Accused of receiving OverPayment of Salary for 3 years.

[steampowered]

A lien is, essentially, a form of security where you are permitted to hold onto the debtor's property until they pay the debt. You can't just file a claim in court to get a lien because you want one. You need some sort of legal basis for having the lien. Liens normally arise because it is written into the contract between the parties or a lien is granted under statute. There are also a few situations where it arises under the general law, for example solicitors generally have a lien over their client's papers until the client pays their bills.

 

 

I'm afraid I cannot see any basis for you having a lien based on what you have told us so far. What is it you are thinking of doing? If you are thinking that you might hold onto the employer's papers until you are paid, this would be a very dangerous strategy, the proper route is to file an ET1 for unpaid wages/unlawful deductions.

Edited February 20, 2013 by steampowered

[Sugar Plum]

HI guys

 

quick update just to let you know that I received a letter from ET and they have accepted I have a case which is set for May 2013.

 

I am currently off work with work related stress for the past 3 weeks I return next week, I was sat at my desk and just broke down crying uncontrollably, I didnt know what was going on, this is definately not like me, but I think the pressure of it all just took its toll.

 

While being off work I received a letter from work regarding Misconduct Investigations for replying to their solicitor letter that they had sent me. For using the franking machine £1.66. They said this was personal use. In my thinking the solicitor isnt my friend and wasnt writing to say hi, its about my unlawful deductions/grievance . Also because I referred to the solicitors letter in my letter to my boss. A meeting will take place when I return. It also had a bit about me accepting the unlawful deductions settled.

 

I emailed my boss telling him I do not accept and he is incorrect and that I am very troubled to be receiving letters while I have been medically signed off for work related stress and these letters and emails are elevating my stress levels.

 

I will wait to see what happens when I go back to work next week and let you know whats happening.

[jackieandwayne]

Hey, listen, I know its excruciatingly difficult, financially, to be off sick for any length of time. But, you need to think if going back into that environment, which is now making you ill, is the right thing to do.

 

I have PTSD, stuck with it now, all because I stayed working in a place I shouldn't have been. I'm not saying resign, thats a daft thing to do of course, but keep signed off sick and stay out of the arena. At the end of the day, if we don't have our health we don,t have a lot really. Then you might start thinking about who has made you ill like this, and go and see a good solicitor. Let them deal with the communications, paperwork etc.

 

Whatever you decide to do, good luck, stay strong, never give in. X

[Emmzzi]

I'd reckon your thinking is a little cloudy because you are suffering from stress.

 

I'd send your boss a letter with a cheque for £1.66 when you feel a little better - and explain now you are rested and feel better you see his point.

 

the letter *is* personal use.

 

sleep lots, feel better

 

xx

[Sugar Plum]

Hello All

Update:

I mentioned previously I received a letter from my boss Disciplinary/MisconductInvestigations Meeting which I received while I was signed off work for workrelated stress.

 

Since I receivedthe email which had the attachment letter in it. Somehow the attachment nolonger exists but I had already copied and scanned it to my computer.

 

For someunknown reason I decided to read the letter again the Thursday before Ireturned to work the following week and noticed that I was suspended from workand was to attend the Disciplinary/Misconduct Meeting on whatever date.

 

I immediately emailed my boss the next day informing him that as this was thelast day for my sick note please confirms whether or not I am return to work and confirm a new date for the disciplinary meeting.

 

I did this because the attachment was no longer on the email so I didn’t know if they had decided to not suspend me or to carry on with the suspension as this all happened while I was off sick.

 

He said that he is glad I am feeling better and to come into work the following weekand gave me a date for the meeting. He never once mentioned the suspension. (I know at this point he had received the Employment Tribunal letter)

 

When I returned to work I was expecting the emails between him and his solicitor to beremoved but no they were not and there were more correspondence. I emailed him with a letter attached

 

In previous correspondence from your solicitor and your confirmation since returning towork it has been made clear that the emails are of an Extreme Importance regarding me to Xxxxxxxxxxx.

 

Please can you immediately arrange for the mailboxes in and out to be removed off my system as this is leaving me open for unjustified allegations to be made against me which I requested yesterday? Maybe the source used for the investigations about mecan be used to do this as they will be IT trained.

 

To clarify Iwill not deal with any emails following your instructions. Anybody can go on to my computer and accidently click on the message or the message above a Privateand Confidential email which would then automatically open the Private andConfidential email which making it appear as I have done it. This could be done innocently not realising the repercussions on me.

 

I was under theimpression that this would have been a top priority for Xxxxxxxxxxx to put into action especially since the level actions and allegations which are being taken towards me.

 

This is very distressing to me as all my actions are currently under a microscope at the moment from Xxxxxxxxxxx.

 

Yours sincerely

 

He replied: (myown words) I must leave all emails except that state project

 

I replied: That is what I am doing fearfully, but I pointed out what happens automatically with emails in my letter. If you have an alternative solution besides what I suggested please put it into action ASAP. As following your instructions below isineffective and will put me at risk of looking like I have opened them deliberately.

 

He replied: (my own words) leave all emails and deal with outgoing only don’t touch Private and Confidential ones

 

I replied: That will not work neither as the samehappens to outgoing mail as I explained and you are aware of this.

 

All week I have been requesting for the Mailboxesto be removed I went into work yesterday and nothing has been done, so I sent another letter because I am so worried,

 

My boss could not do the Disciplinary meeting and not given me an alternative date because he had a headache and was apparently leaving early, but he didn’t leave early when I drove past my work place nearly an hour later he was still in the office his car was in the car park.

 

Today I wrote aletter because he is now on leave for 2 weeks today was his last day before his break and still no date of the meeting.

 

Please can you confirm the date of the Disciplinary/Misconduct Investigation Meeting which Ipresume will address Suspension from work and Formal Warning made to me in yourletter sent to me as an attachment on the xxxxx 2013.

 

I am finding it very distressing as it is hanging over my head and the fact that the Mailboxeshave not been removed from my computer which I requested upon my return to work. For clarity can you reply as to whether you are pursing the above actionsor not pursing them?

 

He said Yes and gave me a date but no time.

 

It does not appear to matter that other people in the office have read the private and confidential emails, I checked and they have been read by other staff members while I was on sick leave.

 

I feel like I am being victimised because it’s only me that this is happening to. Nobody else has been told to leave the Private and Confidential emails or investigated for this. I checked this too. It all stems because I won’t lay down and shut up regarding the Unlawful Deductions of wages and told him I seen his solicitors emails which he knew. How can I be up for a Disciplinary but no one else is, maybe I am wrong.

In relation to using the franking machine to reply to his solicitor. I was owed money for travel expenses there was not enough in petty cash so I filled out a slip saying £1.66 to be deducted from what was owed to me for using the franking machine.

 

Any advice and points of view would be appreciated whether you agree or not maybe Im not thinking clearly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2013 by Sugar Plum

[altobelli]

I think the employer bringing up the £1.66 is disgusting. It is clearly part of the dispute they have with you and is just going to put more stress on you at a time when you're already suffering from stress. The amount involved is trifling, and it is far from clear cut that it is for personal use. They would have been much better to have just let it go.

[Sugar Plum]

:-)Hello Friends

 

After returning to work and after continuously for over a week requesting they implement changes to my computer and explaining step by step how the email system works because every suggestion they made I pointed out would not work and was inadequate blah blah dont want to bore use again.

 

Now the emails are no longer a part of the disciplinary it appears its just the £1.66 for the franking machine. I submitted my expenses when I went back to work showing that the franking machine cost was deducted out of money that was owed to me. So I guess when I go to the meeting I will find out why they think this required a investigation as everybody uses they franking machine to post they sometimes pay me for it and I put it in the tin, including my boss.

 

Tribunal Procedure

 

I received a acknowledgement of response Employment Tribunal from my employers solicitor. I have been reading up non stop on Tribunals just to try and get some knowlege of how it works. I am going in to the ET watch cases to familiarise myself as I am terrified because I have read some previous posts on here and they scared the $%^* out of me because some of the cases were apparently very straight forward but they came across some awful judges.

 

I read that I dont have to accept what the solicitor has put in the bundle. They state that: It is submitted that should the Tribunal find the Claimant suffered an unlawful deduction of wages any such claim would fall outside the Tribunals jurisdiction and should therefore be dismissed in its enirety

 

They have included stuff in there which I dont feel is needed as it is repetative, also they have put down what my part time admin asst salary and comparing it to mine. She works 4 mornings 16 hours a week and I do 5 afternoons 22.5hrs a week and does not do the duties I do. Do I have to accept this.

 

They say in the summer the office was on a 4 day week basically to save a bit of money. I was never given that option to work 4 days a week and was never told about it I found out towards the end of the summer when I had to get one of guys timesheet for the secretary in head office I thought they were on annual leave that day because there was never a day when they were off on the same day.

 

They got paid for the days they worked what has this got to do with my case why is it relevant is my question. (once again I might not be thinking clearly I apologise in advanace if thats the case).

 

Do I have to include my employment contract (this may seem like a stupid question as they solicitor is depending on this) its just that the payrise letters dont have anything to do with my contract as it was always adhered to and we never had a problem with what was in the contract. But it does say were suppose to get yearly payrises and bonuses 3 times a year I havent. I dont know if the rest of the staff have.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated sorry its all so long again

[steampowered]

What has actually happened here- I assume you filed an ET1 for unlawful dediction of wages?

 

I do not really follow why they are saying the claim falls outside the Tribunal's jurisdiction. I also don't follow why any of the other stuff is relevant. Without wishing to be rude my impression is that we are only getting part of the story, I feel like you are telling us your response to what to the other side is saying and not telling us what they actually said, so I am reluctant to start giving you advice on this issue. It would be helpful to type out the relevant parts of the ET1 and ET3 or post a scanned copy (with personal details removed).

 

When you are asking about your employment contract and payrise letters, are you asking about the bundle? What is happening here, are you being asked to agree the bundle index with the other side's solicitors?

[Sugar Plum]

:oops:sorry steampowered. I see now how it comes across as confusing. I will upload once I have blacked out personal details.

 

That was the response from my Employers solicitors I pressume its a ET3 that they respond to Im not sure. I filled out the ET1 form and it said

NOTICE OF CLAIM NOTICE OF HEARING DATE......

 

The Claim

 

The Employment Tribunal has accepted a claim against the above respondent. It has been give the above Case Number, which should be quoted in any communications relating to this case.

A copy of the claim is enclosed for the respondent

 

The Response

 

To submit a response, a prescribed form must be used. Alternatively you may respon on line at www.justice.gov.uk/trinals/employment/claims/responding

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Then I received a letter from the Employment Trinals saying ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF RESPONSE Employment Tribunals Rules of Procedure 2004.

 

The response has been accepted and the case has been referred to an Employment Judge. Any request or applications made in the respnse will be considered and you will be notified of a decision in due course, If applicable.

 

If you have not already been informed of the hearing date I will be writing to you shortly If the claim proceeds to hearing a copy of the booklet @The Hearing' which explains what happens at Tribunal hearings' can be found on our website at www.justice.giv.uk/tribunals/emplyment/claims/booklets

 

My impression is my employers solicitor is trying to say that it was not a unlawful deduction but an overpaymet error.

 

Yes the solicitor sent me a draft of what they want to put in the bundle and I personally dont think most of it needs to be included.

 

Hope this is a bit clearer.

[Sugar Plum]

They have included a 5.2 GROUNDS OF RESISTANCE which I will have to upload

[unfairdismissal2]

Overpayment is yours..they can't touch it now...

[honeybee13]

Link and a quote from another website removed for consideration by the site team.

[Emmzzi]

Overpayment is yours..they can't touch it now...

 

And the law that backs that opinion up is what, exactly?

[unfairdismissal2]

I read below somewhere but admin removed the link..google it.

 

 

Where an employer has made an accidental overpayment of wages, the statutory position is that the employer can recover this by deducting the overpayment from future wages or salary. This is covered by s.14 of the Employment Rights Act 1996, which provides that protection from deductions from wages does not apply to an overpayment of wages or employment-related expenses. If an employer makes an overpayment in one pay month, it should be relatively straightforward for it to deduct this in the month following.

The position can become more complex if the employer has made overpayments over a long period of time, perhaps due to a payroll error, or where the overpayment was made some months ago and has only recently come to light. The employee may have a defence to a claim for repayment on the basis that he or she was led to believe that there was an entitlement to the money and that, in good faith, he or she has "changed [his or her] position" in reliance on the money. This usually means that the employee has spent it. Provided that the overpayment is not the fault of the employee, he or she may be able to defend a claim for repayment on these common law grounds. An employer will be in a stronger position if a prompt discovery is made and the overpayment is quickly brought to the employee's attention.

In practical terms, where an overpayment is discovered after some time, it may be advisable for the employer to discuss this with the employee and try to agree a programme of repayment over a period of time. In some cases it might be practical for the employer to consider writing off part of the overpayment rather than become involved in legal proceedings to recover the full amount. However, each case should be considered on its individual facts.

[Emmzzi]

"May have a defence" bit different to your reply.

[Sugar Plum]

Hi Guys

 

I need to advise. Im so upset. I have been studying like a lunatic for months for my tribunal case, not been sleeping. Stressed to the max. So today was my tribunal case. I woke up this morning about 5.15am went through all 6 of my bundles once again to make sure everything was correct and in order.

 

Rang the tribunal office to check how many judges would be hearing my case and was told only one. I went to the tribunal, sat outside for 45 minutes to save on the parking until my case was nearly due.

 

When I got inside and told them who I am. I was told my case was heard this morning at 10am and dismissed. I wanted to cry. I had prepared for everything possible I thought. I cant believe I got the time wrong. I thought it was 2.15pm.

 

Ive been going to the tribunal for over a month to observe, I was there yesterday all day observing the cases and now when its my case I missed it. I emailed them begging them to reconsider a re-listing but I dont know what the chances are because I never researched this. You just couldnt make it up if you wanted to its that ridiculous and crazy. Im sooooooo mad at myself.

 

Does anyone know the correct procedure. My head is absolutely battered right now.

 

Thanks guys

[becky2585]

Hi

 

The first step is to check the written notice of hearing - what time did it say on there?

[Sugar Plum]

Hi guys:whoo:

 

If anyone interested a quick update. I heard back today from the Employment Tribunal where I requested a reveiw for missing the hearing and it was granted. (Oh thank you god) I am over the moon with joy.

 

I have a question, does anyone know how I can introduce new evidence. I raised a new grievance with my employer over a month ago and would like to include it in my current Hearing at the Tribubnal. Im not sure if this is possible.

 

I realised to late to request this when I was requesting the review of the hearing. Any advice will be much appreciated:-D