ESA Decision :( Any Advice please.

[buster1967]

Hi. This is my first post so I am sorry if it's in the wrong place.

First of all I want to give a little background in the hope someone can offer a bit of advice.

I am my wife's carer and have been for the last ten/eleven years, She current receives both the high rate components of the DLA benefit. This was made indef in 2007. She was also in receipt of incapacity benefit. In Nov 2012 we received the ESA 50. I filled it in with help and sent off a lot of supporting evidence in the form of letters from both of my wife O.T's stating her difficulties in both mobilizing for any distance on a flat level ground, trouble and difficulty in transferring from one seat to another without the help of someone else, they also stated facts that my wife suffers blackouts. And also bowl incontinence while awake. This was all backed up with a letter from her GP he also went onto say that my wife due to her disabilities could not care for herself. We have heard nothing until yesterday. We got the dreaded brown envelope. It states that she has been placed into the WRAG both contribution and income related. She did not have to attend a medical.

It does not state on the letter anywhere how they made the decision or what they used to make the decision. I strongly believe my wife should be in the support group and I also believe we sent in enough evidence to support this.

What to do next? does anyone have any thought?

Kindest regards.

nigel.

[Nystagmite]

You have to appeal. You need to ask for the ESA85a which is the medical report.

 

Did your wife attend a face to face interview / assessment?

[buster1967]

You have to appeal. You need to ask for the ESA85a which is the medical report.

 

Did your wife attend a face to face interview / assessment?

 

Hi. Thank you for your reply. Is that the only thing I should ask for? I did try ringing them yesterday but was on hold from 17:30 until they cut off when they close at 18:00 so will have to wait until Monday now.

 

No. We did not have to attend a face to face medical. I was ready with recorder though as well as requesting it to be recorded.

[Nystagmite]

You may not get through on Monday as they're normally very busy.

[Guest]

ring and write is the way i deal with these things, copy of letter for self and send recorded delivery. even if i get through on phone i still do it. obtain copy of their reasoning, and appeal, gather all evidence and sink them.....oh and don't forget to complain to anyone who will listen, MP etc. its the only way, we must keep this in the public domain and show them up for what they really are.

[**Margaret**]

:buster1967:

 

In addition to the ESA85A report, you'll need a GL24 appeal form. Both are available on request from your benefit delivery centre. Or the GL24 is downloadable from the internet.

 

The forum has a guide to appeals at;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited February 17, 2013 by **Margaret**

[buster1967]

Well I rang the JC+ in Sheffield and requested the GL24, ESA85a, ESA113, ESA65, LT54, a statement of reason and all other documents used to make the decision.

I also asked when my wifes future assessment was likley to be?, He said in two years time. Jan 2015. So what is that all about? I thought it was every six months or so.

 

My wife has an oppointment with her GP on Thursday, He is coming here to see her. He is totally against ATOS and the whole DWP/ESA debarcle. His words were "They should leave people like your wife alone and not add to her problems." I am expecting him to write another letter in support of matching at least two of the support group descriptors. My question is do I send it in with the GL24 or should I wait and send it in at a later date?

 

Regards.

[Nystagmite]

I would send the evidence in with the GL24 if you can.

[estellyn]

I would send the evidence in with the GL24 if you can.

 

Unless it would mean sending the GL24 in late, in which case, send it later and get the GL24 in on time.

[buster1967]

ok thanks. A few more questions if I may. What will be expected of us at the WFI? (I say us as I will be going with her as she could not possibly attend alone).

 

What can they make her do? and what can they not? Would she have to sign up for the work program? What would be expected of her? We are so worried as there is no way she could do any of the work placments. So it looks like we will be going hungry when they sanction us.

[estellyn]

ok thanks. A few more questions if I may. What will be expected of us at the WFI? (I say us as I will be going with her as she could not possibly attend alone).

 

What can they make her do? and what can they not? Would she have to sign up for the work program? What would be expected of her? We are so worried as there is no way she could do any of the work placments. So it looks like we will be going hungry when they sanction us.

 

Take along full details of her conditions, as the advisers at thw WFI are not privy to any of the ATOS report. Though people get very worried, there are insurance and liability implications (not to mention the PR nightmare) that would prevent sending someone unable to care for themselves on a work placement. Whether or not she's even considered for the work programme will depend on her prognosis given by ATOS. If it's not like to improve in 12 months or more then no work programme, if it's less than 12 months then it's a possibility.

[buster1967]

Take along full details of her conditions, as the advisers at thw WFI are not privy to any of the ATOS report. Though people get very worried, there are insurance and liability implications (not to mention the PR nightmare) that would prevent sending someone unable to care for themselves on a work placement. Whether or not she's even considered for the work programme will depend on her prognosis given by ATOS. If it's not like to improve in 12 months or more then no work programme, if it's less than 12 months then it's a possibility.

 

Thank you estellyn. That is very helpful. I have a full detailed letter from her GP that states she is unable to care for herself and has multiple disabilities inc Fecal incontinence while awake.

 

From what I can gather when I rand JC+ on Monday he said no review for two years. So does that mean no work program?

 

Thank you once again.

[buster1967]

Well in the post this morning has come the ESA85a the ESA113 and The LT54. After reading the ESA 85a from [name edited].(Reg nurse) What a load of tosh! lots of mistakes and contradictions.

 

On the ESA 113 Doctor states. (wifes GP)

 

Walking and moving: "Mobility severely impaired by pain"

Transfer between seats : "severley impaired by pain"

Picking up objects: "Severley impaird by pain"

Incontinence: "Suffers Bowel incontinence needs help transfering on and off the toilet"

initiating and completing personal actions: "Pain limits mobility"

 

"Mrs ++++++++ Mobility is severely impaired and she is heavily relinant on Mr. ++++++++ for all her personal care and household chores"

 

 

Then on the ESA 85a it states:

 

 

" The available evidence does not suggest the client has severely restricted musculo-skeletal or cardio function such that they would be unable to mibilise more than 50mtrs or transfer between seats without assistance from another person."

 

"The available evidences suggest the client is also unlikley to experience loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel or voiding of the bladder requiering them to clean themselves and change clothing at least weekly."

 

There are more faults in the report to do with her severe depression no mention of her previous attempts on her own life.

 

It then states:" The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the long term."

 

"The available evidence from the ESA50, Med 3 and 113 has been used to give advice in this case."

 

If a Med 3 is a Doctors sick (fit) note, then my wife has not had one of these for over 12 years. So where is that from.

 

no mention of the two OT's statments or the other GP's Letter.

 

Next I am expecting a re assessment of her high rate care and high rate mobility DLA that she was awarded indef. Back in 2006.

 

What is the chances of this now?

 

I am still awaiting the score sheet too.

Edited February 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've taken out the nurse's name in case it causes problems.

 

This information is something to base your appeal on. If you go through the ESA85 with a fine tooth comb and find all the mistakes and contradictions, you can use that to put in a submission document.

 

HB

[cleaver]

 

Next I am expecting a re assessment of her high rate care and high rate mobility DLA that she was awarded indef. Back in 2006.

 

What is the chances of this now?

 

 

 

 

.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the ESA problem - I'm in the same boat - extensive evidence, OT reports, Social Worker report, 8 consultants reports etc etc - they have told me to get a job after being in the Support Group for the past 3 years!!! Never mind we are only at round 1!

 

As regards your DLA award. I had a letter today telling me that based on the ESA assessment they believe that I am no longer entitled to the HRM & MRC which was awarded 12 months ago!! The DLA payments will now stop - however I do have the right of appeal!!

 

I'm now waiting for Mobility to sieze my car which is under HP with Motability!! It's only a car!!

 

Yes a failure and/or a poor assessment for ESA does normally trigger the automatic removal of the DLA award.

[buster1967]

Sorry to hear about that cleaver. Are you saying that after 3 years in the support group they sent you for an assessment, then you got zero point? That is unbelievable. When was this?

[estellyn]

Thank you estellyn. That is very helpful. I have a full detailed letter from her GP that states she is unable to care for herself and has multiple disabilities inc Fecal incontinence while awake.

 

From what I can gather when I rand JC+ on Monday he said no review for two years. So does that mean no work program?

 

Thank you once again.

 

Yes that should mean no work program.

[estellyn]

Well in the post this morning has come the ESA85a the ESA113 and The LT54. After reading the ESA 85a from [name edited].(Reg nurse) What a load of tosh! lots of mistakes and contradictions.

 

On the ESA 113 Doctor states. (wifes GP)

 

Walking and moving: "Mobility severely impaired by pain"

Transfer between seats : "severley impaired by pain"

Picking up objects: "Severley impaird by pain"

Incontinence: "Suffers Bowel incontinence needs help transfering on and off the toilet"

initiating and completing personal actions: "Pain limits mobility"

 

"Mrs ++++++++ Mobility is severely impaired and she is heavily relinant on Mr. ++++++++ for all her personal care and household chores"

 

 

Then on the ESA 85a it states:

 

 

" The available evidence does not suggest the client has severely restricted musculo-skeletal or cardio function such that they would be unable to mibilise more than 50mtrs or transfer between seats without assistance from another person."

 

"The available evidences suggest the client is also unlikley to experience loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel or voiding of the bladder requiering them to clean themselves and change clothing at least weekly."

 

There are more faults in the report to do with her severe depression no mention of her previous attempts on her own life.

 

It then states:" The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the long term."

 

"The available evidence from the ESA50, Med 3 and 113 has been used to give advice in this case."

 

If a Med 3 is a Doctors sick (fit) note, then my wife has not had one of these for over 12 years. So where is that from.

 

no mention of the two OT's statments or the other GP's Letter.

 

Next I am expecting a re assessment of her high rate care and high rate mobility DLA that she was awarded indef. Back in 2006.

 

What is the chances of this now?

 

I am still awaiting the score sheet too.

 

What evidence did they use? - if you look through it goes through the descriptors decided on and there'll be statements underneath - and these are what have been used as 'evidence' to support the decision.

[buster1967]

What evidence did they use? - if you look through it goes through the descriptors decided on and there'll be statements underneath - and these are what have been used as 'evidence' to support the decision.

 

 

It states:" The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the long term."

 

 

"The available evidence from the ESA50, Med 3 and 113 has been used to give advice in this case."

 

If a Med 3 is a Doctors sick (fit) note, then my wife has not had one of these for over 12 years. So where is that from.

 

no mention of the two OT's statments or the other GP's Letter.

[estellyn]

It states:" The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the long term."

 

 

"The available evidence from the ESA50, Med 3 and 113 has been used to give advice in this case."

 

If a Med 3 is a Doctors sick (fit) note, then my wife has not had one of these for over 12 years. So where is that from.

 

no mention of the two OT's statments or the other GP's Letter.

 

If you look though the report, it will give a a descriptor - for instance 'can mobilise 200 metres', then underneath there will usually be statements that support the decision of that descriptor - for instance it might say things things 'walked 15 metres to interview room', 'shops once a week at the supermarket', 'owns a dog'. These are the things you need to hone in on, as they're from the assessment and completely ignore any supporting evidence, and are usually very easy to demonstrate as not being evidence that the chosen descriptor applies.

[buster1967]

If you look though the report, it will give a a descriptor - for instance 'can mobilise 200 metres', then underneath there will usually be statements that support the decision of that descriptor - for instance it might say things things 'walked 15 metres to interview room', 'shops once a week at the supermarket', 'owns a dog'. These are the things you need to hone in on, as they're from the assessment and completely ignore any supporting evidence, and are usually very easy to demonstrate as not being evidence that the chosen descriptor applies.

 

Hi estellyn.

 

It has been done purley on paper. No face to face at all. This is what is annoying me. We sent in lots of current paper evidence, But most of it seems to have been ignored.

 

regards.

[estellyn]

Hi estellyn.

 

It has been done purley on paper. No face to face at all. This is what is annoying me. We sent in lots of current paper evidence, But most of it seems to have been ignored.

 

regards.

 

In which case, they have provided nothing to support their viewpoint above the ESA50 or the doctor's report. Sounds like an easy appeal if you can get her doctor to confirm a distance for mobilising (and say why she can't wheel herself in a wheelchair, and confirm the frequency and severity of incontinence, and the necessity for help when transferring.

[buster1967]

In which case, they have provided nothing to support their viewpoint above the ESA50 or the doctor's report. Sounds like an easy appeal if you can get her doctor to confirm a distance for mobilising (and say why she can't wheel herself in a wheelchair, and confirm the frequency and severity of incontinence, and the necessity for help when transferring.

 

 

Thank you estellyn, we also had a visit from my wife GP this afternoon. I showed him the esa 85a and the DM's interpretation of it. He said he was sick and tired with the whole DWP/ATOS process. "what's the point in the DWP sending me and other GP's forms to fill in, if they don't take any notice of them". He said don't worry I will help you both. Put his arm around my wife and said I will have a detailed letter ready for you to send in with the GL24 early next week.

 

But I don't hold out much hope with any DM overturning the original decision. One of Thatchers phrases keeps coming back to haunt me. "This ladies NOT for turning."

 

We will see.

[honeybee13]

Thank you estellyn, we also had a visit from my wife GP this afternoon. I showed him the esa 85a and the DM's interpretation of it. He said he was sick and tired with the whole DWP/ATOS process. "what's the point in the DWP sending me and other GP's forms to fill in, if they don't take any notice of them". He said don't worry I will help you both. Put his arm around my wife and said I will have a detailed letter ready for you to send in with the GL24 early next week.

 

But I don't hold out much hope with any DM overturning the original decision. One of Thatchers phrases keeps coming back to haunt me. "This ladies NOT for turning."

 

We will see.

 

Hello there.

 

The DM didn't overturn my decision either, but the tribunal did. Estellyn gives good advice, she'll help you.

 

HB

[cleaver]

Sorry to hear about that cleaver. Are you saying that after 3 years in the support group they sent you for an assessment, then you got zero point? That is unbelievable. When was this?

 

Yep, 3 years in the SG and then came the review assessment and last month I was told to get a job as I am as fit as a butchers dog!

 

What has upset me is that my DLA has now been taken off me even though I was awarded HRM & MRC only 12 months or so ago!!

 

Also in the post this morning another letter turned up from somebody called the 'Pension and Disability & Carers Service' in Glasgow, a Jo ***** wants to come and interview me on the 26th February in the morning about my benefits. That was the last straw, I don't need somebody coming to rub salt in he wounds so telephoned them and gave them a piece of my mind and told them to p*** **f!!

 

Don't the shower ever give up?

 

Sorry I'm a little tetchy tonight as all of it is just sinking in.