City of Westminster - motorcycle PCN - pay by phone time delay...

[shivayash]

Dear all,

 

I was given a ticket on 23.05.2012 within three minutes of paying for my scooter parking by text message. As many of you know, City of Westminster only accept 'pay by phone' and have done for a few years now.

 

There was a delay in receiving my parking ticket SMS text message. I received the confirmation SMS text at 11.42am. The parking ticket was issued at 11.39am. I SMS'd for the parking ticket at 11.38am.

 

I note Westminster operate a three minutes 'allowance' for parking meters and pay and display bays. I also understand he same principle applies to all the other parts of the protocol where a 3 minute allowance is given.

 

Westminster have replied with the following (by letter), also attached with Notice to Owner document.

 

"Your challenge against this PCN has been rejected because your vehicle was observed by the CEO for 6 minutes."

 

Advise sought.

 

Best wishes,

 

ShivaYash

Westminster PCN 23.05.2012 forum.pdf

[jpegnall]

I suggest you call the payment line and time roughly how long it takes to pay, i.e. go through all the steps and enter your card number in wrong.

 

It does look like you returned to your vehical at the time your ticket was being issued then made the call to try to get out of the fine so you need to discharge this argument. The only way I can see you doing this (without it being such a risk) is to prove that you would have to have been on the phone before 11:38 (i.e. paying takes on average 4 minutes, and you entered in your details wrong so it took longer).

 

However, you may wish to contact the company that operates the payment system to see if they keep a record of the time calls were started as this could help you out a fair bit.

 

If they don't I personally would have a stab at it, drag the process out to the independant adjuication stage where, with a bit of creativity (i.e. my call cut off the first time, I entered my details wrong, I had to move away from my car to get signal, but had started the call during the observation period) you may get lucky...

[shivayash]

I suggest you call the payment line and time roughly how long it takes to pay, i.e. go through all the steps and enter your card number in wrong.

 

It does look like you returned to your vehical at the time your ticket was being issued then made the call to try to get out of the fine so you need to discharge this argument. The only way I can see you doing this (without it being such a risk) is to prove that you would have to have been on the phone before 11:38 (i.e. paying takes on average 4 minutes, and you entered in your details wrong so it took longer).

 

However, you may wish to contact the company that operates the payment system to see if they keep a record of the time calls were started as this could help you out a fair bit.

 

If they don't I personally would have a stab at it, drag the process out to the independant adjuication stage where, with a bit of creativity (i.e. my call cut off the first time, I entered my details wrong, I had to move away from my car to get signal, but had started the call during the observation period) you may get lucky...

 

Sadly you didn't understand my position.

 

I gave the times the ticket was issued vs the time the ticket, via text message was purchased. I got back to the scooter at 1pm, well after the ticket was issued. There is no fowl play here on my party.

[jpegnall]

No I understood - but where you were and what time you got back to the car are not the issue, what it looks like to the person deciding whether to allow the appeal or not it the issue.

 

Whatever you say they will treat as rubbish, unless you can substantiate it. So you need to prove you started that call before 11:39. What would be helpful is proof that you arrived (i.e. parked around that time too). I.e. do you park there at that time on a regular basis, did someone else know what time you left to go there etc. If you can show you a) didn't arrive until around 11:30(ish) and also prove you didn't leave until 13:00, you could argue that it is unconsionnable for the council to asset that you parked, lingered around for a few minutes then got a fine and then decided to pay before going about your business whilst it is so clear that you (as you may usually do) left x place, parked at the location, went about paying - which due to the system takes a while - and during that time a target seeking TA gave you a ticket.

If you park there on a regular basis presumably you have evidence that you normally or have paid for tickets before - again this will all help.

[CrappoMan]

If you paid by phone, an itemised phone bill will show the exact time the call was started and its duration. Simples!

[shivayash]

I PAID BY TEXT MESSAGE - SMS...

 

not by calling someone.

 

from the moment i sent the text to me receiving confirmation, there was a delay.

i was ticketed during this delay... of a few minutes.

 

no where does the instructions on pay by phone state you must stay with your vehicle until you have received the confirmation text message.

[tomtubby]

You would get a far better response if you started a new thread in the local authority parking section.

 

Link below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?363-Local-Authority-Parking-and-Traffic-Offences

[CrappoMan]

Does your phone show the date/time the message was sent. You need evidence of the TIME that the SMS was sent.

Can you take a photo of both the sent and received SMS, that may show the time delay.

[jpegnall]

Your phone bill will show the time the text was sent.

[shivayash]

I thought I was in this section! I have reposted as suggested.

 

You would get a far better response if you started a new thread in the local authority parking section.

 

Link below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?363-Local-Authority-Parking-and-Traffic-Offences

[shivayash]

Dear all,

 

I attended PATAS this weekend and my appeal was rejected, however the adjudicator made a very strong recommendation. See WM74558527 judgment - forum.pdf

 

A good result I think.

 

Best wishes,

 

ShivaYash