Council Tax Benefit How many are aware of this?

[estellyn]

fairly sure wasnt the case and estellyn only posted IB figures not IS figures so nothing proven there.

 

What about now with income based ESA over £100 a week, and if you also on DLA income at £150+ a week whilst still getting full council tax and housing benefit.

 

Thats a problem for sure, for one person £105 a week is excessive for another £150 a week isnt.

 

here

 

"A disability premium (currently paid at £30.35 for a single person and £43.25 for a couple) can be added if:"

"•You've been incapable of work (under Incapacity Benefit rules) for more than one year, and continue to be incapable of work, and you claimed Income Support before October 27 2008. "

 

So basically even on the IS version it got bumped up after a year same as IB. The difference been tho that IS gives you full council tax and housing help, automatic free prescriptions without needing to ask for a HC2 and without age additions IS beats IB.

 

Not sure what point you're trying to make anymore. My point was incap was always more than IS - for some just a few pence more, and for others could be £15+ more. But on Incap you didn't get the perks that are available on IS like access to budgeting loans, community care grants, passported access to other benefits.

 

Income support with a disability premium is £101.35 a week. Incap long term with lower age addition - £105.05, Incap long term with higher age addition - £110.85. Bear in mind that in 2009, the higher age addition for incap was in excess of £15. People on Incap would have to complete the HC2 form, and also had to pay towards their rent and council tax.

[worried33]

Not sure what point you're trying to make anymore. My point was incap was always more than IS - for some just a few pence more, and for others could be £15+ more. But on Incap you didn't get the perks that are available on IS like access to budgeting loans, community care grants, passported access to other benefits.

 

Income support with a disability premium is £101.35 a week. Incap long term with lower age addition - £105.05, Incap long term with higher age addition - £110.85. Bear in mind that in 2009, the higher age addition for incap was in excess of £15. People on Incap would have to complete the HC2 form, and also had to pay towards their rent and council tax.

 

its not more. Incapacity benefit with no age addition is less than £101 a week.

 

some more figures for you.

 

I pay £8 a week to rent which I wouldnt pay if on income support. Thats already wiped out the £4 you quoted.

I pay £4 a week to council tax that I wouldnt pay if on income support.

Also various utility companies have tariffs that require a income based benefit to qualify for.

 

I think with max age addition, might be lucky to come out even with income support. After reductions to council and housing benefit.

[estellyn]

its not more. Incapacity benefit with no age addition is less than £101 a week.

 

some more figures for you.

 

I pay £8 a week to rent which I wouldnt pay if on income support. Thats already wiped out the £4 you quoted.

I pay £4 a week to council tax that I wouldnt pay if on income support.

Also various utility companies have tariffs that require a income based benefit to qualify for.

 

I think with max age addition, might be lucky to come out even with income support. After reductions to council and housing benefit.

 

With no age addition you would get income support top up of incap so the extra payments would not apply.

[worried33]

With no age addition you would get income support top up of incap so the extra payments would not apply.

 

why would you when the law says you need £71 a week to live on?

 

the excessive income is not just the age additions, its whatever is over £71.

[Nystagmite]

You dont find it odd you have 3k savings, a higher income and dont pay council tax yet I do?

I don't have a higher income. I live with my parents. So unlike you, I get no help with rent. I have extra costs due to disability, for which I have to use some ESA for.

 

What you dont understand is ESA/IB is higher than JSA as that also covers extra costs associated with illness, but it doesnt get the same treatment in terms of been counted as income.

I have lost £121 a month by switching from JSA to ESA.

[estellyn]

why would you when the law says you need £71 a week to live on?

 

the excessive income is not just the age additions, its whatever is over £71.

 

Anyone on incap would have been on it for over a year, which means they're entited to the basic £71 plus disability premium of £30.35, so someone on long term incap of £99.15, would be entitled to income support top up of £2.20 a week.

[drop47]

This is getting silly. When you apply for benefit they look to see if you are entitled to contribution based, if so you get that. If not you get income based. Now income based is a passport benefit which means you qualify not free prescriptions and hb and ctb. If you get the contribution based you have to apply for these means tested benefits but of your benefit is the same level you will get the same award. So when i was on cont esa i still got hb and ctb. Now with hb there is also the local housing allowance. If your rent is above that you will have to make up the shortfall. If non of this makes sense i suggest cab or your local welfare rights team

[vicky87]

Just been looking on my local councils site for the proposals for this and it appears they have found a way to manage despite the government cutting their budget and trying to make them get poor people to pay more.

 

http://www.durham.gov.uk/Pages/Service.aspx?ServiceId=8964

If the council chooses to apply the reduction, then the rest of the claimants who are of working age would need to pay more to make up the reduction in the council’s income. This would mean they would need to start paying around 20 per cent of their Council Tax. Given that the majority of working age people receiving Council Tax Benefit are not in employment or are in low paid work, they will have to meet this from extremely limited budgets.

 

On the other hand, if the council choose to remove the discretionary Council Tax discounts currently available to owners of certain categories of empty properties, the council would have an additional source of income which could offset the loss in grant.

Durham County Council is aware of the very difficult economic situation faced by many of our households across the county. If we passed on the reduction in Council Tax support to these working age householders, it could significantly add to the problems they face.

 

I sincerely hope other councils follow this example instead of going for the easy option of adding the extra cost to the most vulnerable.

[osdset]

JSA and ESA claimants in my borough will be expected to top up £3.75 per week for band B

[estellyn]

Just been looking on my local councils site for the proposals for this and it appears they have found a way to manage despite the government cutting their budget and trying to make them get poor people to pay more.

 

http://www.durham.gov.uk/Pages/Service.aspx?ServiceId=8964

 

 

 

I sincerely hope other councils follow this example instead of going for the easy option of adding the extra cost to the most vulnerable.

 

That's certainly encouraging from durham.

[RaeUK]

I can't remember if I've commented about our council. They have sent out letters, updated their website, and invited comments about the proposed scheme ahead of making a decision in January 2013. Details can be found here.

With thanks to this thread for reminding me, I've completed the questionnaire.

[vicky87]

That's certainly encouraging from durham.

I'm wondering if they might do something similar with the bedroom tax thing...if its in their power to do so of course. As other councils seem to have sent out info about this while ours hasnt yet. Here's hoping anyway.

[id6052]

I'm wondering if they might do something similar with the bedroom tax thing...if its in their power to do so of course. As other councils seem to have sent out info about this while ours hasnt yet. Here's hoping anyway.

 

that is unlikely

 

LAs are being given the powers to design their own local CT support schemes - however HB remains a national scheme, so they cannot work around the bedroom tax, although people affected could apply for a discretionary housing payment

[osdset]

I think when the full ramifications of welfare reform hit, especially under the Universal Cosh, those on the basic minimum benefits, and NMW will realise that the stark choice will be pay your bills and look forward to a future diet of beans on toast, or eat and keep warm for as long as you can before the debt catches up with you, either way you're fecked.

[jadeybags]

A future of doorstep loans, not being able to pay them back etc etc etc & so on. The economy is definitely going to improve. Not.

[drop47]

Has this actually gone through parliament yet as my council website says not.

[Simon7685]

As far as I know it has gone through parlaiment, the LA's are now responsible for administering their own CTB system. I agree that it seems to have slipped underneath the radar and gone through without a lot of media attention. Unfortunately though it is going to happen and a lot of people are going to find themselves in a much worse financial position as a result.

 

The sad fact of the matter overall is that the country has got no money left in the pot. It doesn't matter what political opinions you have, Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, it doesn't change the fact that there is no money left. Despite the savage cuts going on the reforms to welfare and everything else, as a country we are still borrowing more than we have coming in. The even sadder fact is our grandchildren are going to be paying for our problems as a result.

 

I am not saying that makes it correct what is going on and it certainly doesn't make it right but sometimes I think we all are a little guilty of not looking at the bigger picture because we become more concerned with our own circumstances and that is human nature after all. I am not saying that people on £71 a week should be expected to contribute or those on DLA (including me) should receive any more or less than the person on £71. There are better ways of takling this and all issues relating to cuts and budget defeceits and we are all good at thinking we can do it better than the next man. I just think that sometimes as well we need to think about the bigger picture, it could be and probably will be getting a lot worse than it is now but arguing amongst ourselves won't change that.

 

At least we aren't as badly off as those in Greece yet!

[drop47]

Yet being the operative word.

[redbat]

I have googled this and the bill in question is still in the house of lords. The next stage is the lords committee

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2012-13/localgovernmentfinance.html

 

So it would seem that is not yet a done deal so is anyone doing anything about it?

[worried33]

I don't have a higher income. I live with my parents. So unlike you, I get no help with rent. I have extra costs due to disability, for which I have to use some ESA for.

 

I have lost £121 a month by switching from JSA to ESA.

 

you live with your parents, so you have family support.

 

You keep saying you have extra costs due to disability, are you saying I dont? if not why do you keep saying it.

 

Do you realise if you have to pay council tax its only a % of your extra income not all of it, so you would still have extra income, sorry what I see is you saying you agree with discrimination.

 

I have just sent en email back to my council explaining that because someone is on DLA it doesnt mean they any more vulnerable than someone on IB/ESA which is the truth, indeed people on DLA sometimes even work full time.

 

My area has 60% of council tax benefit claimants as pensioners, thats why its apparently 19%, the council however look like they choosing to condense this further by also protecting DLA and child benefit claimants which is very wrong. Everyone should be treated equally. So not only do we have a postcode lottery on this but also tons of discrimination, How someone classed as unable to work and living alone isnt classed as vulnerable is beyond me.

[worried33]

This is getting silly. When you apply for benefit they look to see if you are entitled to contribution based, if so you get that. If not you get income based. Now income based is a passport benefit which means you qualify not free prescriptions and hb and ctb. If you get the contribution based you have to apply for these means tested benefits but of your benefit is the same level you will get the same award. So when i was on cont esa i still got hb and ctb. Now with hb there is also the local housing allowance. If your rent is above that you will have to make up the shortfall. If non of this makes sense i suggest cab or your local welfare rights team

 

I do get hb and cb, however its deducted £8 a week for my income on hb and another £4 on cb.

 

You both are wrong, even welfare rights have told me I am right, I rang them to confirm.

 

Summary.

 

If you get 'any' passport benefit the "amount you need to live on" is disregarded, even when actual income is higher.

Income support for incapacity (which is what get when not enough contrinbutions for IB) is more than long term incapacity benefit rate but because its a passport benefit you also get full housing help and council tax help.

 

If you get IB long term rate with OR without age additions its classed as excessive income unless you get income support for some other reason as well, the amount you need to live on calculation is £71 unless get DLA in which case its a higher number.

 

So if you on income based incapacity benefit £105 is classed as reasonable income.

If on long term IB it is NOT classed as reasonable income.

 

Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

 

Are you guys now claiming I have a wrong award from the council and welfare rights are also wrong?

 

The extra £30 or so on the amount you need to live on calculation only applies when claiming income support for incapacity, it does NOT apply to incapacity benefit claimants.

 

If you think my council is wrong I am really interested to know and see the documentation so I can claim back what they owe me since for 8 years I have been treated as my allowed income at JSA level.

 

To further proof my deductions are for income.

 

When my IB stopped earlier this year my HB award went up by £32 a mont, and my CB bill went to 0.

I have also not been on IB for 8 years I had a period of time on JSA when I was kicked of it after failing a medical, during that time my hb and cb also went up but then down again when IB came back on.

Edited October 3, 2012 by worried33

[worried33]

Anyone on incap would have been on it for over a year, which means they're entited to the basic £71 plus disability premium of £30.35, so someone on long term incap of £99.15, would be entitled to income support top up of £2.20 a week.

 

as I said the disability premium is NOT applied to long term IB, you have got this one wrong.

 

The DWP have now also confirmed to me on the phone. Any websites showing these figures also back up what I am saying.

[id6052]

the disability premium is not applied in the calculation of long term incapacity benefit

 

it is applied in the calculation of the 'applicable amount' for IS/HB/CTB where a person is in receipt of long term incapacity benefit

[worried33]

if you have a web page showing this I would be grateful and then also have to apologise

 

than i can get onto my council and ask for all the underpayyments back. They have my applicable amount as £71.

[redbat]

Worried

Have a look at the benefits advisor website

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DoItOnlineByCategory/DG_172666

 

You can add in all your details, what benefits you get what you rent is, what the |LHA is etc and it will tell you what you should get.