a uk debt

[nicbax]

Hi, I am very new to this forum so please be gentle with me. I am hoping that a kind person will please help us. My wife and I have lived in spain for about 2 years. I am a pensioner and receive state and private pensions which together just cover all our living expenses here. We rent an Apt and do not

own property here or in the uk.

 

Two years ago I was made redundant and we sold our flat resulting in a shortfall of about £40,000

 

I owe council tax of about £600.

 

We use a friends address in the uk for post. I have a uk bank account into which my private pensions are paid and a spanish bank into which my state pension is paid. My wife does not work. Uk bank account in my name and spanish account is joint.

 

This month a debt collecting agency traced me to my friends address. I have not responded to this letter.

 

I am not a "duck and dive" guy and accept I owe the money but simply can`t afford any payments.

 

I am thinking of applying for voluntary bankruptcy and to give power of attorney to my agent so that he can attend court on my behalf.

 

I would very much appreciate any advice that you can please offer. The worry to us both is terrible.

thanks Nic.

Edited July 24, 2012 by citizenB
formatting for easier reading

[citizenB]

Hello

 

I will flag your thread for some help. A lot of the people helping are usually around during the evening.. so dont worry if you dont receive any posts just yet.

[dx100uk]

you say debt collector

 

or do you mean bailiff [if this is about your ctax debt?]

 

dx

[nicbax]

Hi dx, The letter to me is from debt collectors on behalf of the building society. I have never heard from anyone in respect of the council tax arrears. Thanks Nic

[unclebulgaria67]

Think you will need to deal with any bankruptcy yourself, using a company that helps clients abroad.

 

http://www.bankruptcyfromabroad.co.uk/

 

Unless your agent is an insolvency practitioner, I am not sure how they are going to help you. I think you have to deal directly with someone who is qualified to go through the bankruptcy process and not via a friend.

 

Suggest that you deal with this asap, by first letting the building society debt people know that you are resident in Spain and do not have any assets in the UK or in Spain. Advise them that you are currently discussing this problem, with a qualified debt advisor, who will be in contact in due course. This should save your friend dealing with your post any hassle, as they might send debt collectors to their door to make enquiries.

[nicbax]

Hi uncle bulgaria, thanks very much. A thorough search of the web leads me to beleive that a resident in the EEU can`t file for bankruptcy in the uk.

I could return to the uk for a couple of days to get the ball rolling and hopefully give the bankruptcy

agent power of attorney to attend the hearing on my behalf.

I would like to be proved wrong about being unable to file proceedings in the uk.

All help and advice gratefully received. Thanks Nic.

[unclebulgaria67]

The site I linked to appears to suggest that you can arrange UK bankruptcy from Spain. If not, then the site is giving an inaccurate position to potential clients.

[nicbax]

Hi unclebulgaria, thanks for that and indeed I have just emailed the people to ask specifically if I can petition from spain.

I shall let this forum know their answer.Thanks Nic,

[cerberusalert]

Yes you can apply for bankruptcy in the UK from another EU State within 3 years of moving there.

 

See; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255040-Declaring-Bankruptcy-In-The-UK-If-You-Now-Live-Abroad

[citizenB]

Hi, on your behalf I asked site team if your UK pension could be hijacked.. response below.

 

NO!!

 

How it works is: Go bankrupt and when doing so, include all debt up to the date of the order the CT is not for the current year so can be included. Comply with the order and one year following the bankruptcy order, the debt must be written off. They cannot take it off his pension if the debt is part of a bankruptcy order; only debt that is owed.

 

But the above is only relevant to UK BR and I see a problem. Can actually apply for bankruptcy in the UK if he is no longer resident here? As I understand it, someone living in another part the EU for more than 3 months must file for bankruptcy in the country they reside in, unless they can show that their main interests are in the UK. More here.

 

Of course if he cannot do it in the UK then he may be able to apply in Spain but I haven't a clue how Spannish BR works.

Edited July 25, 2012 by citizenB

[nicbax]

Hi, Thank you all very much for your advice. Having researched the matter further I am sure that I can`t apply for bankruptcy in the uk. If I were outside the EEU then no problem. The same applies to IVA`s.

I am left with no alternative than to email the debt collection agency and make a ridiculous offer which is all my finances will allow.

This brings me to my next concern; namely my small private pensions. Should a writ be issued can my creditors get an order to deduct a sum of money each month from these pensions. To do so would leave me with insufficient money upon which to live.

I have re-calculated my finances over a period of a year and my outgoings are about equal my income.

I would appreciate your views please. Thank nic.

[cerberusalert]

You can still apply for bankruptcy in the member state you are residing tho', but you must be aware that some EU countries have some rather archaic bankruptcy laws so you would need to research what they entail.

 

Generally a creditor will not bankrupt a debtor unless they are certain they will be able to recoup not only the original debt but also the cost of the bankruptcy which could be quite substantial if they have to take a cross border action.

 

A creditor wouldn't get a writ for anything, any bankruptcy would be controlled by the trustee and he would have to take into account your living expenses etc before he could determine what disposable income is available to pay the creditors.

 

http://bankruptcy.org.uk/archives/item/18001-can-i-apply-for-bankruptcy-whilst-outside-the-uk

[nicbax]

Hi cerberusalert thanks for the info. A bankruptcy specialist has informed me that he contacted the insolvency service and was told that I can`t file for bankruptcy in the uk. My immediate concern is proceedings for recovery being commenced and them freezing my bank account in the uk.

Looks like I shall have to wait and see what they do. Thanks again for your help. Nic

[cerberusalert]

They can't freeze or garnishee your UK a/c without permission of the court and they would first needed to have obtained a CCJ which you had defaulted on.

 

They would have to serve you with a Statutory Demand before they could apply for bankruptcy, in the majority of cases a SD is just a threat and rarely followed through but would still need to be taken seriously.

 

A bankruptee can still have a bank a/c although it would probably mean that you would need to open a new one as the original bank tends to close existing a/cs automatically when contacted by the trustee.

[unclebulgaria67]

Having read about bankruptcy application from abroad, yes you would have to apply from Spain at your local court and the process is not that straightforward. You would then have bankruptcy for the relevant period under the Spanish system.

 

In your situation, I think you should write to tell any creditors of your situation and provide your Spanish address. If they see from your credit record that you have a UK bank account, they might start legal proceedings using the UK address shown on the credit record. If this is your friends address, they might not be happy in getting letters, phone calls, doorstep collectors and possibly court forms sent to their address. If creditors knew you were abroad and could not defend, then in theory, they should not start any UK court proceedings.

 

I had communications to my address relating to a relative gone abroad and it went on for over 6 years. Debts kept getting passed on around the debt collection companies. If this were to happen to your friend, they might stop speaking to you.

[nicbax]

Hi Guys, Thanks very much for the helpful advice. I am preparing an email setting out my income and expenditure from which it is clear that I am unable to make any offer in settlement. I must say I am concerned about giving my spanish address. Would this not enable the "plaintiffs" to apply to the high court for an order for service out of the jurisdiction ie spain. Alternatively they could pass/ sell the debt to spanish collectors and I have no idea what they can do. I would really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks Nic.

[cerberusalert]

I must say I am concerned about giving my spanish address.

Can you rent a PO box there?

Would this not enable the "plaintiffs" to apply to the high court for an order for service out of the jurisdiction ie spain.

They can't bring an action in the UK against a non-UK resident they would have to use the Spanish courts & if the term mañana is true it could take months to get through the legal system even if they were willing to invest the time, money & energy.

 

Remember the bankruptcy laws work both ways, you can't apply after three months and neither can they.

[unclebulgaria67]

Can you rent a PO box there?

They can't bring an action in the UK against a non-UK resident they would have to use the Spanish courts & if the term mañana is true it could take months to get through the legal system even if they were willing to invest the time, money & energy.

 

Remember the bankruptcy laws work both ways, you can't apply after three months and neither can they.

 

Yes you can rent a PO Box down at the local post office. Many people living in non urbanised parts of the Spanish countryside do not have postal deliveries to their homes and rely on their nearest post office. Some people also share a Po Box with neighbours, to share the cost and to also share going to the post office for collections.

 

I think the OP needs to make creditors aware that they are abroad, otherwise they risk having a default court judgement which they would not know about and then they are located in Spain, with an application made to the Spanish courts. Better that they know now that the debtor is abroad, as that should stop them taking UK court action, if it could not be defended.

 

I know people who have moved to Spain with debts and to my knowledge chasing of the debts has been limited to a few letters. I think Spanish debt collectors are far too busy chasing debts owed by Spanish nationals and therefore probably can't be bothered with UK debts, which they are unlikely to recover.

[Sue72]

Are you positive that you won't be able to get an IVA? When I enquired about IVAs I was told that it would be possible and I've been out of the UK for a long time.