CCJ But I Live Abroad and Never Knew About It

[Ivan Terrible]

Hi everyone.

 

A few years back had some trouble - sickness, redundancy, the usual crap happening all at once. I had credit card with MBNA. I informed them of my problems, which met with silence. Anyway, in 2009 I received an offer to restart my career abroad. I informed MBNA of my new contact details. Again, heard nothing. All has been fine in my job and life. Out of curiousity, I decided to check my credit file.

 

I have discovered a CCJ from August 2011. IND, who I have read about here, are the responsible (if that's the right word) party. The CCJ was obtained at my mother's address. I had been living there, but it was not my last known UK address. I can't prove that MBNA knew of my relocation - they responded to my recent enquiry that they were no longer dealing with this matter.

 

Basically, the CCJ was obtained on the sly. I have contacted Northampton Court, but they have not told me how I would pay the set aside fee from abroad. Anyone know?

 

Also, IND would claim that I never informed them of my new address. As I'd never had any dealing with them, how could I?

The amount is at least 2.5K higher than the actual debt, so I would have disputed that had I been given the opportunity.

Would I stand a chance of getting this set aside? Or would the court decide that I should have informed IND, a company I have never dealt with, my contact details?

 

Ivan

[citizenB]

I can't prove that MBNA knew of my relocation - they responded to my

recent enquiry that they were no longer dealing with this matter.

 

Where did they respond to.. ? is that a typing error and you CAN prove they knew ?

 

 

Do you have any assets in the UK . Are you planning on returning to the UK ?

 

How did you inform MBNA of your new address in writing or on the telephone ? It should have been entered onto the communication logs - which you can access by way of a Subject Access Request and which would cost you £10.00 statutory fee.

[unclebulgaria67]

This CCJ is only on your UK credit record and will never appear on your foreign record. If they found you, they could try to enforce the CCJ in your local court, but given the cost they might not bother.

 

Are you likely to return to the UK to reside ?

 

You can apply to a UK court to set aside the CCJ, but you or a representative would have to attend a hearing. If this is really important to you, because you are likely to return to the UK to live, then I would suggest using a UK Solicitor to do the set aside for you.

[Ivan Terrible]

Where did they respond to.. ? is that a typing error and you CAN prove they knew ?

 

 

Do you have any assets in the UK . Are you planning on returning to the UK ?

 

How did you inform MBNA of your new address in writing or on the telephone ? It should have been entered onto the communication logs - which you can access by way of a Subject Access Request and which would cost you £10.00 statutory fee.

 

They responded via email, informing me that they were no longer dealing with the matter.

I informed MBNA via telephone and they informed me that their records had been updated. However, when I later wrote to them I received no reply.

 

I have absolutely no assets in the UK. Never owned property, don't drive etc.

I have no immediate plans to return, but if things should change I'd like to get this off my record. I'm pretty confident that I can challenge this debt - it's the wrong amount, I doubt IND have the necessary paperwork, etc. I just don't want to spend money applying for a set aside if the court is not going to do so.

[Ivan Terrible]

This CCJ is only on your UK credit record and will never appear on your foreign record. If they found you, they could try to enforce the CCJ in your local court, but given the cost they might not bother.

 

Are you likely to return to the UK to reside ?

 

You can apply to a UK court to set aside the CCJ, but you or a representative would have to attend a hearing. If this is really important to you, because you are likely to return to the UK to live, then I would suggest using a UK Solicitor to do the set aside for you.

 

I'd not be able to return for the hearing. The cost of flights, etc might be too much. And paying a solicitor might be quite a cost also. Is there anyway the matter could be dealt with without a hearing?

[unclebulgaria67]

I'd not be able to return for the hearing. The cost of flights, etc might be too much. And paying a solicitor might be quite a cost also. Is there anyway the matter could be dealt with without a hearing?

 

You may be able to do a telephone hearing from abroad. You would have to make the request to do this, when applying for the set aside.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/telephone-hearings

 

Have a look into this and see whether this is a possibility. If not, then I would suggest leaving this alone and if you return to the UK to reside, you can deal with the CCJ at that time. A CCJ set aside must be requested promptly upon finding out about it. If a Judge thinks that the set aside is too long after the judgement it won't work and you would have to make some other application based on other problems with the CCJ.

[citizenB]

They responded via email, informing me that they were no longer dealing with the matter.

I informed MBNA via telephone and they informed me that their records had been updated. However, when I later wrote to them I received no reply.

 

I have absolutely no assets in the UK. Never owned property, don't drive etc.

I have no immediate plans to return, but if things should change I'd like to get this off my record. I'm pretty confident that I can challenge this debt - it's the wrong amount, I doubt IND have the necessary paperwork, etc. I just don't want to spend money applying for a set aside if the court is not going to do so.

 

Whether or not they were dealing with the matter, they would have been advised. It looks like obtaining the communication log would resolve that issue for you.

 

A CCJ will drop off your credit file and trustonline after 6 years.

 

When paperwork was sent to your Mother's address, what did she do with it ? Return it to sender ?

[Ivan Terrible]

 

A CCJ will drop off your credit file and trustonline after 6 years.

 

When paperwork was sent to your Mother's address, what did she do with it ? Return it to sender ?

 

After 6 years though a CCJ can still be enforced. I believe they would have to return to the courts and explain why they had not enforced within 6 years.

 

Yes, all mail was returned to sender, marked "no longer at this address". Also, IND were informed over the telephone by my mother that I was no longer resident in the UK. She informed them of my country of residence, yet thet still applied for the CCJ.

[Ivan Terrible]

. If not, then I would suggest leaving this alone and if you return to the UK to reside, you can deal with the CCJ at that time. A CCJ set aside must be requested promptly upon finding out about it. If a Judge thinks that the set aside is too long after the judgement it won't work and you would have to make some other application based on other problems with the CCJ.

 

I've only found out about it after checking my file recently. What other application would I be able to make?

[unclebulgaria67]

I've only found out about it after checking my file recently. What other application would I be able to make?

 

I was thinking that if you did not dispute the debt, just the amount of debt. I believe that you could apply to have the debt amount looked at and the amount of judgement amended. Perhaps then with a reduced amount, you would choose to settle the debt.

[Ivan Terrible]

So have the following options:

1. Ignore it. If I never return and it's unenforceable here...... But maybe something happens and I have to return?

2. Apply to have it set aside......... no guarantee this will work, and I will have to pay a tidy sum to find out.

3. Make a full and final offer........ for how much? Alleged debt is about 7K. Real debt is less. What might they settle for?

[renegadeimp]

After 6 years though a CCJ can still be enforced. I believe they would have to return to the courts and explain why they had not enforced within 6 years.

 

Technically yes. In reality it almost never happens. Theres probably less than 1% chance a judge would grant enforcement orders.

[unclebulgaria67]

So have the following options:

1. Ignore it. If I never return and it's unenforceable here...... But maybe something happens and I have to return?

2. Apply to have it set aside......... no guarantee this will work, and I will have to pay a tidy sum to find out.

3. Make a full and final offer........ for how much? Alleged debt is about 7K. Real debt is less. What might they settle for?

 

I would choose option 1, if it were me and if I had to return to the UK, I would deal with it as necessary. For these debt companies, it is a numbers game. They apply for a load of CCJ's and if they collect on a certain percentage of these, they will make a good profit

 

If you choose option 3, it will be acknowledging the debt. I suspect that they would want 20% of the debts current value, to consider it as full settlement.

[renegadeimp]

To add to option 3, they probably bought that debt for the equiv of £50-£100. THe bad debts are bought in huge numbers and they pay a certain sum for the entire amount.

[Ivan Terrible]

Thanks so much for everyone's advice. Very appreciated.

Igore it for now seems best idea. Certainly not returning to UK in forseeable future. The only nagging thought is that one about the unforseen circumstance. Something happens to put me back in UK. 6 years+ after CCJ, so it's off credit file, but is still enforceable. That could prove tricky. 20% of current value would be possible, but nothing more. I'm in quite a low paid profession, but I'm now in a much cheaper environment.

As the CCJ never expires, they could reapply - claim they couldn't find me etc. If I contacted them, not admitting any debt, giving details of my location they could not then claim that could they?

[citizenB]

After 6 years though a CCJ can still be enforced. I believe they would have to return to the courts and explain why they had not enforced within 6 years.

 

Yes, all mail was returned to sender, marked "no longer at this address". Also, IND were informed over the telephone by my mother that I was no longer resident in the UK. She informed them of my country of residence, yet thet still applied for the CCJ.

 

 

I would think that you stood a good chance of having it set aside then.

[Ivan Terrible]

If I did return to the UK - and this currently looks very unlikely -after the six year period, could the DCA claim that they had not acted on the CCJ because I was out of the country? The court might believe this to be reasonable. So the scenario would be CCJ applied while I was out of the country, nothing happens for x number of years, I return and the DCA reapplies stating that they couldn't collect because I was out of the country. Wouldn't they be undermining themselves, by admitting the original CCJ was incorrectly applied for?

And one other question (sorry): can a CCJ be sold on to other DCAs? I think, not. CCJ states X owes Y; Z can't collect unless court agrees change.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Action should not be taken after 6 years from the date of judgement, very, very unlikely to be allowed

to reinstate.

[cerberusalert]

And one other question (sorry): can a CCJ be sold on to other DCAs? I think, not. CCJ states X owes Y; Z can't collect unless court agrees change.

Yes a CCJ can be sold on but it will need to be registered in the new DCA's name otherwise they cannot apply to legally enforce it & as said certainly not if it's older than six years without the courts permission which is rarely if ever given.

[Ivan Terrible]

Action should not be taken after 6 years from the date of judgement, very, very unlikely to be allowed

to reinstate.

I've been searching for any information on cases where the court has allowed to reinstate. As you have said, it's very unlikely and I haven't found any. Just think the court might allow them to do it since they were allowed the CCJ by default in the first place

[Ivan Terrible]

Also, is reinstating a CCJ an action - therefore not allowed after 6 years? Or how is an action defined?

[renegadeimp]

CCJ's can be enforced after 6years, but in reality this almost never happens. In the judges eyes, the creditor has had 6 years to get the debt enforced. Tough luck to them if they try after the limitation period.

[unclebulgaria67]

The point is that on the same day as they applied for your court claim, the applied for many others. It is all done online these days. It is a numbers game, about getting an overall return. They don't always follow up, with enforcement action taken for every debt.

 

They will have been checking your credit record for any continuing credit activity or changes, from which they will see no activity. When you come back to the UK and you apply for anything which requires any credit check or updates, then no doubt this will be picked up by whoever owns the debt. Don't be surprised, if they don't even know about any CCJ. There are many reports on CAG of people being chased for debts, where the debt companies don't even know that a CCJ was obtained previously. So the chances of any debt owner going back to court asking for a judge to continue enforcement beyond 6 years is very unlikely.

 

Ignore this and get on with your life. If you decide to contact the debt owner because this is worrying you, then you will have to see what you can do to resolve the debt. If you tell them that you have no plans on returning to the UK, they might be willing to accept a much reduced amount to settle the debt in full. Then if you did have to return to the UK at any time, there would not be a debt hanging around that might cause you hassle.

 

This is your choice and you will have to think about it.

[renegadeimp]

Nope. You are overthinking it now. 6 years elapse with no enforcement = bye bye debt and bye bye CCJ.

[Ivan Terrible]

Nope. You are overthinking it now. 6 years elapse with no enforcement = bye bye debt and bye bye CCJ.

 

Yes, I do tend to over-complicate matters

Just would like it water-tight in case I ever did return. Never say never and all that.

No enforcement means harder to reinstate. And, if sold on the debt is statute barred (not the CCJ). Unless I've got that wrong...?