Time off or medical appointments for disabled employee

[goboy]

Should a large multi-national high street retailer have in place a disability leave policy for disabled member of their staff when that employee needs to attend hospital for appointments. If they do not have a disability leave policy in place, which I expect will be the case as disabled employee has asked for it and manager said he did not know, how should disabled leave be taken to attend medical appointments. Should the disable employee be made to make up the time taken for appointments on different days as I do not think it is fair if the disabled employee has to use their holiday leave for this purpose.

[Emmzzi]

Either using holiday or allowing flexitime would be reasonable.

 

Paid time for appointments would be the exception rather than the rule.

[robbond55]

Hello. I think the previous post is incorrect. Under the Equality Act 2010, or the previous Disability Discrimination Act, it is all about reasonable adjustments.

If the company was aware of the persons disability, and that the medical and hospital appointments are all directly linked to that persons disability, then they shjould be allowed the time off without using holiday or lieu time, or taking extra paid time off.

Please bear in mind these acts are to ensure an 'equal playing field', and take into account what holiday time the person would have if they did not have a disability. Therefore, they should not have to suffer the consequence of losing time off, paid leave etc due to the fact they have a disability.

Please feel free to correct me on this but I feel that this the current legisalation on this.

[Emmzzi]

Not as clear cut. "It depends." How many appointments, how long, etc etc etc. In practice most employers I have worked for are ok with a one off here and there but not, say, 4 hours twice a week...

 

http://www.xperthr.co.uk/faqs/topics/6,57/disability-discrimination.aspx?articleid=57196&mode=open

 

Section 20 of the Equality Act 2010 imposes a duty on all employers to make reasonable adjustments to any provision, criterion or practice applied by them, or physical feature of their premises, that places a disabled person at a substantial disadvantage. The Equality Act 2010: employment statutory code of practice (PDF format, 1.09MB) (on the EHRC website) lists examples of steps that an employer may have to take in order to comply with this duty. The examples given include "allowing the person to be absent during working or training hours for rehabilitation, assessment or treatment". However, the code says nothing about payment for such time off. What is reasonable for the employer to do will depend on the circumstances of the particular case.

 

Relevant factors to consider will be the employer's size and financial resources, the terms of the employee's contract, whether or not the employer normally pays employees for time off work to attend medical appointments (and for time off for other reasons such as sickness absence), the amount of time off that the disabled employee requires and the cost of paying for the time off. In essence, unless there is some tangible and concrete reason why it would not be reasonable to pay the disabled employee for time off to attend medical appointments, payment should be made. Even if it is not the employer's normal practice to pay employees who take time off to attend medical appointments, it may be reasonable to make payment in the case of an employee with a disability. Section 13(3) of the Equality Act 2010 makes it clear that it is not discriminatory against other employees to give special treatment to a disabled employee.

[lbruk]

A reasonable adjustment would be to allow time off to go to medical appointments. I think you might struggle to argue that being paid for them is also reasonable, unless the company has set precedence with other disabled/abled employees.

[goboy]

A reasonable adjustment would be to allow time off to go to medical appointments. I think you might struggle to argue that being paid for them is also reasonable, unless the company has set precedence with other disabled/abled employees.

 

Thanks everyone for help, the employer has said in writing that they pay phase back to work if someone had an operation but not for disabled people what are they saying that they pay some staff but not others.

Is it reasonable for them to change shifts on flexi time if they employee has to go to hospital for appointments. They seem so unreasonable and all seems to be at the discretionary of the managers. :x:mad2:

[Emmzzi]

see post 4 goboy - it depends on the employer, the kind of work, how much time and how often. No one can say for sure wha is reasonable and what is not I am afraid, it is much better to come to an agreement by discussion if you can. And get your union rep involved.

[lbruk]

Goboy, what I think they refer to is that they pay for work done on phased return, so they allow you to come back for 10 hours, you get paid for 10, then you raise to 15, get paid for 15 etc etc..

[yourturntopay]

I am classed as disabled andI work for the local authority .

 

I was referred to Occupational Health, who advised my Line Manager that I meet the criteria as set out in the Equality Act and that I should be considered as disabled and reasonable adjustments should be made in respect of my need to attend hospital treatments once a week and all other medical appointments.

 

I am allowed paid time off to attend all hospital appointments and hospital treatments. They have also agreed that when i need to attend my specialist consultant (its a 175 mile round trip) i am allowed to take the day off as paid.

 

If i am unable to return to work after my weekly treatment (sometimes the treatment can flare my medical condition and cause severe pain) then i am allowed to take this as paid sick leave

 

I have just returned to work on a phased return after being signed off for 3 months following an operation. I had to use annual leave to the difference betwen the hours worked during my phased return and my contracted hours.

Edited June 24, 2012 by yourturntopay

[goboy]

Goboy, what I think they refer to is that they pay for work done on phased return, so they allow you to come back for 10 hours, you get paid for 10, then you raise to 15, get paid for 15 etc etc..

Thanks 1bruk, but they have said in writing that they only pay staff in full if they had an operation and their for them on a phase back to work provided that they have not used up all the sick entitlement for that year.

I am classed as disabled andI work for the local authority .

 

I was referred to Occupational Health, who advised my Line Manager that I meet the criteria as set out in the Equality Act and that I should be considered as disabled and reasonable adjustments should be made in respect of my need to attend hospital treatments once a week and all other medical appointments.

 

I am allowed paid time off to attend all hospital appointments and hospital treatments. They have also agreed that when i need to attend my specialist consultant (its a 175 mile round trip) i am allowed to take the day off as paid.

 

If i am unable to return to work after my weekly treatment (sometimes the treatment can flare my medical condition and cause severe pain) then i am allowed to take this as paid sick leave

 

I have just returned to work on a phased return after being signed off for 3 months following an operation. I had to use annual leave to the difference betwen the hours worked during my phased return and my contracted hours.

Your employer sounds very reasonable yourturntopay, the employer I am referring to is not reasonable and employees have to wait years for adjustments that is not very expensive to be made and also some adjustments do not cost them anything to do but the nasty managers that have all the discretion are just that nasty. The more reasonable staff are to them they become more unreasonable and do not want staff to use their holidays leave for holidays but use it up for medical appointments.

Also could someone be able to help with holiday leave how much holiday is it now for employees a year. Everything has to be checked as they enjoy doing staff out of money and statutory entitlements. Is it still 5 weeks holiday entitlement for holidays.

[lbruk]

Holidays have changed quite a lot, but it depends on how many hours you work etc, you get a specific amount of days that you accrue throughout the holiday year. If you work full time (5 days) then you are allowed 29 days holiday per holiday year, this includes all bank holidays.

[goboy]

Holidays have changed quite a lot, but it depends on how many hours you work etc, you get a specific amount of days that you accrue throughout the holiday year. If you work full time (5 days) then you are allowed 29 days holiday per holiday year, this includes all bank holidays.

 

Thanks 1bruk, you have said that you used to work in the retail industry and it is great getting help from you as you know how the industry works.

 

They have given her xx weeks and it says on her form that the number of customary holiday not worked were back hours exist is xx she does not know what that means.

 

It also says tht RTW dates shown is correct as the time the holiday were confirmed but the date may change with the changes . What do you think this means.

Edited June 25, 2012 by goboy

[borisbeaver]

I work for the NHS and have to work any hours I take off for appointments.

[Sidewinder]

There is a requirement to make reasonable adjustments. As stated previously, the reasonable adjustment would be that the disabled employee may attend hospital appointments which cannot be arranged for non-work times, without suffering a detriment in terms of those absences being recorded alongside others for the purposes of totting up in order to instigate disciplinary sanctions for the absence.

 

It is entirely 'reasonable' that the employer should not have to pay the employee whilst they are not actually working, and indeed there is nothing which says that they should. It is reasonable for the employee to make back the time or to use paid holiday entitlement in order to not suffer a loss of earnings, and equally reasonable for the employer to allow this.

 

It is clear that some employers are extremely fair (and even generous) in how they apply policy and payment for attending appointments, and equally clear that others are not so obliging!

 

If it were the case that different rules applied for disabled and non-disabled employees, then there may be a case for discrimination, however this would be unlikely to be proven in the example given of an unforeseeable hospital operation versus long term regular appointments.

[goboy]

Hi and thanks for help for my aunt, she got a printout of her company policy and it says...

The company sick pay period runs from 1st April to 31st March, and entitlement may not be carried over from one year to the next even when a period of absence spans the end of one entitlement year and continues in the next entitlement year. It also says that an employee who is on unpaid sickness absence on the 1st April will regain their company sick pay entitlement when they return to work.

 

It also says that whilst sick pay will normally be granted automatically for genuine absence. It will always be at the discretion of the company.

 

Are they saying that my aunt illness is not genuine absence. They refused to send her to their OH and now they are not paying her for any illness they say she has to wait 3 months for any payment of sickness leave.

 

This does not sound correct to me.

[Emmzzi]

hold on - I thought we were discussing time for planned appointments. Now we're on sick pay. What happened, there is a chunk of information missing here. Is she actually off ill?

[postggj]

Hi and thanks for help for my aunt, she got a printout of her company policy and it says...

The company sick pay period runs from 1st April to 31st March, and entitlement may not be carried over from one year to the next even when a period of absence spans the end of one entitlement year and continues in the next entitlement year. It also says that an employee who is on unpaid sickness absence on the 1st April will regain their company sick pay entitlement when they return to work.

 

It also says that whilst sick pay will normally be granted automatically for genuine absence. It will always be at the discretion of the company.

 

Are they saying that my aunt illness is not genuine absence. They refused to send her to their OH and now they are not paying her for any illness they say she has to wait 3 months for any payment of sickness leave.

 

This does not sound correct to me.

 

 

on what basis are the saying the illness is not genuine, are they medically qualified, i think not

 

that is why you have an occupational health department to be refered to. they will liase with your own doctor and devise a back to work plan.

 

even if your company does not have an occupational health dept, they can refer you to one

 

ATOS for example, let alone your employer getting a report from your own GP

 

they also have a legal requirement to do this under regulation 3 & 5 of The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999

[Emmzzi]

squaddie, I think we don't have enough information yet.

 

We have established the employer does not *have* to give paid time off for appointments.

 

We don't know if any other kind of time off is being discussed yet.

[goboy]

Hi, she had time off due to illness and waiting for adjustments to be made, when the adjustments were made she went back to work on phased back, but the manager said that she would only get paid for what she worked.

My aunt got some more information about that and it says that phase back to work will be paid when employee is recovering from a serious illness or operation or when they have an ailment that prevents them from retuning to work in their normal capacity. If employee has not exhausted their company sick leave they can take it from that leave. Manager has told her that she cannot be paid for her phased back to work.

Aunt had to take a half day off recently due to her having a hospital appointment, but went back to work after that appointment, but the next day she bad headache and left work early 4 hours’ time taken off work. Her manager has told her that she will not be paid for that 4 hours and also she would have to work to build up her sick pay entitlement again which would be 13 weeks without any time off work being ill. My aunt thinks it is the environment that she is working in that caused her headache but does not want to do anything about it just yet as she wants to see if they will pay her phase back to work first.

[Emmzzi]

Sounds like they should be paying pahsed return t me but the question is, what is she prepared to do about it? All the knowledge in the world won't help if she wants a quiet life.

 

She has approached manager who has said no. Going over the manager's head is a sure fire way to break down any working relationship. I'd suggest a letter to the manager outlining her interpretaton of the sick policy and asking for clarification in writing.

 

I take it she is not in a union or they would be helping instead of us?

[goboy]

I do not think she cares anymore they are such a bad employer and want their customers to think the opposites to how they really are…. They have broken every rule in the book with regard to Health and Safety at work and now they do not even want to pay employees as well. She will take out yet another grievance and get Health and Safety involved. She wrote the manager asking for risk assessment but this has been ignored it.

[Emmzzi]

then HSE is as good a route as any.

[goboy]

Thanks, I will tell her to contact HSE, but should she put in another ET1 for discrimination due to them not paying her phase back to work and other deductions as well and is this discrimination due to her disability which they have now finally accepted.

[Emmzzi]

The ET will decide if it is a disability, and if it is discrimination. Again if she doesn't care about maybe losing her job - she might as well.

[goboy]

She has had two accidents at work due to them not making adjustments for her and the stupid manager wanted her to go back without adjustments which her GP and A2W recommended. She refused to go back without the recommended adjustments being put in place for her. Now they are stopping her salary because she was off work. The company OH confirmed 4 years ago that she had underlying health problems but that did not stop them being beastly toward her.

 

No wonder she does not care about going back there again.