Where do we stand?

[Mummytotwox]

Hubby has been in his job for 3 years, he's a carpenters assistant. It's good pay and he loves it. He works hard and only had two days off sick in the three years.

 

So him and the other carpenters assistant was called into the office on Friday, and told because of lack of work they are letting one of them go and keeping the other on, fair enough, on the same day the main boss employed two of his best friends for outdoor work.

 

OH has worked his butt off, he spends every lunch making things with off cuts of wood. The other guy is off work alot but has been there 6 years and is friend with one of the bosses. I really feel like OH will be let off. Surely they can't get rid of someone when he's just taken on two mates and agency workers?! :.(

Edited March 10, 2013 by honeybee13

[honeybee13]

Hello there, I'm sorry to hear about your problems. I hope the forum guys will be along later with advice for you.

 

I've taken out your OH's name to keep this anonymous for you, just in case.

 

My best, HB

[becky2585]

Hello

 

What roles have the agency workers and his friends been placed into? Has hubby said what criteria, if any, the company are using to decide who is made redundant?

[Mummytotwox]

Hello

 

What roles have the agency workers and his friends been placed into? Has hubby said what criteria, if any, the company are using to decide who is made redundant?

 

They have been put on off hires, meaning they out down whatever comes back to the yard.

 

There going on points, like work, attendance, experience

[Sidewinder]

Length of service should also be a valid criteria - longer serving staff are more expensive to get rid of!

 

I would be using any consultation to ask PRECISELY what criteria are to be used, and if length of service isn't to be taken into account, ask why not? During redundancy consultation, the gloves tend to come off in terms of asking questions that might otherwise be a little sensitive. Get the employer to justify their reasoning.

[Mummytotwox]

Yeah they other bloke has been there for 6 years, but gets told off for talking and has had more time off, but it older (45) x

[becky2585]

How long are they consulting for? Is your husbands job substantially different to the new recruits?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but they are important!

[Mummytotwox]

He was send home on Friday until weds, the jobs that have been offered out are different, but OH does them when there's no work normally. But there the main bosses best friends that's been brought in, or agency workers x

[Mummytotwox]

Anyone?

[Pusillanimous]

Nepotism is not unlawful, unfortunately. Is there any other reason they might have singled your husband out (for example, perhaps he is much older than the ones being kept on)?

[Atlas01]

Length of service should also be a valid criteria - longer serving staff are more expensive to get rid of!

 

I would be using any consultation to ask PRECISELY what criteria are to be used, and if length of service isn't to be taken into account, ask why not? During redundancy consultation, the gloves tend to come off in terms of asking questions that might otherwise be a little sensitive. Get the employer to justify their reasoning.

 

From my redundancy dealings (2 yrs ago) this became a no no as it opens up potential age discrimination claims. I know the legal advise i got when i wanted LOS Negotiating in was "NO CHANCE"

[Mummytotwox]

Hubby received a letter today and it does say they will take into consideration the LOS.

[becky2585]

It's a grey area. Basically, there needs to be a reduced need for employees to do that role. They also need to consult over the redundancy. That includes exploring alternative vacancies.

 

Your husband should ask for one of the new employees to be bumped out of their role if he's interested in doing their jobs. He can also ask why agency staff have been recruited for a role he could potentially do. Cost alone isn't usuly justification for making people redundant !

[Mummytotwox]

He's redone his cv and taking tht in too, would that look professional? The other guy is always on about leaving and wanting another job, should hubby tell them this?

[becky2585]

He's redone his cv and taking tht in too, would that look professional? The other guy is always on about leaving and wanting another job, should hubby tell them this?

 

Taking a CV in isn't usually done in this situation, but if it would help his scores then it wouldn't hurt.

 

It's up to your husband whether he wants to get involved in mud slinging to save his own job - moral dilemma for him to face, I think!

[Mummytotwox]

He got his score point chart thing today, he score 36, we think the other guy is deffo going to get less, this was due to a written warning 2 years ago.

[ericsbrother]

Grounds for challenge as unfair dismissal as it isnt properly redundancy as the work is still there. However, the words "operational reasons" can come into play and employing agency staff can be used as an argument that the work is not there and only limited hours/short term etc.

Cant really offer much that will help as his smployer seems to have made the decision already. i hope that it goes well though.

[Mummytotwox]

He lost his job, he went in with his cv ect and his boss wouldn't even listen to him. He would hear what he had got to say. X

[becky2585]

He lost his job, he went in with his cv ect and his bos wouldn't even listen to him. He would hear what he had got to say. X

 

Sorry to hear that. Might be worth a free consultation with a solicitor to see if he has a case?

[Sidewinder]

From my redundancy dealings (2 yrs ago) this became a no no as it opens up potential age discrimination claims. I know the legal advise i got when i wanted LOS Negotiating in was "NO CHANCE"

 

It depends on the other criteria that are used. LOS can be used legitimately as one of a range of criteria, but should not be used a sole selection method.

[Skinnered]

The whole process from start to finish seems to have taken less than a week. Questionable?

[Emmzzi]

The whole process from start to finish seems to have taken less than a week. Questionable?

 

for a small company? no.

 

general change principle for bad things - get it over with. uncertainty causes stress and drop in performance. Let people move on with their lives.

[Mummytotwox]

It's Abigail company lol he works for peri ltd, he Los got 3.5k redundancy when he's only been there 3years

[Skinnered]

The size of the company and the numbers involved do not alter the fact that a recognised procedure and consultation process be followed.

 

Check out ACAS Guidelines:

 

Consultation - Good Practice

In all organisations, regardless of company size and the number of employees to be dismissed, employers should consult with appropriate trade unions or employee representatives as soon as practicable and as fully as possible. Employers should consult at an early enough stage to allow discussion as to whether the proposed redundancies are necessary at all.

The consultation process should precede any public announcement of the redundancy programme and the issue of notices of termination. Such notices should not be issued until the consultation process has been completed.

 

Consultation - With Individuals

Employers should ensure that employees are made aware of the contents of any agreed procedure and of the opportunities available for consultation and for making representations. Case law has shown that dismissals have been found to be unfair where a union has been consulted but not the individual. It is therefore best practice that individuals who are to be made redundant are consulted, irrespective of the size of the company or the length of service of the employee. They are more likely to react in a constructive way following consultation and may be able to suggest alternatives to redundacy.

 

 

 

 

A tribunal would more than likely find the dismissal to be unfair in the first five minutes where it can be shown that not even a semblance of a procedure was followed.

[Emmzzi]

Skinnered, case law please