Accusation of theft of customers property by employer

[mrchrisss]

Hi there,

 

Hoping someone can give me the answer to the following question.

 

Can my employer accuse me of theft of customers property, investigate it and possibly discipline me?

 

I've received an invitation to an investigation and I'm being accused of stealing customers property. I can't say what company or what has been stolen.

 

My time with the company has been 2 years and a few days, no previous disciplinary issues with the company.

[Emmzzi]

they can certainly investigate - if you were the customer wouldn't you expect them to?

 

Whether a disciplinary is appropriate will depend on what is discovered during the investigation.

[mrchrisss]

they can certainly investigate - if you were the customer wouldn't you expect them to?

 

Whether a disciplinary is appropriate will depend on what is discovered during the investigation.

 

There is no complaint from a customer.

[Emmzzi]

That weakens the case then and gives you less to worry about.

 

But if there are witnesses or CCTV or, for example, the customer sells jeans and a huge stack of jeans turned up in a locker, yes, they can investigate to see if they have a dishonest member of staff.

 

This is especially true in eg care situations where the customer is a vulnerable person.

[mrchrisss]

That weakens the case then and gives you less to worry about.

 

But if there are witnesses or CCTV or, for example, the customer sells jeans and a huge stack of jeans turned up in a locker, yes, they can investigate to see if they have a dishonest member of staff.

 

This is especially true in eg care situations where the customer is a vulnerable person.

 

When you say it weakens their case are you suggesting that if no complaint has been made they can do it because they think I did? Would I have a case to take against the company?

[Emmzzi]

You need to sit tight and let the investigation run its course. Right now you have not been disciplined at all, they are just having a look at it. So right now there is no case against you. and for conducting an investigation, no, you have no case against your employer.

 

No complaint from the customer just means there is a oiece of evidence missing, not that there is no evidence. Also the measure is "balance of probabilities" not "100% proof." So they can dismiss on a reasonable belief.

 

I note you aren't saying if you did it, just debating process...? The advice is very different for innocent and guilty people, everyone cocks up at some point, if you wish to tell us more we can guide you better for the best outcome.

[altobelli]

The employer shouldn't go 'fishing' for things to investigate, but if they become aware of something which requires investigation, they have a right to investigate, indeed would be expected to do so. They can discipline if they have reasonable belief that you did what you were accused of following an investigation, but they should take reasonable steps to investigate the available evidence and should allow you to present your side and fully consider all points you raise. The disciplinary measures should be reasonable, i.e. treating something which is generally accepted practice and where policies haven't been made clear as theft would be likely to be unreasonable.

 

But they should be clear what you are being accused of, i.e. more specific than just 'theft'.

[Emmzzi]

But they should be clear what you are being accused of, i.e. more specific than just 'theft'.

 

..after the investigation. They can be vague before. It is quite common to be vague so as not to tip you off and give you time to prepare a false story.

 

Honesty is the best and indeed only policy to follow for now!

[mrchrisss]

Ok, I can go in to a little more detail.

 

On the 8th of this month I was investigated for possible theft of company property and manipulation of a company computer for my own personal gain. During the investigation it was changed to error in a process as I was able to prove that then property concerned actually belonged tl a family member and that I had their permission to have it in my possession. I was suspended on full pay until a discipline meeting was arranged.

 

The error relates to trading in an item that was previously deemed to be damaged.

 

A few days later i had my invitation, arrived on the Friday with a meeting arranged for Tuesday. The meeting was put back until the Thursday at my request. The disciplinary was questions why I traded in damaged goods. I put my points across and then the manager went off, came back and asked questions about another item that was traded in, previously damaged but this was purchased under my name from the company. The reason I was accused of theft of company property before was that item was purchased by my Mother In Law.

 

The discipline meeting was 'terminated' pending further investigation re the new item that was seen. I was told that the proof i had for the second item would have a bearing on the decision. I was told to expect a new investigation. I've had notice of the new investigation, my manager called me and said that as the first investigation was not done correctly, he wouldn't say why.

 

The new investigation is to investigate theft of a customers property and traded in for own personal gain.The second item is also on there but I have proof that that is un founded.

 

So, i have been investigated, discipline meeting terminated, new allegation of theft of customers property, first it was company then theft was dropped, now its theft of customers property.

 

They have no evidence of theft, I've already proved that.

[altobelli]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I would say the employer has so far been broadly fair, the suspension is a bit OTT and there is a slight element of 'fishing' for things to investigate, but they do seem to be doing a proper investigation and have been specific with the allegations. They must be specific, the presumption must be one of innocence so it would not be proper to make vague allegations against you, even at the investigatory stage. You should be given the opportunity to prepare a full defence, and it is for the investigator to ascertain the underlying truth.

 

If my understanding is correct, the circumstances are as follows:

 

i) You sold an item belonging to your mother in law with her permission.

ii) You bought another item, which was classed as damaged, and sold it at a profit. This second item belonged to the company and not a family member.

 

The allegations are that for i), you stole the item, i.e. took it and sold it without the owner's permission. The use of the word 'theft' would impy that they are accusing you of deliberately taking the item, so are they no longer accusing you of an error in process? With regards to ii), what is their allegation regarding this item? What is the company policy and general practice regarding buying and reselling of damaged goods?

[mrchrisss]

The previous investigation cleared me of theft. It was then about trading in a damaged item. The new investigation is about theft of a customers item and a separate issue of trading in my own item that was deemed faulty, as above this can be shelved as I have proof to dispense that allegation.

 

Can my employer accuse me of theft of company property when it doesn't belong to them then change that to an error in process, discipline me, halt the disciplinary then accuse me again of theft of the same item but this time change it to theft of a customers property when that has already been accepted as in the first investigation that it wasn't stolen and investigate it a second time? So fsr, I've been suspended for 3 and a half weeks.

 

They won't tell me what went wrong in the first investigation either.

[altobelli]

The accusation can change, for example if there was confusion about who owns the item then the employer can change the allegation from 'company' to 'customer' property. Likewise, if the original allegation was of theft and it turned out that theft didn't take place but procedures weren't followed, then the employer can change the allegation. But they do need to be careful not to be seen to be 'fishing' for things to investigate or to be seen to be trying to pin something on you because the original investigation was unwarranted. Also, they should take into consideration how widely the procedures are known and what generally accepted practice is regarding the procedure for staff purchases. Perhaps an informal approach is better to resolve this rather than a formal investiagtion.

 

That said, it seems strange to investigate you again for theft when they have already accepted that there was no theft and there is no new evidence. This would seem improper. Would your mother in law be prepared to put something in writing to confirm that she gave you permission to sell the item?

 

They haven't disciplined you yet. The suspension appears to me to be excessive in the first place and would also appear over-long in the circumstances.

 

At this stage, it is probably not too important what went wrong with the first investigation, but you might need to get specific details on this at a later date.

 

Just to confirm the current siutation with allegation, is it as in my post #10?

[mrchrisss]

I traded in an item at work that belonged to my mother in law, it was on the companies system in her name, i traded it in under my name for her.

 

So, are you advising that my employer can accuse me of stealing their property when they didn't own it and knew so from the start, drag me through an investigation, change the reason from theft to error in a process, terminate a disciplinary awaiting an investigation of point 2 and then investigate me again for theft of something that doesn't belong to them where there has been no proof, no evidence or complaint and something that they have already investigated and confirmed that something wasn't done right but not tell me what it is?

 

Do i have enough to take any action against them?

[altobelli]

Yes, I am suggesting that they can do most of those things.

 

i) They can make an allegation of theft if they feel that something has been stolen. But they should have a reasonable basis before accusing you of theft, i.e. something has gone missing and it would be reasonable to believe that you deliberately took it. If there was doubt about who owned the property, they can change the allegation to reflect this when ownership has been established.

 

ii) The investigation should be as quick as possible, and you should be presented with specific allegations in order to be able to defend yourself. But I think the employer has for the most part done this.

 

iii) If, given information which comes to light during the investigation, the employer discovers information which demonstrates that theres was no theft, but instead an error in process, then they are entitled to change the allegation. They do need to take care though, that they're not behaving in a way where they're detrmined to pin something on you just to justify the investigation.

 

iv) Its acceptable to terminate a disciplinary and reconvene if further investigation is needed.

 

v) They shouldn't re-investigate you for theft if they have already decided no theft occured and there is no new evidence. But it doesn't matter who the property belongs to if it is placed with the employer for safe-keeping.

 

vi) I would hold fire for the moment as to what wasn't done right at the initial investigation - you can look into that later if need be.

 

vii) The suspension is, in my view, unecessary and over-long, as a commercial decision its a bad one.

 

Would your mother in law be prepared to put something in writing to confirm that she gave you permission to sell the item in advance of you selling it?

 

I think the employer has for the most part gone about things the right way so far, although there are some parts they could have handled better and which might have helped clarify things by now. I don't think there is a basis to take action against them - I would instead concentrate on the defence against the allegations and hopefully avoid the need for formal action. If you feel that the investigation and disciplinary process is not being handled fairly or that your guilt is pre-judged, you could raise a complaint with the company about it.

[mrchrisss]

So, would you suggest I get them to provide me with any evidence they have before the investigation, ie witness statements, cctv or an official complaint from a customer?

 

Would it also be a good thing for me to get a grievance in, stating that they are accusing me of a serious issue with lack of evidence and asking them to supply a reason as to why the previous investigation was wrong?

 

Thank you for your time here by the way!

Edited April 23, 2013 by mrchrisss

[Emmzzi]

you get to see the evidence at a disciplinary, not an investigatory interview.

 

No no no, do not put a grievance in, they may still come away and say your hands are clean! Don't escalate and complicate something where you are sure they have insufficient evidence to make a case!

 

And concentrate on clearing your name, not making them "pay" for an investigation they are entitled to undertake. Selling second hand items from the workplace is leaving yourself open to investigation, truly it is. We've seen people sacked for taking waste goods froma skip and selling them; checking ownership is the right thing for them to do.

 

Your priorities are all wrong here. Focus on clearing your name.

[altobelli]

No problem. Yes, ask to be given any information and evidence which is relevant. And maybe write and ask for the suspension to be lifted. Some of the evidence you mention may not be relevant, such as cctv, as there is no dispute that you took the items, it is the circumstances that are in dispute. Also, sorry to ask again, but did your mother in law authorise you to take the goods before you took them and would she be willing to put this in writing.

 

I wouldn't raise a grievance at the moment - the employer may have been a bit tactless in some places, but they are investigating the possibility of theft, its slightly different at this stage from an outright accusation. If you feel they are being overly accusatory then mention it informally in the first instance. I wouldn't worry too much about why the previous investigation was wrong at the moment, you can deal with that later if need be.

[mrchrisss]

No problem. Yes, ask to be given any information and evidence which is relevant. And maybe write and ask for the suspension to be lifted. Some of the evidence you mention may not be relevant, such as cctv, as there is no dispute that you took the items, it is the circumstances that are in dispute. Also, sorry to ask again, but did your mother in law authorise you to take the goods before you took them and would she be willing to put this in writing.

 

I wouldn't raise a grievance at the moment - the employer may have been a bit tactless in some places, but they are investigating the possibility of theft, its slightly different at this stage from an outright accusation. If you feel they are being overly accusatory then mention it informally in the first instance. I wouldn't worry too much about why the previous investigation was wrong at the moment, you can deal with that later if need be.

 

Yes she did, but I haven't told her what is going on, I'm trying to avoid it because she will feel in some way that it is her fault.

 

The reason I ask about a grievance is because they know that the item isn't stolen yet they are still alleging I did.

[Emmzzi]

My read is they are still investigating and haven;t made any formal accustaions yet, as you haven't been invited to a disciplinary. Is that correct?

[altobelli]

You're certainly entitled to ask to see anything which is uncovered at investigation, they might not be required to give it to you, but they shouldn't unreasonably hold anything back if it will help you. The sooner you see the evidence, the sooner this can be resolved.

 

You should focus on clearing your name, but making sure the investigation is done fairly and properly is part of this process. It takes real skill to do a proper and fair investigation, and investigators often wittingly or unwittingly act in a wy which is not entirely impartial. But don't go out of your way to antagonise the employer.

 

And its not correct to say your actions have 'left you open', it depends on company policy, generally accepted practice and your actions. The presumption should be one of innocence and the investigation should proceed on that basis. If the employer is suspected of 'sniffing around' for problems then this could go badly for them should the matter escalate.

[altobelli]

Yes she did, but I haven't told her what is going on, I'm trying to avoid it because she will feel in some way that it is her fault.

 

The reason I ask about a grievance is because they know that the item isn't stolen yet they are still alleging I did.

 

Then maybe write to them saying that you understood the theft allegation had been disproved, and you would like to clarify whether you are still being investigated for theft. Say that if so, you can get something for your mother in law to prove yo had permission to sell the items. I know you don't want to involve her, but I think it might be best to do so, as you could quickly go a long way to ending the investigation, or at least changing the allegations.

[mrchrisss]

Yeah, had a disciplinary which was 'terminated' for further gathering of info on something that I can clear, a second matter.

 

The new investigation covers the same thing previously investigated, the theft of property from a 'customer' which has already been agreed wasn't stolen.

[mrchrisss]

Then maybe write to them saying that you understood the theft allegation had been disproved, and you would like to clarify whether you are still being investigated for theft. Say that if so, you can get something for your mother in law to prove yo had permission to sell the items. I know you don't want to involve her, but I think it might be best to do so, as you could quickly go a long way to ending the investigation, or at least changing the allegations.

 

The invitation for the second investigation states that it is theft of customers property.

[altobelli]

Then I think you should get something from your mother in law to send to the employer which will disprove the theft allegation.