Several payday loans - Advice needed

[PDLVictim]

Hi there,

 

I got myself into a complete mess with payday loans. I am already fighting my way out, but would need further guidance from all the experienced people here how to proceed.

 

The very short version of my story is that I started taking out my first payday loan back in 2009. I then was unable to repay in full (well actually I repaid in full but had to take the loan out again later in the month, so effectively "rolled over") and the amounts gradually increased. In December 2011 I was at a point where the sum of my outstanding payday loans were nearly 11000 GBP and where I paid nearly 2000 GBP month after month on interest alone. I must have paid over 20000 GBP on interest over these years and this makes me so angry with myself...

 

Then beginning of this year came the breaking point. Lucky for me I found this forum and so I cancelled my debit card, contacted the payday lenders and tried to arrange repayment plans. Some (a few) were surprisingly helpful, others were not so helpful, but I managed to get a plan with most of them.

 

The issue was that my aim was to not have a default on my credit rating. So despite paying off monthly to them, some lenders did not agree to my proposed 12 months repayment plan and insisted on shorter periods (some 6 months, some even shorter). So I paid these higher amounts with the "help" of "fresh" payday loans.

 

After 6 months of repayment I managed to reduce my payday loan debt from 10732 GBP in Jan 12 to 5352 GBP today.

 

Some of these 5352 GBP are "fresh" rolled over payday loans, some are outstanding balances of repayment plans.

 

I can see the amount rising again so I think I will not be able to avoid a default on my credit rating, so I am prepared to simply default on some of the fresh loans as this definitely has to stop now and I will not take out another payday loan next motnh (or roll over).

 

Here is an overview of the companies and amounts (incl interest):

 

Microlend 780 GBP - "fresh" loan, due 31 Jul

Wonga 620 GBP - "fresh" loan, due 31 Jul (I already repaid over 6 months a 200 GBP my previous Wonga loan, no idea why I even got a new one coming fresh off a repayment plan!!)

Lending stream 600 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 75 GBP

Toothfairy 544 GBP - "fresh" loan

MrLender 520 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 65 GBP

British Pearl/Spondoolies 450 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 50 GBP

SafeLoans 440 GBP - "fresh" loan

QuickQuid 438 GBP - on repayment plan - the 438 GBP is the last payment due on 31 Jul

MEM/PaydayUK 300 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 60 GBP

Pounds2Pocket 212 GBP - 212 GBP is the last rate due on 31 Jul

TxtLoan 150 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 40 GBP

Minicredit 130 GBP - "fresh" loan

WageDayAdvance 85 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 85 GBP

Speed-E-Loans 52 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 52 GBP

CashOnGo/Peachy 26 GBP - on repayment plan - monthly 13 GBP

 

My "available" money each month to pay these off is 1150 GBP. But with the "fresh" loans above I would need to pay over 3600 GBP on 31 Jul to satisfy all.

 

Now the advice I need, if anyone has experience with:

- Do some of these companies accept full and final settlement offers, or is this something you can only offer the DCAs?

- If yes, what percentage is reasonable?

- Some of the above I read here add exorbitant charges if I default (e.g. Toothfairy, Minicredit). I am afraid that these charges will bring me further in debt. Anyone has experience how to deal with these and if they "write off" some of the charges later on in the process?

- Will Wonga set me on a repayment plan again??

- Any idea who to pay on 31 Jul and who can wait??

 

Any help on the above questions, or any other help is so much appreciated.

 

Thank you very much!

[Jamie Kingston]

Hey PDL Victim, well done for trying and doing well with getting out of the cycle. I've not been on the forum for a while due to a new addition to the family! I'm sure lots of others will be round with more advice.

 

Be up front with the smaller lenders as early on as possible, giving plenty of warning gives you a strong position to stop them from adding charges if payment is missed and shows you are actively trying to sort out the situation, this should work in your favour as quite a few will offer settlements or suitable repayment plans.

 

1) Micro Lend - known to take people to court and apply for an attachment of earnings (personal experience a long time ago), I would ask to split over 3 months before defaulting and see what they say, deal with if you can they seem to cause a lot of agro

2) Wonga - They have to accept any reasonable payment plan so I would go for 18 months

3) Toothfairy - known to make the debt and increase to stupid amounts, try and make a split over 8 months with them and see what they say

4) Safe Loans - fish for a settlement or 6 month split

5) Mini credit - pay off in full, or split over 3 months

 

Let me know your thoughts and what they say!

[PDLVictim]

Hi Jamie, thank you for your quick response and congratulations to the new addition to your family!

 

Very useful advice. So it seems Micro Lend is one of the urgent ones with the most impact, so I will call them next Monday and see what I can work out with them. If they would accept to split the repayment over 3 months that would leave me enough to pay off Mini credit in full.

 

Just in case Micro Lend does not accept, do you remember how long it took them from defaulting until the court would decide on attachment of earning?

 

Once I spoke to them, I will then try the others and go and try with the split times you mentioned.

 

Thank you again for your help, I will keep you updated.

[Jamie Kingston]

They waited about two weeks and then served court paperwork which took another two weeks and then I had an earnings Arrestment about 3 months later for around £200 per month on quite a large balance, prefer to forget about it!! I've read around and I reckon you'll get a 3 month split with interest frozen. Make sure you have everything backed up in email as well. Let me know how the others pan out too though I dont think it'll be too hard! Baby crying now...

[PDLVictim]

Hi Jamie, thank you very much for checking, and for the information. I will try the 3 months. Sorry to have reminded you!

 

I hope you will get some sleep. They finally will grow up

[PDLVictim]

Hi Jamie, hi all,

 

A quick update regarding Micro Lend: I phoned them and they were really nice and so helpful They were able to split it into two months, which is enough for me continuing on my road to a life without PDL, so I am very happy I will send them a christmas card

 

Jamie: I agree with your other post that calling the lenders might get you better results than emailing

[Jamie Kingston]

Great news, told you so!! Let me know how the rest go through, should be a breeze!!!

[renegadeimp]

Make sure you get the agreements in writing before ANY payments are made. And never give them your bank details.

[grumpybutgorgeous]

Hi PDLvictim,

 

How are you? I myself was in a real mess, but after having a wee breakdown, i've managed to get on top of things and for the first time in a very longtime, i'm now in control. Reading up on all the unhappiness that payday loans have caused, the success stories and the many people who are now seeing light at the end of the tunnel has been the greatest therapy for me, and what starts as off as a little bit of financial help turns into your worst nightmare. I'm intrigued by your dealings with Swift Sterling, i read in one of your posts that you secured a payment plan with them, could you tell me more? They were vile beyond belief to me and it kinda knocked me for six, and having spare time to write things down, i've started a journal and your input would be marvelloues with regards to them.

 

Grumpy x

[PDLVictim]

Hi Grumpybutgorgeous,

 

I am fine, thank you. Hope you are well, too!

 

Good to hear that you are in control of things, that is the most important

 

Most of my dealings with SwiftSterling I already put in the post you have read. I think they are probably difficult on the phone because they are only a broker, and I think it will be very difficult for them to get their high brokerage fee (which is the majority of the "interest" for the loan) through to court. That is probably why they would waive this fee, even if you withdraw from the contract after 14 days. I also doubt their "lender" based in Malta will easily go to court here, so their only option is to sell it on to a DCA (similar to QuickQuid/PoundsToPocket).

 

I think the biggest advantage I had when talking to them, apart from being a "long term customer", was that I am talking on the phone in my job all day, so it is probably easier for me to convince people on the phone and I cannot be easily be harrassed. But they are quite tough on the phone.

 

I think it would be good idea to create some kind of "script" with standard sentences to say when dealing with payday loan companies over the phone. This would probably help some people. I think the best method to fight back to payday companies is to use their methods against them. If they harrass you with numerous phone calls to you, why not call them numerous times (some companies are really small and they will notice that - I did that with MrLender ). If they have "scripts" to deal with customers, why not having a script yourself with standard sentences to say to them...

 

Let me know if you need more information about SwiftSterling, or any others, and if yes, what exactly you are looking for.

 

Thank you

[renegadeimp]

We already have a script.

 

DOnt answer their "security questions", and simply say " Please do not call me again. Everything in writing please". Overtalk them if you need to, then hang up. The worst thing you can do with a PDL or its partners, is to answer their questions and enter into a conversation with them.

[PDLVictim]

Hi Renegadeimp,

 

Thank you. I agree this is a perfect script to avoid calls from them and keep everything in writing. And I also agree that everything in writing is beneficiary as you have proof and also cannot be so easily harassed.

 

Nevertheless there are situations and lenders where it is easier to come to a solution over the phone (with a confirmatory follow up email). I just thought for some people this might be a better route... and those people might benefit from another "script"...

[renegadeimp]

If its easier to come to a solution over the phone and they refused in the first instance to deal in writing, then something is seriously wrong with that lender. It is your legal right to NEVER have to communicate with them by phone and to have everything in writing. For instance, a lender could yell down the phone, threaten debtors and force them into agreeing something they cant afford on the phone. Then it gets written up in an "agreed" email. However, there is no proof of what happened on the phone and very few people actually record the call. A lot of creditors agree with what you say on the phone, and still debit the account regardless of what you say.

 

If people are struggling with debt, they should NEVER call their creditor. That is exactly what the creditor wants them to do. And also why everything should be in written form. It provides a complete paper trail should the debt ever go to a court. I understand what you are saying, but past experience and helping hundreds of people on these forums shows that email/letter > phone.

[Jamie Kingston]

PDL Victim - i second that.

[dx100uk]

hehe PDL victim i was gonna say you sound like jamie kingston lo and behold he appears

 

as you can see if you search back on old JK posts its been taken to task many times before

 

cag's view is not to call any creditor or DCA

 

as you will not hve a papertrail if it turns nasty.

 

dx

 

 

dx

[ims21]

PDL companies are some of the worst businesses to deal with.

 

I would advise anyone to stick strictly to the written word with these outfits.

 

As has been said many times before, unless you have the means to record the call then do not try and negotiate with them on the phone. They will try all sorts of intimidation tactics and if there is no recording of the call then there is no paper trail of evidence should this be needed at a later date.

 

There is no obligation to deal with financial matters on the phone and I would strongly recommend to members that they only deal with these people in writing. That can be either by e-mail or snail mail. If you e-mail you would be wise to copy yourself in on the e-mail so there can be no doubt that your correspondence was sent.

 

Never ever trust a PDL company

 

Dealing in writing will pay you back in spades if push comes to shove.

[PDLVictim]

Hi,

 

A lot of responses - thank you.

 

@ renegadeimp:

I so agree with you, that if, as you say, a lender refuses to deal with in writing, there is something wrong with them and you should probably not get on the phone with them.

 

I think the kind of Toothfairy and Mini Credit, where you get 'auto-responses' triggered by key words, are probably the worst of this kind.

 

Instead of saying directly "I do not deal with you in writing, call me instead",

they instead "force you" to call them by simply not letting you easily enter into a written communication with them.

 

So it is probably no point calling these

 

I also agree that there is no proof what actually happened in the call, but this would be on both sides (the debitor and the creditor).

 

So if they send a follow up email and this is not what was agreed, then there is still time to write back and clarify what was agreed or start re-negotiations again.

The creditor will record the call, so if worse comes to worse they have to prove as well what happened.

 

I think the main issue, as you already mentioned, is that via the phone most of them will try to bully you into "arrangements" which are beyond

and above what you initially were prepared to pay.

 

And of course they might harrass you, shout at you, etc.

 

I was more thinking that in some cases, depending on which lender, and definitely depending on what kind of person the debitor is,

it might be beneficial to give it a try and call, remembering you can hang up the phone anytime and switch back to email

 

@ site team: Thank you, I will have a look at Jamie's old posts I understand CAG's view

 

To illustrate here are two of my experiences for each route (email/call):

 

- MrLender: I called them as I thought this is a small lender and the amount owed was high,

so my thinking was if I mess this up I am in trouble (high amount), and it is a small lender, so maybe easy to talk to.

 

I thought it was a small lender, as I had several loans previously with them, most agreed over the phone,

and always spoke to the same person when I called

 

So I phoned them, and explained the situation.

 

They were not very understanding, sounded very angry, and asked a lot of questions I was not expecting

(e.g. why I took out the loan only a few days ago and now suddenly my situation changed).

 

This obviously was to

a) make me feel bad and

b) accuse me indirectly of "fraud".

 

I had several calls with them until we agreed a repayment plan.

 

The interesting point is that at one point we agreed over the phone that they "waive" 150 GBP interest at the end of the plan.

 

On my next call when actually setting up the plan they read out the plan and the 150 GBP were still there,

so I told them "Sorry, last time in my call with Mrs X I agreed with her to waive these 150 GBP" and guess what happened:

The person I spoke to went over to Mrs X, asked her if that was what was agreed over the phone, she confirmed,

and then the 150 GBP were removed.

 

The follow-up email I received also confirmed this.

 

So here the call actually worked and I think I was more successful with calling than I would have been with email.

 

- Wage Day Advance:

I emailed them, and we sent a lot of emails back and forth until a repayment plan was agreed.

Due to these lengthy negotiations I had to pay one month more interest in total, as the negotiations took one month.

Makes me thinking that some lenders tend to "stretch" the negotiation process to freeze interest at the latest point possible

 

Now the point here is that despite my email only negotiations and my written repayment plan they still set up a direct debit every month for the full amount

[Jamie Kingston]

I think I might be able to retire - thanks PDL Victim - lol.

[PDLVictim]

Hi everyone,

 

I had contacted SafeLoans (440 GBP due on 31 Jul 12) by email and asked for a repayment plan. They wanted an I/E form, which I sent in (I know I do not necessarily have to, but it was no harm to me).

 

Now they come back and want a copy of my latest pay-slip. I could obviously send this to them, but does anyone has any idea why they want this?

 

Thank you for your help!

[Jamie Kingston]

They probably want it to check that what you are saying is true. I hardly doubt it's going to show anything else to them other than your address, which they have, your name, which they have and your NI number? which I'm not sure if they have. Your choice, i personally would do it, but i'm sure someone here will disagree!

[PDLVictim]

Thank you, Jamie. I just send it to them, so let's see what they come back with

[dx100uk]

they are not entitled to see any of your personal financial details

 

only a judge can demand that

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

Do not send it them. THey have no right to even ask for it.

[PDLVictim]

Thank you. As posted before I had already send it to them.

 

They came back to me just now and... accepted a repayment plan over 11 months.

 

Meanwhile I phoned QuickQuid (I sent them an email first but they wanted to discuss over the phone). They were very nice on the phone and accepted a further repayment plan over 6 months.

 

Very happy now, just waiting for Wonga to come back to me, and still no clue how to deal with Toothfairy... Time will tell.

[renegadeimp]

Do NOT pay Quick Quid ANYTHING, until you have confirmation of the agreement in writing. They are well known for agreeing something verbally, then doing a complete 180 and debiting the account for whatever they want, when they want. Also, you must make sure that you ar epaying by standing order. Do not pay by a method that gives them the ability to debit your account.