blue snail V natwest

[blue snail]

Hello i am new here,

I have read many posts in the forum and its reassuring to find people in allmost the same situation as me with natwest advantage gold accounts. I have all my old statements going back 6 years and the total is going to be around £ 4,500. I still cant find any example letters or template letters here can anyone help ? ?

[Andy449]

Hi there and welcome to the forum

 

All of the templates you're looking for can be found here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

 

Have you read the FAQ's? If not then I would seriously recommend that you do so before sending any letters in order to avoid problems further down the line...

 

Andy

[blue snail]

Hello ! my name is blue snail and i am just starting a claim against natwest on a advantage gold account because they have taken £ 3737.00 from me in the last 6 years and i want my hard-earned money back !

 

Right the bit i dont understand is in the template prelim letter is sais "What i require ; I calculate that you have taken £XXXXX plus £XXX which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken"

 

O.K. now i have been reading the forums every night this week and from what i can gather you dont add on interest at the prelim stage only much later in the process so why is it in the prelim letter ? ?

 

I understand the concept of adding APR by dividing 8% by 12 to give a monthly figure, then multiplying by the number of months since the charge occured etc etc.

 

I just want someone who has allready been through this to say what they wrote in this part of the prelim letter to natwest, i am cool with everything else and want to get it sent off tonight . . any help please ? ?

[Michael Browne]

There are 2 instances of interest you can claim:

 

1.When you go overdrawn the bank will charge you interest, perfectly lawfully.

 

However, if part of your overdraft is made up of penalty fees, they are also charging you interest on these too and it is this interest which you are entitled to claim back, but it's tricky to separate out from the total interest figure.

 

Vampiress has a spreadsheet, (the advanced one), in the bank templates library, which attempts to calculate this

 

It's quite complex and unless your claim is large may not amount to that much, so for simplicity's sake, some people don't bother

 

This is the interest referred to in the preliminary and LBA letters.

 

2. Section 69 8% interest on your claim, but only when you submit a claim at court. Don't add this interest before moneyclaim

[blue snail]

thanks Michael. Therfore would you say its worth claiming the interest on £ 3,737.00 ? The charges were spread randomly over the last 6 years so i could take each charge in turn and work out the interest to the present day but it would take a long time.

I just wanted to find someone who has already successfully been through the process and what they put at that stage of the letter - i guess most people just left out the interest bit which is what i may do in the knowlegde that i may be able to add on this 8% apr thing at the court stage, am i making sense ??

[Michael Browne]

Claiming overdraft interest on £3737 esp dating from 6 years ago could add several hundred pounds to your claim.

 

Claiming contractual interest would add significantly more. This long thread explains more:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html?highlight=contractual

 

Vampiress and Mindzai both have s/s which work this out.

[blue snail]

Blue Snail here still struggling with interest element ;

 

Just to re-cap - I am just about to write my prelim letter to natwest

 

- I am going to claim £ 3737. in total going back 6 years, my overdraft limit is £2000. on an advantage gold account and during the 6 years i have allways been overdrawn and sometimes over the £2000 limit - but not for very long

 

- Here is what i am trying to work out, i wish to calculate and then add an interest element to list in the prelim letter as per the template and i want it to be realistic but not so ridiculous to give me a good chance i dont want to be too greedy i.e. on a £3,700ish claim + interest of 400 or so.

 

- this is how i have tried to work it out manually ( I didnt care much for the spreadsheets and they wont work on my mac anyway) ;

 

For example in 2001 in 1 month I had charges of £ 224.00 . . ok

- The monthly agreed % on agreed overdraft is 1.3%

- This would equate to £ 2.91 at the end of that month ( 224 x 1.3%)

- The charge occured 58 months ago so £ 2.91 x 58 = £ 168.78

 

So what im saying is using this method it will be hundreds of pounds - too much ? ?

 

Has anyone tried doing the same thing or am i totally barking up the wrong tree ? Im thinking of not including any interest at this stage cos its too much hassle but i dont like giving up !

 

Any help greatfully received as ive been thinking about this for days !

[blue snail]

Question and update :

Ive got to the stage where I am ready to take natwest to court by moneyclaim online but ive been reading the threads to see what the likely outcome/response will be from corbetts.

 

It seems like they are requesting more details - when i sent my first letter i didnt itemise every single charge as there are many many over the last 6 years i just gave monthly totals. Ive since been back over every statement and noted the details of every charge and the problem is

 

a) Ive made two mistakes in my adding up totaling about £20. (not much in a 4K claim)

b) When i added the interest monthly i rounded it down to the nearest whole pound

 

This means my response to them if they request more details will be slightly different to the first letters to natwest is this going to be a problem ? should i put the revised totals on the court form N1 (or its online equivelent)

[The cobbett slayer]

If the errors are in their favour I wouldn't worry too much but be sure that you aren't claiming the Advantage Gold Fee. That is a legitimate service charge that you can't recover.

 

I suggest that you submit your itemisation on an excel spreadsheet stating the date the charge was made, the amount and the reason given for the charge.

 

Make sure you keep copies because they will almost certainly ask you for them again at a later date.

[blue snail]

Thanks paul

 

The errors are in MY favour to the tune of £26. so I am a bit concerned. I sent the original list neatly typed up in a sort of table because I have an old applemac and exell doesnt work very well. The thing is do I send a revised (and more detailed breakdown) schedule now to cobbets or cobblers (whatever the name is) because I will be doing it online and shall I put the revised amounts on the N1 or whatever its online equivelent is ?

 

Your help is greatly appreciated, I want to do it tomorow as the deadline is up. please excuse my spelling by the way

[blue snail]

Brief update and a question from me ;

 

O.K. I am an advantage gold customer claiming charges back over the last 6 years a total of 118 different charges totalling £ 3763. i have then added interest myself (not using spreadsheet) at a rate of 1.22% per month (standard credit zone rate) this totals £ 833.

 

So I have just filled in a claim at MCOL which should have been begun to be processed this morning. I made a mistake - when i sent off my prelim letter/ LBA etc. I totalled the charges up to the end of each month and submitted those details on my schedule. I then read up about what would be the likely response from their solicitors Corbetts - requesting more info or a brakdown of charges etc. So I went back through the statements and wrote down every single charge, the amount, what it was for etc. This is when I found two mistakes I had made previously to the tune of about 25 quid - Silly me

 

Anyway I have now typed up a fully comprehensive list of all charges it looks very neat and fills 3 sheets of A4, the new revised totals I put on my MCOL claim.

 

Question : Should I now send the new very comprehensive and more accurate schedule straight to CORBETTS with a covering letter in anticipation that they are likely to ask for it later anyway ? ?

[The cobbett slayer]

As long as the amounts on your MCOL are accurate the previous error shouldn't present any sort of problem. Bear in mind that Natwest ALREADY KNOW how much they have charged you.

 

With regards to contacting Cobbetts in advance - definitely don't do that. There are several cases now where Natwest have kept things in house so I would advise that you do nothing further until you get a response to your MCOL. It will probably be the standard defence and CPR Part 18 request so wait for it and see what they say.

 

Paul

[blue snail]

Thanks again Paul that has set my mind at rest. I read on here somewhere that someone was sending their revised schedule to the Northampton county court but I dont know, I think I will sit tight in the knowledge that I have the info here at my fingertips should they request it.

 

I dont hold much hope in getting my money this side of xmas but never mind I knew it would not be a 5 minute job from the outset. If i get board of waiting I can start my claim on HSBC ! !

[The cobbett slayer]

If i get board of waiting I can start my claim on HSBC ! !

 

 

Are you male or female blue snail?

[blue snail]

Blue snail here. I couldnt find my own thread so i started a new one, sorry !

 

Ok here we go . . . Today as expected on the last day of the deadline I received Cobbetts defence, I am struggling with the legal language. Its quite short and appears to refer only to the particulars of claim. There is no mention of PART 18, or allocation questionaire or which track the claim would take. I have retyped it here verbatim ;

 

1) .This defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the defendant to apply for summary judgement in respect of and/or to strike out the p.o.c.

 

2) without prejudice to the non-admission set out in the foregoing paragraph, if and to the extent that the claimant proves the allegation that the defendant debited charges to his bank a/c , insofar as such charges were dibited on a date or dates more than six years prior to the issue of this claim, any remedy in respect of the same, whether damages, restitution or otherwise, is barred by the operation of the limitation act 1980 and/or the doctrine of laches and the defendant will apply to strike out this aspect of the claim and/or summery judgement.

 

3) The defendant is embarrassed by the lack of particularity pleaded in the p.o.c. to the extent that the p.o.c. fail to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the defendant in particular ;

3.1 The p.o.c. set out no facts indicating what the claim is about, are incoherent and do not disclose any legally recognisable claim against the defendant.

 

4) the defendant invites the claimant to remedy the above. In the event that the claimant fails to so so within 14 adys of the service of the defence then the defendant will apply to the court for an order to strike out the p.o.c.

 

5) the defendant reserves the right to plead further to the p.o.c. once and if the claiment properly particularises the same. in the meantime, it is denied that the claiment is entitled to the relaif claimed or any releif whether as pleaded or at all.

 

 

My questions are if anyone can please help : I didnt put hardle any detail in the p.o.c. in my mcol and I realised this was wrong shortly after I did it so I can put more detail in but do I just send it to them in a letter ? ?

 

I have a good idea what to include in the letter but is there anything that I shouldnt mention ? I dont want to ramble too much in the response.

 

Also do i send a copy to the court ?

 

Why havent I been sent a A.Q. or will i get one soon ?

 

I have a more detailed breakdown of charges (schedule) now should I sent that as well ? ?

 

 

Any help whatsoever greatfully received ! !

[bobandsuzzi]

hi bluesnail

if you go into users CP at the top of every page and click on subscribed threads, you will be able to find your original thread

im no good on the legal stuff, but if you had used the POC in the library, then you shouldnt have had any problems , seems like they might have a point, but thats only my opinion

Bob and sue

[Matheos95]

Hi

 

The defence you have recieved is a little similar to mine have a look at my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/37730-claims-older-than-6-a.html if there is anything of use on there feel free to use it.

 

Cheers

 

Helen

[rbrears]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/15172-reply-stock-defence-18-a.html

 

some stuff here might help you

[blue snail]

thanks rbrears thats a huge help. I had done everything so carefully up to the point of filling in my mcol then I just fluffed it ! I read the small claims pack but I didnt find the mcol details in the templates section until after I had gone through with it so I was annoyed with myself. Anyway I think I now have the right info to do a revised p.o.c.

 

I know this is a very simple trivial question but on the covering letter from cobblers it says " please acknowledge receipt " how exactly do I do that ? Do i phone cobblers or write to them or write to the court ? Or can I do it online on the mcol site ? ? I know its a dumb question but thanks anyway.

[Michael Browne]

on the covering letter from cobblers it says " please acknowledge receipt " how exactly do I do that ? Do i phone cobblers or write to them

 

Write. Just a one liner.

[Guest peed orf]

Write. Just a one liner.

 

Is that all that's required, and maybe a copy of the speedsheet, just to be sure?

[blue snail]

blue snail here again still slightly confused ;

 

I have a letter ready to type up that runs allong similar lines to the threads ive been reading from 'natwesttookmymoney' , charleyspencer and rbrears . The letter contains basicly a revised and far more detailed p.o.c.

 

The question is do I just send a copy to the court and a copy to cobbetts, Im confused because I read somewhere that you are effectively doing another p.o.c. and you have to pay again. I also read that If you send it to the court they will somehow sanction it and create a sealed copy which they send back to you for you to then send to cobbetts ???

 

As i said i have formulated the letter ready to type up and i am happy that it contains all the relevant info im just not sure what to send where and when.

 

As ever any help greatfully received ! and thanks to all who have helped in the past

[Michael Browne]

The question is do I just send a copy to the court and a copy to cobbetts,

Yes.

 

Im confused because I read somewhere that you are effectively doing another p.o.c. and you have to pay again. I also read that If you send it to the court they will somehow sanction it and create a sealed copy which they send back to you for you to then send to cobbetts ???

This is if you file an amendment to your claim, but you shouldn't have to do this since Cobbetts in their defence 'invites the claimant to remedy the above. In the event that the claimant fails to so so within 14 adys of the service of the defence then the defendant will apply to the court for an order to strike out the p.o.c.' effectively agreeing to you submitting fuller POC's.

 

Cobbetts can't strike out the claim, only a judge can and if that happened you would be given notice to correct it before it was actually struck out.

[blue snail]

Thanks again Michael Browne. I shal put the letter in the post tomorow morning and see what happens after christmas. I started my claim in October thinking origionally I may get some money before xmas, never mind I expect it will be late January now but its well worth the wait.

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks again Michael Browne. I shal put the letter in the post tomorow morning and see what happens after christmas. I started my claim in October thinking origionally I may get some money before xmas, never mind I expect it will be late January now but its well worth the wait.

 

 

I take it you are joking ?

Cobbetts are not known to pay in 2 months......in fact your user name and them have more in common than you might think !