Sending a personal account of illness with ESA50?

[Zarbafi]

I am off to post my ESA50 today but wondered if it would help to add in some additional information aout my condition and how it affects me. I filled in the ESA50 with the help of a CAB advisor and have some additional "offical" evidence but I feel that I did not have the chance to give as much detail as I would like for example my pervious unsuccessful treatment or medication, details about the circumstances that worsen my condition etc which are only partly covered in the ESA50 form.

 

This account is just a typed statement by me but I felt it might help in case the ATOS HCP might try to put that my condition could be controlled by X drug when I might have already been on it and it didn't work or had serious side effects.

 

Is this worth doing?

[Invalidation]

I am off to post my ESA50 today but wondered if it would help to add in some additional information aout my condition and how it affects me. I filled in the ESA50 with the help of a CAB advisor and have some additional "offical" evidence but I feel that I did not have the chance to give as much detail as I would like for example my pervious unsuccessful treatment or medication, details about the circumstances that worsen my condition etc which are only partly covered in the ESA50 form.

 

This account is just a typed statement by me but I felt it might help in case the ATOS HCP might try to put that my condition could be controlled by X drug when I might have already been on it and it didn't work or had serious side effects.

 

Is this worth doing?

 

IMHO it never hurts to include extra information. I included with my ESA 50 a history of my disability going back to its start in the 70's and also another printed sheet stating an average day. Though I did state that no day was average, they might start off that way but a simple 5 minute trip to the toilet can change everything. Finally I included a statement of how my condition affects and changes my day compared to a 'normal ' persons day.

[Guest]

fully agreeing here with invalidation.......as much info as possible is the best idea.

[cleaver]

I felt it might help in case the ATOS HCP might try to put that my condition could be controlled by X drug when I might have already been on it and it didn't work or had serious side effects.

 

Is this worth doing?

 

What planet do you live on? ATOS only very rarely look at or read anything that you send in with the ESA50! You shouldn't even be thinking that ATOS are fair minded and will try and understand what your problems are and have been. They are there to administer a system that is geared towards failing you. Even the software that ATOS use is totally biased towards failure.

 

Then when the DWP get involved they will treat the ATOS report as primary evidence simply because it will be the only evidence that they will have that tests you against the descriptors that make up ESA. The DWP may have other evidence that you have sent in but it is almost certain that it will not indicate which descriptor appies to you.

 

In my own case I 'dumped' a bound 40 odd page report containing all sorts of medical evidence including a Social Services OT report, Social Worker report, a copy of my enhanced psychiatric care plan but none of it made any difference. The ATOS assessment gave me 0 points and that is what the DWP confirmed - get a job! I wasted my time and energy expecting ATOS/DWP to be reasonable and fair minded people - I might just as well have sent them a whole wad of used toilet paper!

Previously I had been in the Support Group for 3 years!

Edited February 19, 2013 by cleaver

[Nystagmite]

I would do that personally. You need to give them as much information as you can. They do need to know how your disabilities affect you.

[cleaver]

I would do that personally. You need to give them as much information as you can. They do need to know how your disabilities affect you.

 

I understand what you are saying, but that only applies in the ideal world. A world that ATOS and the DWP don't work in.

 

The regulations clearly state that it is for ATOS and the DWP to obtain the evidence they need in order to make a well thought out and structured decision.

[Guest]

regardless of what they do with it....should it come to tribunal and you HAVE given all the info possible, and its enough then that will help you win the case probably before you even get there as the tribunal read it all beforehand and dwp cannot say they didn't have all the info when making their stupid decision.

 

cleaver I know what you mean but we all know that atos and dwp don't seek evidence, they lose it if they can.......

 

as much info and evidence sent and proven to be sent to them is best in the long run ....

[Guest]

I say this re tribunal as I didn't actually even get into the room for mine........I was told in reception after booking in, the guy came out and said that they had looked at all the evidence and found in my favour and no need to put me through going in there........so....it IS worth it, and saved me a lot of anguish on that day.

[Nystagmite]

I sent letters stating how my disability affects me in the case of work and adjustments needed, etc. I got into the support group without a face to face.

 

So yeah, it is worth doing.

[Guest]

i was also told that the "burden of proof" was on the claimant to provide evidence and NOT for the dwp/atos to find.......guess that has changed?

[Nystagmite]

I don't think I've read anything that says ATOS / DWP have to find the information for you. They may contact your GP if they feel it's relevant.

[Guest]

they don't Nystagmite.....it is for the claimant to prove their illness not for the dwp/atos to prove, although they have the choice whether to seek further info from doctors etc. the burden of proof is ours not theirs, so if we don't bother to provide it then we scupper ourselves.

[estellyn]

Yes, always provide as much info as possible. It might not be read by the ATOS assessor, but it does stand you in good stead at the Tribunal - especially if the ATOS drone has fabricated stuff that is contrary to what you have written - it makes you look more consistent and the ATOS assessor less consistent.

[cleaver]

regardless of what they do with it....should it come to tribunal and you HAVE given all the info possible, and its enough then that will help you win the case probably before you even get there as the tribunal read it all beforehand and dwp cannot say they didn't have all the info when making their stupid decision.

 

cleaver I know what you mean but we all know that atos and dwp don't seek evidence, they lose it if they can.......

 

as much info and evidence sent and proven to be sent to them is best in the long run ....

 

You may well be right, but I would point out that a Tribunal looks at the whole claim/case from scratch. They aren't interested as to what you sent, when and to whom, what they are interested in is what has been sent to them.

 

I would agree that your evidence should be sent to the Tribunal no later than 14 days before the hearing date.

 

That is the reason as to why the DWP became a little humpty when they learned that so many decisions were being overturned. They were told that evidence was neiher submitted by the claimant or sought by ATOS/DWP to them, but only to the Tribunal (I wonder why?)

So in March 2011 they changed the ESA50 and the notes that it came with to ask that they (ATOS/DWP) are sent the evidence first. Previously they made a point of saying that NO evidence must be sent in with the ESA50.

 

The one and only reason for this U turn is that both ATOS and the DWP appeared to all and sundry that they were not up to the job and wanted to improve their public standing.

 

As there is no absolute requirement in law to help them get out of the hole they are in by sending in evidence with the ESA50, you will not and cannot be penalised by the Tribunal for not helping ATOS/DWP improve their public image.

 

The only truly 'independent' (generally) review of all of the evidence is that that is carried out by the Tribunal. There are three (generally) that sit on the panel, a qualified disability expert, an experienced solicitor and a qualified doctor. Compare that to ATOS who employ nurses etc and a DWP decision maker that knows very little about medical matters and how they would affect someone's abilities.

 

Who would you put your trust and faith in to get the right answer - the Tribunal or ATOS/DWP?

[cleaver]

I say this re tribunal as I didn't actually even get into the room for mine........I was told in reception after booking in, the guy came out and said that they had looked at all the evidence and found in my favour and no need to put me through going in there........so....it IS worth it, and saved me a lot of anguish on that day.

 

As I have said, make sure the evidence is sent to the tribunal 14 days before the hearing date. There is no need to send it in any earlier, it doesn't get read until the morning of the hearing.

[cleaver]

I sent letters stating how my disability affects me in the case of work and adjustments needed, etc. I got into the support group without a face to face.

 

So yeah, it is worth doing.

 

Of course there will always be the exception! I was in the SG for the past 3 years and on review (same conditions, only worse + a lot of others that had developed in those 3 years) and after a F2F assessment and after doing what you all say should be done (sending evidence in to ATOS), the DWP have told me to get a job as i am no longer eligible for ESA!!

[honeybee13]

Of course there will always be the exception! I was in the SG for the past 3 years and on review (same conditions, only worse + a lot of others that had developed in those 3 years) and after a F2F assessment and after doing what you all say should be done (sending evidence in to ATOS), the DWP have told me to get a job as i am no longer eligible for ESA!!

 

Hello cleaver.

 

That sounds terrible for you. Is that income-related ESA please? In order not to stop the flow of zarbafi's thread, shall I start a new thread for you?

 

My best, HB

[cleaver]

i was also told that the "burden of proof" was on the claimant to provide evidence and NOT for the dwp/atos to find.......guess that has changed?

 

There is no 'burden of proof' involved. The ESA50 is the only evidence that you are required under law to submit. However under the SS (Claims & Payments) Regulations 1987, regs 7 & 32, you can be required to submit to the DWP whatever evidence you are holding within 1 month. Failure to submit that evidence your claim will more than likely be closed down.

That is the only 'burden' you are under.

 

The ESA Regs make it clear that both ATOS & the DWP are obliged to obtain evidence that will help them make the correct decision, either using Regs 7 & 32 above or by applying for it from the GP, Consultants or anybody else that may be able to help. Hence the reason why some Tribunals get very annoyed with the DWP for not requesting backing evidence leaving it to the Tribunal themselves to request medical reports.

[RaeUK]

It is always advisable to send as much supporting evidence - whatever that may be - with your ESA50.

[honeybee13]

There is no 'burden of proof' involved. The ESA50 is the only evidence that you are required under law to submit. However under the SS (Claims & Payments) Regulations 1987, regs 7 & 32, you can be required to submit to the DWP whatever evidence you are holding within 1 month. Failure to submit that evidence your claim will more than likely be closed down.

That is the only 'burden' you are under.

 

The ESA Regs make it clear that both ATOS & the DWP are obliged to obtain evidence that will help them make the correct decision, either using Regs 7 & 32 above or by applying for it from the GP, Consultants or anybody else that may be able to help. Hence the reason why some Tribunals get very annoyed with the DWP for not requesting backing evidence leaving it to the Tribunal themselves to request medical reports.

 

Hello again. Is there any chance of a link to the regulations please?

 

HB

[Guest]

I was referring to my claim....which was IB and for that there was burden of proof as stated in dwp paperwork....I realise this was about ESA which is different, however, it surely makes sense to send all evidence in and then they are informed, I was told that sending further evidence while waiting was ok but not to leave it that close to the tribunal as they don't appreciate having to go through new evidence that late due to workloads and amount of tribunals....I cant see anything lost by sending it all in at the start. For me it helped, which was all I was saying. send it don't send it, everyones choice, it just doesn't seem to make sense to keep it until that late.

 

I feel the same as you about the dwp they are a piece of work to say the least and I make no secret of that. I cant see dwp or atos actually looking to prove anyone right but more to do the opposite in any way they can, hence our evidence is important for us, and doing all we can to provide it.

[Guest]

what they have done to you is disgraceful Cleaver.......and I wont be surprised if same happens to me. And I totally agree that I would prefer to put my trust in the tribunal any day of the week. And thankyou for the pointers re the new regulations.

[cleaver]

Hello cleaver.

 

That sounds terrible for you. Is that income-related ESA please? In order not to stop the flow of zarbafi's thread, shall I start a new thread for you?

 

My best, HB

 

Hi HB,

 

No it's OK thanks. I was only trying to show how people are treated differently with ATOS/DWP. Not everyone that makes the effort to do the 'right thing' is as lucky as Nystagmite was.

 

No mine was contribution based ESA from the original claim made in Sept 09.

 

I will have to go to the Tribunal now or face no money!

[cleaver]

Hello again. Is there any chance of a link to the regulations please?

 

HB

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/21/made

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/22/made

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/36/made

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/37/made

 

To put it in its simplest of forms:

 

(a)evidence of limited capability for work in accordance with the Medical Evidence Regulations (which prescribe the form of doctor’s statement or other evidence required in each case); MED3 & ESA85a/ESA85

 

(b)any information relating to a claimant’s capability to perform the activities referred to in Schedule 2 as may be requested in the form of a questionnaire ESA50 or other such form that is issued by the DWP and

 

©any such additional information as may be requested. Any other evidence that may be required by the DWP.

Edited February 19, 2013 by cleaver

[honeybee13]

That looks comprehensive, thank you.

 

HB