Antenatal Appointments and "Overtime"

[cakefood]

Hi there,

 

To be brief I have been informed by my HR department that if my antenatal appointments fall on days where I'm working "overtime", I would not be entitled to reasonable paid time off to attend my appointments.

 

I use the word "overtime" loosely because it doesn't really fit the legal description of overtime pay-I get paid overtime pay but I do not work more hours then a full time employee. I am contracted to work 8 hours a week-my contract is for 8 hours flexi-time so my shifts will vary week to week to suit the needs of the buisness but for at least the last 6 months I have been working on average around 24 hours a week part-time, 8 hours contracted, the rest paid as "overtime". Never have my official contracted hours been specified e.g. I do a four hour shift on a Wednesday and a Saturday which are my basic, and the rest of the week is over time. I just work my 24 hours a week, get paid 8 basic and 16 overtime.

 

My problem is now is that due to falling pregnant I am entilted to reasonable paid time off to attend antenatal appointments, however I am having to move my shifts around to accomodate the antenatal appointments if they happen to fall during hours that I'm working. As I have never had specified days or shifts that I work, they always say my appointments fall in the "overtime" and I would either have to lose the extra hours I'm working or try and swap with someone.

 

Can anyone tell me what my rights are with this?

 

All I can gather from Direct Gov and googling is that all employees either part-time or full-time are entitled to paid-time off but it doesn't go into specifics of if you're working over your contracted hours and your manager doesn't specify which hours are your overtime and which are your basic because I am expected to work at least 24 hours a week as it's part of my normal working pattern. To be quite honest, if I only worked my basic we would be incredibly short staffed so I work what hours they require me to.

 

Thanks for any and all help!

 

Also whilst I'm here, even though I've been working 24 hours a week I am still entitled only to my basic holiday? Is this right? I used to be on a casual contract with the company and would accumalate holiday pay, but now I am contracted I get a basic of 48 hours PA despite working 24 hours a week but we don't accrue the extra holiday or get paid accrued holiday pay-a lot of my colleagues are in the same position too so this would be good to know where we stand on this. I have brought it up before but it was kind of dismissed.

 

I work in retail by the way.

[becky2585]

If you're working 24 hours a week, unfortunately your employers request is entirely lawful and reasonable. Generally speaking, those on a three day week can be reasonably required to arrange ante natal appointments outside working hours.

 

But you are correct about the holiday entitlement!

[cakefood]

Obviously I would try to arrange my antenatal appointments outside of work when and where I can anyway, but often these are inflexible as the midwife/hospital have other patients to see so I have to accept what I am given eg. I had a scan appointment on Monday at 2:30, my shift was originally 10-2 so I requested that I could leave early to attend my appointment on time. Instead I had to start at 9 and work till 1, which is fine but surely I need to know whether that original 10-2 were working extra hours, or doing my contracted hours? Can I request that they have to specify what hours a week are my basic working hours and then if an appointment lands on those time I can expect to have reasonable paid time off to attend, even if those hours vary week to week?

 

If I was only working my basic hours of 8 a week and an appointment fell within those hours I would be legally entitled to have the time off to attend! Do you see what I mean? It's frustrating to say the least! And I don't really have the choice to work less hours, not with a baby on the way!

 

In my contract it says there is a reasonable expectation that hours I'm rota'd in for I am expected to work, so even if it is over my contract I'm still expected to work them (although I can give a weeks notice that I don't want to (this would cause many problems and my manager would make me feel quite guilty)).

 

I will raise the question of holiday again with them though!

 

ETA: I normally work 5 days a week. My hours are spread out over these days.

Edited July 20, 2012 by cakefood

[assisted blonde]

Dont know the legal answer on this as I am not up to speed on employment law, but common sense would suggest that if you are only working 24hrs a week then hospital/Drs/dentist appointments etc should be taken in your own time. You will obviously know in advance when your appts are so if you tell your employer then surely your shifts can be arranged round them if they are that flexible.

[cakefood]

Like I said, I want to know where I stand from a legal viewpoint and also like I said, sometimes the appointments are inflexible due to the demands of the midwife/hospital. For example, my antenatal appointments with the midwife are done at my GP surgery, but they are only available on a Wednesday in the afternoon. I have worked the same shift the last three months worth of Wednesdays-if I was contracted for my basic hours to work Wednesdays I would be entitled to that time off paid but because I work "overtime" I can't.

 

It's not the same as just going to Drs or Dentist for which you aren't entitled to time off. I am entitled to time off whether I work part time, full-time or casually by law to attend antenatal appointments including classes and groups. I don't want the stress of constantly having to rearrange my shifts or the constant threat that I will lose hours just because I am pregnant when if they had contracted me for the hours I do work I would get the time off paid (within reason, regardless). I am more then happy to be flexible with when I work and I let my manager know as soon as possible when I get an appointment through-but it isn't always possible for me to do a later shift that day, and if I'm working the rest of the week I would lose out through no fault of my own (apart from being pregnant for which I should not be discriminated against).

 

I want to know whether I can ask them to specify what out of my 24 hours each week are considered my contracted hours-even if the days vary due to the flexi-time nature of my contract because at the moment I work 24 hours a week and I am not told what days would be considered doing my contracted hours. This week I've worked Monday to Friday but I don't know what day or days of the week they would have just had me working had I not done any over time.

 

I can't link to it but the acas website states in it's FAQ I shouldn't be treated any different from a full-time employee and even if I were to work one day a week, if the appointment falls on that day I can have reasonable time off to attend.

[assisted blonde]

Sorry I still think that you are pushing it working part time and expecting to be paid for antenatal appointments. holidays yes you are entitled to them pro rata for the hours/days you work. yes you can try and get your employer to say which are your fixed hours and which are overtime but often when your contract is flexi there are no fixed hours as such you are just being paid for the number of hours you work. If you push it then I can see your employer just giving you your contracted hours and passing the overtime to someone else.

[becky2585]

I would suggest you request your hours from you employer so that you arrange with them in advance when you can rearrange the hours and when they should pay you for reasonable time off. Hopefully then you'll both know where you stand without things getting messy!

[cakefood]

Yes I work part-time but I shouldn't be treated any differently from a full-time worker, otherwise it would be discriminatory. I don't make the law, part-time workers are entitled to paid time off to attend appointments, the end. You think I might be pushing it but it's not a laughing matter when I have a baby on the way and a mortgage to pay. If you had a look at the ACAS website it specifies exactly what your telling me I shouldn't be entitled to when I am. Even if I only work one day a week I am still lawfully entitled to have time off should an appointment fall in that time. Note "if" and note "should", if it falls outside of work hours that's not a problem at all, if it falls on my day off I don't care. It's when it falls on days and shifts that I have been working for months and months and I can't swap my shifts or arrange in advance and end up losing money because they will always say I am working my extra hours and not my contracted hours that is making me question this whole debarcle in the first place.

 

RE flexi hours, I am contracted to work 8 flexi-hours a week so surely if I wasn't working any other hours that week I would have the days I'm contracted for?

 

I still work 5 or 6 days a week depending on how much in addition they need me. I don't think they'd give my overtime to anyone else because there is no-one else to cover the amount of hours I do! If I turned round to my manager and said I only wanted to work my contracted hours they would be extremely understaffed and at the moment she cannot take anyone else on-she would also say (because it's happened before when I wanted time off due to a looming deadline) due to having the rota done for several weeks there would be a reasonable expectation to work those shifts, as outlined in my contract so in short I would be obligated to work them even though their not contracted.

 

It's frustrating because I should be contracted for my full 24 hours a week but retail companies seem to take liberty after liberty. I work bank holidays for no extra pay, unsociable hours, I have worked 12 days in a row in the past and on top of that starting with the Olympics I now have to work ridiculous hours on a Sunday. I can only have one weekend off a month, the rest of my days off are sporadic, all I'm asking for reasonable time off if an appointment falls on a shift I'm working!

 

I have so far been very willing to just swap my shifts round and accomodate the interests of the business but as my pregnancy progresses and the amount of antenatal care increases I want to know that I can attend things recommended by my midwife without having to constantly worry about work. I've contacted the CAB so I'll wait and see what they say, and I will speak to my manager about her specifying my contracted hours when she does the rota so if it happens I get an appointment and I need to attend that appointment I would be entitled to leave early or come in later and be paid the same. That's all I want really- and it's not as if it's going to happen four times a week, maybe one day out of every month, maybe just for half an hour, maybe for two!

 

I have enquired about holiday pay today; would you be aware of when I can claim this from as like I said, I've been working 24 hours for the past 6 months which should amount to a fair amount of holiday pay/holiday accrument?

 

Thanks for your input, good and bad I'm just an angry hormonal pregnant lady at the moment

[stu007]

Hi

 

Have a look at The Equality and Human Rights Commission website may be of help and you can call then for advice.

 

Here is the link: www.equalityhumanrights.com/

 

Also have a look at the ACAS website: www.acas.org.uk/