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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Hi - thought I posted yesterday but seems to have disappeared....

 

Am currently self employed after losing my job a couple of years ago, things have been very slow & ive been unlucky with losing a big client that was 50% of my income.

 

Have been robbing Peter to pay Paul, but things have come to a head & we need to take control before they really get out of control.

 

My debt

Nationwide - £4500

Capital One - £250

Wonga - £1000

 

Patner debt

Nationwide - £2500

Virgin - £2900

Barclaycard - £2500

 

 

We cannot meet all the minimum payments each month, if I send reduced payment offers to mine, we could probably just about pay hers but again only minimums.

 

Would we be better informing all creditors we are struggling, freeze interest & make offers or would it be better to keep her credit clear if we can ?

 

I'm confident in 6 months to a year my income will increase again, and I don;t want to ruin both our credit files for what is only 6 months of reduced payments - any advice ?

 

Also is it worth CCA these accounts ?

 

Appreciate any help.

 

Thanks

Mark

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Certainly worth looking into the charges on these accounts and making CCA requests for credit cards/loans, if the accounts were arranged many moons ago.

 

In your situation, you should advise any creditors of any hardship issues and inability to pay the minimum amounts required. Keep this in writing. You should also obtain advice from Step Change the debt advice charity, to see what options are best. It may be a case of offering token payments to all creditors for a period, until you are in a better position.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry for my late response - appreciate your advise.

 

My main concerns / questions are:-

1. If I offer token payments that will mark an arrangement on my credit file which will stay there for ages & i've read in most cases a default would be a better option.

2. Would I be better not paying anything and getting the account defaulted

3. If I go down this route, should it just be my debts or do it for my partners to ?

 

The hardship situation is likely to only be for 6 months or so, but seems from what I've read that not paying & defaulting would have a beneficial effect on my credit file than paying smaller token amounts for 6 months ??

 

Seems like madness - can anyone offer advise ?

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wont matter what you do

by financial association

one will trash the others file.

 

diff call.

 

I think you need to accept credit rating will go whatever you do.

 

that realised

 

token payments might be the way to go.

 

you might find it useful to try this method:

 

TELL [dont ask] them they are only going to get £xxPCM for xx mts

as a goodwill gesture

and as a reciprocal GOGW they must freeze int & refrain from levying PENALTY charges.

if they wont

drop them to £1PCM for life.

.

as an example>

.

I am currently in financial difficulties and not able to meet my normal monthly repayments.

to show my goodwill, i am going to pay £5 for 6 mts.

 

i will update you in 6mts time or before, should my situation change.

.

could you please as a reciprocal goodwill guesture,

.

refrain from levying any penalty charges & freeze the interest on my account.?

.

Should you fail to assist me during a period of financial difficulty, contrary to all the guidelines and codes

issued by the relevent bodies and authorities that govern you and the way you conduct yourselves.

.

i shall have no alternative but to reduce my offer to £1PCM for the rest of the life of the account,

.

.

as your actions would do nothing to help me.

.

i thank you for your time.

..

.

dx

.

then pay by your internet banking site

.

and get reclaiming

.

TAKE CONTROL

.

or

if you have sent the above and they refuse

then write back........

.

.

i'm sorry, but you have failed to assist me during a period of financial difficulty, against all the guidelines and codes

issued by the relevent bodies and authorities that govern you and the way you conduct yourselves.

i repeat again, the contents of my letter dated dd/mm/yyyy, for want of clarification:

to show my goodwill, i am going to pay £XX for XX mts

could you please as a reciprocal goodwill guesture, refraining from levying any penalty charges & freeze the interest on my account.

i will update you in 6mts time or before, should my situation chance.

should you fail to help by refraining from levying unlawful PENALTY charges & freeze my interest,

i shall have no alternative but to reduce my offer to £1PCM for the rest of the life of the account,

as your actions are doing nothing to help me.

This is contrary to the rules you should operate under.

disgruntled account holder

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for advice here.

 

Quick question.... Not looking for credit immediately, and realise credit files for both of us could be shot for 6 years.

Would I be better not paying anything and getting defaulted, so that its 6 years from that date?

 

Have read that token payments & arrangements can affect credit for longer?

 

Long way off but would like a mortgage in future, if 6 years is what it takes so be it... But don't want it to be much longer....

 

 

Thanks again.

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Not true.

 

A default will most likely be placed if you are lucky.

 

Part paying even an agreed amount means you are in default of the original agreement.

 

Creditors that do not default you will mark your file as late and then as in an arrangement to pay.

 

As they haven't placed a default this account will continue to be reported until you finish paying it

and then for 6 years after the account is closed;

 

it puts you in a much worse position.

 

Get yourself defaulted then at least the account will drop off 6 years later, paid or not.

 

You can still make an arrangement to pay post default if everything is in order.

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Thanks Broke,

 

So to clarify we would be better, not paying anything get the defaults registered, then make token payments if we wish ?

 

1. If we decided to NOT make token payments and default , are we likely to be hounded more than by arranging payments ?

 

2. If our situation changes in 6 - 12 months, and we could start clearing the debt, would we have any chance of having the defaults removed ?

I'm 99.9% sure the answer is going to be no... in which case other than morally where is our incentive to pay ?, we may as well send off correspondence & wait out the 6 years, accepting we may be hounded for a while.......

 

Seems wrong, but this seems to be the impression i'm getting form what i've read... ?

 

And we can claim back for charges & PPI in the meantime.......

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OK.

I can tell you for both scenarios as I have both types of accounts.

 

I have closed out most with a F&F (but not for the purposes of cleaning up my credit file).

 

I have some accounts that defaulted and will therefore drop off in less than 2 years.

 

I have another brought by a DCA but not defaulted.

This account whilst now closed will continue to be reported for 6 years.

So, much better to default if you are hoping to clean up your credit file.

It is a stupid, stupid system that rewards non payers over people who attempt to pay.

 

to clarify we would be better,

not paying anything get the defaults registered, then make token payments if we wish ? IMHO yes

 

1. If we decided to NOT make token payments and default , are we likely to be hounded more than by arranging payments ? Probably at which point CCA and SAR

 

2. If our situation changes in 6 - 12 months, and we could start clearing the debt,

would we have any chance of having the defaults removed ?

No but your file will already have been trashed so better to know it will drop off in e.g. 5 years than soldier on for 5 years

and then find it will continue to be reported for a further 6 years!

 

I'm 99.9% sure the answer is going to be no...

in which case other than morally where is our incentive to pay ?,

we may as well send off correspondence & wait out the 6 yearslink3.gif,

accepting we may be hounded for a while.....

..yes but you need to keep all paperwork and get your CCA etc in as more collectors are going down the court route,.

Unfortunately recent changes to secure unsecured loans will encourage litigation.

 

Seems wrong, but this seems to be the impression i'm getting form what i've read... ? Totally mad system

 

And we can claim back for charges & PPIlink3.gif in the meantime....... Absolutely. Get on with it!

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I would think whatever you do

you will be defaulted.

 

just lookout for mention of the AP [arrangement to pay marker]

 

you DONT want that as you'll never get rid of it.

 

 

there are no problems with still reclaiming

however remember many creditors wriggle if the charges are over 6yrs old

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX & Broke,

 

Broke your last post - could you clarify ?

- What does the CCA pre 2007 have to do with it ? (guessing theres lots more reading for me to do !)

 

Would it be worthwhile me opening a thread detailing this if I need help along the way, do I need a separate thread per creditor ?

 

Thanks

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Agreements signed pre april 2007,

 

creditors need a copy of the original agreement to obtain a CCJ,

 

though they can still request payment,

default the ac and update credit reference agencies.

 

Pers I wouldnt pay anything or make any arrangements until the accs are defaulted.,

 

also you mention you have PPI

 

-youll be amazed how much your reclaims will be worth when the compund interest is added to your reclaims

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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Thanks - do most of them make CCJ's ?

Is there an amount it has to be over to be worthwhile or does it just depend on the creditor ?

 

Not sure if I have PPI or not yet to be honest, but will certainly explore it !

 

Also have a number of accounts which I still have account numbers for that are over 10 years old, sure these had PPI, but not confident on these being easy to obtain...

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Dont worry your a long way off any legal action, get the paperwork together as a first step. Once accs are defaulted and they start chasing you then CCA requests to each creditor. Info for old accs can be obtained by way of a SAR request sent with a £10 fee

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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HI,

 

One thing I for got is that we also have overdraft debt !

 

Halifax - £4950

Nationwide - £1500

 

Is there a different process for overdrafts ?

 

Guessing better to just open new 'safe' bank account & then not pay or contact until defaulted ? like the credit cards ?

 

Thanks

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you can sar them yes.

 

prob lots of OD fees anyway

 

you cant CCa OD's though

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes will be lots of OD fees !

 

On all of above is it better to just ignore totally until defaulted or write to them saying we cannot pay anything & can they freeze interest etc....

 

Though I guess we would need to offer token payments & thats when the AP marker comes in ???

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they poss might use AP markers

few creditors do though.

 

so for the minute

neither of your cra files shows any defaluts

and you not got any default notices yet?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No nothing..... both our files are pretty clean except i'm 2 months late with Nationwide credit card & Capital one.

 

But we are currently paying nearly £500 a month in minimum payments which we cannot continue to do,

I'm happy to send them token payment offers, but really don;t want the AP marker. So planning on ignoring for few months until defaulted..... ?

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urm..

 

my thougths are to follow post 4.

 

TELL don't ASK.

 

they'll default you anyway.

 

if they do AP you

 

then stop paying that creditor

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks - will give this a try....

Is it the same for overdrafts ? i.e. same letter offer ? as there are no monthly minimum payments on overdrafts...

 

 

And i'll start getting organised with regards to claiming back charges & any PPI

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get your income out of any bank with od's

 

same ish process leave those for now

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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