that it takes to get a complaint resolved via the LGO. there is one person I know whose case has been with the LGO since last Feb and although the lady has had the Ombudsman's initial findings ( in her favour) in January the final order has not been completed. We have 4 others cases that have been with the LGO for at LEAST 6 months ( and one of them is now 9 months).

 

There is a common problem with reading such books as John Kruse's and this is that some people then become ( in their mind) lawyers. In the same way that some people may complete and Airfix mobile and believe that this makes them a pilot.

 

I know that a few months ago JK made a complaint to the LGO ( on behalf of a client who had visited the bureau) about this subject ( I think) and the LGO issued a Local Settlement notice about the failing of this one particular LA. I have an email from John with a copy of the order and will read it through again when I go to the office on Monday.

 

At which stage was the £240 fee charged. Was this at the visit to levy or at a subsequent visit?

 

PS: £240 is excessive in the extreme !!!

 

PS: Forget "close possession".....this almost NEVER happens.

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A unsigned walking possession is not valid/ineffective as per case law

 

A Notice of Seizure (Form 7) is just a document listing the goods seized, a Walking Possession Agreement (Form 8) entitles the Bailiff to charge an extra fee and a small daily charge. An unsigned WPA does not invalidate a lawfully taken levy,

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Thankyou to everyone who has taken the time to post advice to me-It is very much appreciated.

 

I shall be attempting to get back some,if not all of the fees I was charged and will be sure to keep the board posted with any developments.

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OK, now I understand what you are saying.

 

Firstly, is you are considering whether to take legal action or the LGO you need to be aware that if you take legal proceedings ( which will costs you) then you cannot then go to the LGO. However the LGO is free and if you do not get an order in your favour then you can at least go to court.

 

I am very worried indeed at the time that it takes to get a complaint resolved via the LGO. there is one person I know whose case has been with the LGO since last Feb and although the lady has had the Ombudsman's initial findings ( in her favour) in January the final order has not been completed. We have 4 others cases that have been with the LGO for at LEAST 6 months ( and one of them is now 9 months).

 

There is a common problem with reading such books as John Kruse's and this is that some people then become ( in their mind) lawyers. In the same way that some people may complete and Airfix mobile and believe that this makes them a pilot.

 

I know that a few months ago JK made a complaint to the LGO ( on behalf of a client who had visited the bureau) about this subject ( I think) and the LGO issued a Local Settlement notice about the failing of this one particular LA. I have an email from John with a copy of the order and will read it through again when I go to the office on Monday.

 

At which stage was the £240 fee charged. Was this at the visit to levy or at a subsequent visit?

 

PS: £240 is excessive in the extreme !!!

 

PS: Forget "close possession".....this almost NEVER happens.

 

TT-Having re-read this post,I am keen to discover where JK obtained the info from regarding levies,invalid levies and also when levies may not be charged for.I presume I cannot go before a judge and simply say "the levy was invalid because JK said so".I am confident from posts by Owtlawla that I can beat the van & head H fees as there is something in writing to back my claim up.The levy fee seems such a grey area though-This is suprising given the importance of this action.If there is anything within the email/copy of the order that may be connected to the levy,it would be very much appreciated if you could share that.

 

Thanks

 

Mark

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