Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Sunak tried to stop the public seeing this report. Rishi Sunak ordered to publish secret analysis showing Universal Credit cut impact - Mirror Online WWW.MIRROR.CO.UK As Chancellor, Rishi Sunak ignored pleas from campaigners including footballer Marcus Rashford by scrapping the £20-per-week Universal Credit...  
    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Natwest loan - claiming charges & PPI when on DMP


Big Shoooz
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4257 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi! I am in a DMP with Payplan with credit card and bank debts going back some years.

 

I believe it is now possible to claim back unfair excessive charges from credit card companies

but can this still be done when those creditors are in a DMP?

(For one, they may wonder how I can afford a £10 fee for a SAR).

 

One of my DMP creditors is Natwest (bank loan, overdraft and credit card).

Could I try to claim unfair charges for all 3?

 

Also, what's best to do, SAR or CCA?

an I do these without involving Payplan?

 

Sorry for so many questions but I'm just learning about this process

and I find it confusing so any foolproof answers will be greatly appreciated!

 

If I can wipe off some of the old charges that will at least reduce the overall amount I owe.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Shoooz.Hi,Because you are on a DMP it does not stop you from claiming back unfair charges or PPI,it will reduce your debt .

 

Your point about the £10,this is not a problem you should under your DMP be allowed a small amount of spending money.

 

Yes from Natwest you can claim for all 3.

 

I am reading between the lines am I correct that you do not have all the statements for each debt?If not then a SAR will provide all this info,statements and all data for each account along with agreements/application forms T&Cs as long as you ask for them.

 

Have Payplan arranged 0% interest with your creditors or some of them?

 

Regards FS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi FirstShip, correct I do not have all the statements.

 

Payplan have negotiated frozen interest but whenever I fall behind with payments, the creditors always threaten to charge interest.

 

I'm currently suffering real hardship as I have had to give my job up due to health problems.

 

At the moment I have NO INCOME!

 

I am waiting to hear if I can get any benefits so I have informed Payplan of my situation

and they have even agreed to accept further debts which I stupidly incurred (catalogues, bank and payday loans..

...none of whom are yet freezing charges).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoooz. I very much hope you are able to obtain benefits in your current situation.

 

Payplan seem very much to be on your side which is good.Have they informed your creditors of your Hardship situation?

 

To save money write to your creditors and ask them for statements,from the start of the account to the present day, they may well co-operate without you having to pay any fee.You need these statements to assess the extent of the charges and the existence of PPI.

 

Regards FS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your advice Firstship.

Yes Payplan are very helpful and understanding. They haven't informed my creditors but have told me I can do so if I wish.

Should I still write to my creditors requesting statements by using the same wording as a SAR.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I will do that thanks.

 

Can I also send a SAR to the catalogue company or is it just credit cards and banks?

 

Is there a template letter on this site or should I just 'use my loaf' and also, is there a template letter for making £1 token monthly payments because if I do receive benefits, I would expect £1 will be the most I can pay each creditor.

 

Also, I send the letters directly to each creditor don't I and not the DCA?

Link to post
Share on other sites

u can send a SAR to everyone u owe money to. i hvae sent them to catalogues, credit cards and a loan company who put the ex tenants debt in my name:)

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoooz Hi..there is a hardship letter,however when you get onto benefits,just send the letter and pay the £1 per month to each creditor,it is important that you pay the money on a regular basis,then if the creditor is stupid enough to take you to court the judge will be displeased with them for wasting his time and award them £1 a month,in most cases the court situation will not arise.

 

As Godmother has stated you can SAR all creditors,as I said earlier just send the SAR request with details of your inability to pay,and do not pay them any SAR fee,most creditors will comply,most there will always be a difficult sod,not to worry see how it works out first,

 

Yes send the SAR to the OC unless the DCA owns the debt

 

regards FS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi FS, should I send the SAR before I offer £1 token payments?

 

I've read in another post on this site that it's a good idea to send a CCA and SAR at the same time.

 

Is it best to sign my requests as "Minnie Mouse" or "Betty Boo" or something ridiculous or just my usual signature with crosses through it?

 

Also, when I offer token payments are my creditors entitled to see my I&E?

 

Thankyou

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoooz.send the SAR then fix a date that is OK with you and pay your creditors £1 per month and stick to that payment each month,they will probably leap up and down,however as long as you have made them aware of your hardship they will not get to far,

 

In most cases the info you get from a CCA will be produced in a SAR although the odd difficult sod will with hold the agreement.

 

Signature just sign it put a line through the signature or just print it,again it may produce a letter saying no signature cannot produce the info,we can get round this if it happens

 

It will be good in this case to send an I&E,there is a good download on this site or use the CCCS version

 

regards FS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok FS thanks i will just send the SAR.

 

For the I&E, I can just send a summary can,t I (eg, total income xx total outgoings xx)?

 

As far as the Natwest debts are concerned, can I only SAR for the credit card and loan but not the overdraft?

 

Sorry for so many questions, I just want to get this right from the start....I don't want to trip myself up!

Link to post
Share on other sites

You do not need to sign the letter a printed name is fine.

Also FS is wrong in where to send the SAR to. U need to send it to the OC to see any charges they have put on it and then another one to the DCA or who ever holds the account currently. Also if it has changed hands several times to those who have previously held it as they may have added charges which can be reclaimed.

 

DCAs or who ever holds the account now are only obligated to give u information from when they took the account to present day they will even tell u they can not provide information in regards to anything later back than that or when it was held buy other people

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes u can SAR for the overdraft.

But dont expect to get much back except charges. Also if the Overdraft is linked to a bank account then u may get that info. To be certain put ALL the account numbers on the letter than they will have to send u EVERYTHING they hold on u.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Godmother, yes the overdraft is linked to a bank account so I will SAR Natwest for overdraft, current account, personal loan and credit card and see what happens.

 

Can you please answer my question above about the I&E......does it have to be detailed or just a summary. I'm still doubtful about sending one with my SARs though as my creditors don't legally have a right to this info do they?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoooz if you want to make your hardship details work you will need to send an I&E to each creditor remembering to also list what you are paying each creditor.You are correct in practice only a court can order that you produce an I&E,but as you are seeking their help i would suggest you try to helpful as well.Send this along with your £1 payment to the customer services,your SAR needs to be addressed to the Data Control dept as a separate letter

 

Godmother is correct in as much that a SAR needs to go to OC as well as the DCA.missed that out,am I correct there is only one DCA involved,with one of the debts ,if so who is it?

 

regards FS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh a lovely bunch of DCAs all have been delt with by me. One of them Reds is still demanding money from the previous tenants of my address despite knowning they dont live here. They even sent a collector to my door and as result they accused me of being bloody old

 

Anyways l would advise you send the letter immediately. In writing advise the people who are asking for money that you are waiting for SAR info from the OCs and until you have that info you cannot properly assess you money and accounts and offer a reasonable amount of payment. you will get back to them when you have the required information from the Ocs.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you good people please clarify exactly what can and what cannot be reclaimed from a bank these days as I am so confused?

 

Please confirm if any of the following are eligible for reclaiming:-

 

1. Personal loan PPI

2. Charges for going over current account overdraft limit

3. Overdraft usage charges

4. Charges for declined direct debits (where there were not enough funds in the account to pay a direct debit)

 

If there is anything else I have forgotten which CAN be reclaimed, please confirm.

 

Also, I am aware that credit card charges are still eligible for reclaiming, so if any of the above can be reclaimed and they are through a bank which I also had a credit card with (ie, Natwest), can I send one SAR to the same company even though their contact address is different?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you good people please clarify exactly what can and what cannot be reclaimed from a bank these days as I am so confused?

 

Please confirm if any of the following are eligible for reclaiming:-

 

1. Personal loan PPI - yes

2. Charges for going over current account overdraft limit - poss only under hardship

3. Overdraft usage charges - poss only under hardship

4. Charges for declined direct debits (where there were not enough funds in the account to pay a direct debit) - - poss only under hardship

 

If there is anything else I have forgotten which CAN be reclaimed, please confirm.

 

Also, I am aware that credit card charges are still eligible for reclaiming, so if any of the above can be reclaimed and they are through a bank which I also had a credit card with (ie, Natwest), can I send one SAR to the same company even though their contact address is different?

 

their CC might well be a diff 'wing'

 

try one - suck it and see

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

i said nothing about a 'ruling' as such

 

as for the closed accounts, again, 'hardship' is hardship, if anything can be done, it's worth asking.

 

p'haps a quick look around using the advanced search top right might answer a few of your questions.......

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...