Bristow and Sutor help pls

[Matheos95]

Hope someone can help. Last year I left a business I had been helping run which is now closed.

 

I left due to stress etc although nothing official but it was have a serious impact on my health. Anyhow the council tax was stupidly in my name and now they are chasing me at home.

 

I dont deny the bill and I am not against paying it. So when Bristow and sutor contacted me I sent them and email asking to pay £50 per week which they replied in a letter I could do for 5 weeks but wanted details of my benefit but I hadnt claimed after leaving the business so had nothing to send them, so I just kept on paying.

 

Then a few weeks ago I got another letter saying Failure to pay, this I thought was a comp error as I was still paying.

 

Then today there was a letter through the door saying a bailiff had called 'A BAILIFF REMOVAL TEAM VISITED TODAY TO REMOVE YOUR GOODS FOR SALE BY PUBLIC AUTION' its titled with the details for the bailiff and the line 'THE INITIAL CHARGE FOR TODAYS VISIT IS £180'

 

Now i have paid religiously for the last 12 weeks the £50 per week. I tried emailing them direct but they said the wont talk to me as the bailiff was involved and wont agree a plan.

 

My question is where do i go from here I really hate these people and their bullish tactics what would happen if i stopped paying them and sent the money direct to the council instead.

 

Please help

Edited June 20, 2012 by citizenB
spacing for easier reading

[citizenB]

If you were paying and can prove this, then there is something very wrong.

 

What type of benefit are you on - can you be classed as vulnerable ?

[Matheos95]

Im not on benefits, I chose not to claim after the business. My husband works so he pays for everything atm. And im not classed as vulnerable no. I have kept all records from the payments made to these people 12 regualr payments made every Friday. I just wanna pay the council direct, i dont want to deal with these people but not sure of the consequences.

[hallowitch]

Then today there was a letter through the door saying a bailiff had called 'A bailiff REMOVAL TEAM VISITED TODAY TO REMOVE YOUR GOODS FOR SALE BY PUBLIC AUTION' its titled with the details for the bailiff and the line 'THE INITIAL CHARGE FOR TODAYS VISIT IS £180'

 

if they haven't got a levy on your goods then he cant remove your goods or charge a fee for todays visit

[brassnecked]

No attending to remove fee without a prior levy B & S come on don't be muppets

[Matheos95]

Can they levy without you being here, sounds a dumb question I know but one i had to ask

[hallowitch]

Can they levy without you being here, sounds a dumb question I know but one i had to ask

 

 

they can and do levy on vehicles parked in the street or on you drive they also levy on garden furniture these thing they can levy without you being there because they are not in your house

 

If someone let them into your house they can levy

 

all of the above can be done without the debtor being present

 

but if they have made a levy then they legally on the day of the levy they must leave a notice of seizure of gods and inventory listing the goods levied

[wonkeydonkey]

If they make a levy on goods the value of those goods must cover removal and storage costs, auction fees and realise a substantial portion toward the debt.

If the goods seized cannot cover these fees then the levy and subsequent seizure and sale of them can be argued to have been made purely for the bailiffs financial gain...if you owed £250 they would need to remove goods that would realise a minimum £2,500 when sold at auction.

 

That you are paying this CT without fail yet still being harassed by bailiffs being greedy then in my opinion you should pay the Council direct and raise a formal complaint with the Council using the argument you have no confidence in their appointed agents methods of collection and every reason to suspect they are creating a scenario that cannot been seen to exist in order to apply illicit fees.

 

Have you followed the golden guide to getting this started...asked the Council:

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

and asked the bailiffs to provide a breakdown?

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

 

Until you get the facts you are not able to see the bigger picture...start with the above and paying the Council direct online, then you can tackle the bailiff misdeeds.

 

 

WD

[outlawla]

Can they levy without you being here, sounds a dumb question I know but one i had to ask

 

 

I would agree with hallowitch, but it could be worth getting hold of the bailiff's Code of Practice or contract between the council and bailiff firm, as I came across this:

 

 

South Oxfordshire District Council's Code of Practice

 

 

7.4 Distress cannot be levied unless the debtor (or other responsible person in respect of NNDR debts) is present on the premises.

 

[EDIT]

 

Just noticed this relates to NNDR (business rates). Don't know why though?

Edited June 20, 2012 by outlawla

[Matheos95]

Cant remeber now or not whether they did stick a siezure notice through my door (I havent opened the door to them so never spoke to them) but the only thing on the drive would be a car which is in my husbands name and on hire purchase so they cant touch that right?

[Milegurts]

As far as i know they should check for ownership and finance on any vehicle. If it belongs to a third party then they cannot take that. But i'm still pretty new to all of this

[brassnecked]

They may well have levied the car, and will argue that as it ia on the drive it is fairm game, and they will take it unless you prove they can't so be prepared for some paper tennis regarding the motor, if it has been seized, which of course once they are told of it's status, becomes an invalid levy, so associated fees must be removed.

[tomtubby]

It is vitally important to WRITE to the bailiff company ( any copy to the council) to make a complaint regarding the level of fees being charged by their agents.

 

A bailiff can charge a fee of £24.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made). Alternatively , if a levy is made, the bailiff can INSTEAD charge a levy fee. You need to state that it would seem that a levy was made on a vehicle but that "levy" was done without making any enquiries and that in fact, the vehicle is not yours and instead, is your partners and furthermore, is subject to finance. Provide some evidence and request that all fees associated with this levy are immediately REMOVED.

 

This same complaint was recently the subject of a highly critical report from the Local Government Ombudsman were the Ombudsman made it clear that a levy should NOT be made without first checking ownership and that if the car is not owned by the debtor that ALL FEES should be removed.

 

I would suggest that you also ask the council WHY they are permitting THEIR AGENT to charge a sum of £180 at an "initial" visit as such a fee is clearly an "attending to remove" fee which can ONLY be charged if a VALID PRIOR LEVY had been made on goods.

[Matheos95]

Wow you guys are brilliant, thanks for all the replies gonna get onto the council today.

[Matheos95]

Ok im going to send this to Bristow in response to their email do you think its ok?

 

Thank you for your reply I gave up work due to stress and what this was doing to my health. I do not claim benefits, I am being supported by my husband at the moment.

 

I have not refused to pay and have for the past 12 weeks paid £50.00 per week to clear this debt.

 

Details listed below:

 

Date Value Outstanding B&S ref

30/03/2012 50 1471653472 06/04/2012 50 1471661289 13/04/2012 50 1471666449 20/04/2012 50 1471674546 27/04/2012 50 1471679613 04/05/2012 50 1471688298 11/05/2012 50 1471694058 18/05/2012 50 1471699356 25/05/2012 50 1471708522 01/06/2012 50 1471713986 08/06/2012 50 1471720057 15/06/2012 50 1471724949

 

I feel the tactics being used by your company are nothing less than bullying someone who has paid regular payments for the last 12 weeks and would have continued to do so to clear the debt.

 

It would seem that a levy was made on a vehicle on our property but that levy was done without making any enquiries and that in fact, the vehicle is not mine and instead, is my partners and furthermore, is subject to finance.

 

I therefore request that all fees associated with this levy are immediately removed. I will today be lodging a formal complaint with Dudley Council and will commence payments with them directly tomorrow, the same day of the week I had sent through to you the last 12 payments.

 

Please find also enclosed a letter that will be sent to you recorded delivery tomorrow: Mrs Hxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxl xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx Bristow & Sutor Bartleet Road Washford Redditch B98 0FL 21st June 2012 Ref: XXXXXXXXX Dudley Council Ref: XXXXXXXX Dudley Council Ref: XXXXXXXX Dear Sir With reference to the above accounts, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes: a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee. b - the reason for the fee. c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged. d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at. e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information. I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully Mrs H xxxxxxx Any further dealings with your company will only be entered in to via written correspondence copies of which will be forwarded onto Dudley Council. Mrs Hxxxx xxxxxxxx

Edited June 21, 2012 by citizenB
spacing for easier reading

[Matheos95]

meh failing on the layout trying to fix :S

[citizenB]

meh failing on the layout trying to fix :S

 

 

I have popped some spacing in for you. Unable to sort out the formatting for you though.

[citizenB]

THe letter looks fine

[Matheos95]

Ok im going to send this to Bristow in response to their email do you think this is ok?

 

Thank you for your reply I gave up work due to stress and what this was doing to my health.

 

I do not claim benefits, I am being supported by my husband at the moment. I have not refused to pay and have for the past 12 weeks paid £50.00 per week to clear this debt. Detail listed below: (inserted here is 12 weekly payments with dates and their references).

 

I feel the tactics being used by your company are nothing less than bullying someone who has paid regualr payemtns for the last 12 week and would have continued to do so to clear the debt.

 

It would seem that a levy was mad on a vehicle on our proerty but that levy was done without making any enquiries and that in fact the vehicle is not registered to me and is in fact my husbands and furthermore is subject to finance.

 

I therefore request that all fees asocaited with this levy are immediatley removed.

 

I will today be lodging a formal complait with Dudley Council and will commence payments with them directly tomorrow, the same day of the week I had sent through to you the last 12 payments.

 

Please also find enclosed a letter that will be sent to you tomorrow recorded delivery. (inserted here is fee breakdown letter)

 

Any further dealings with your company will only be entered in to via written correspondance, copies of which will be forwarded onto Dudley Council. Yours xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Edited June 22, 2012 by citizenB
spacing for easier reading

[Matheos95]

Lol i dunno whats happening with the spacing, retyped it all but thanks you for coming back to me so quickly really appreciate it

[hallowitch]

letter looks fine if you can send a copy of HP agreement with the letter it will prove the car is on HP

 

and send a copy of the letter and the HP agreement to the council also

[citizenB]

Lol i dunno whats happening with the spacing, retyped it all but thanks you for coming back to me so quickly really appreciate it

 

Very odd.. are you using something other than a PC/Laptop to post up?

 

I have found that sometimes you need to put an extra carriage return for paragraphs..

[Matheos95]

Not quite sure what im doing wrong tbh will give it another go with an email I have just recieved.

[Matheos95]

Morning all, Quite a weird thing happened, I have the letter I enclosed above ready to go out today recorded delivery. Was going to send it as an email then thought better of it (or so I thought). I must have sent the email without realising it as I have just recieved this email from Bristow & Sutor

Dear Madam,

 

 

RE: Outstanding debt recoverable under the Non Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Local Lists) Regulations & outstanding Council Tax Arrears due to Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council

 

We write with reference to the above and further to your recent email.

 

Firstly we apologise if you feel that you have reason to complain, our intentions are not to cause upset. However as we explained in our previous email to you 20/06/12 the arrangement of £50.00 per week was temporary only, as you didn’t contact us once this had expired with a further offer of payment we had no choice but to cancel the expired arrangement and continue with recovery action.

 

We have attached statements of your accounts to enable you to view the charges that have been incurred.

 

We are unable to breakdown these charges any further and can confirm that they have been charged in accordance with schedule 5 of The council tax (administration & enforcement) regulations 1992 (as amended) and schedule 3 of The Non-Domestic Rating (Collection & Enforcement) (Local Lists) Regulations 1989. The bailiff information that you have requested is as follows:

 

Date & time attended: 02/02/2012 07:50 Bailiff name: Miss xxxx Court and date certificated: Worcester County Court 04/04/2011

 

Date & time attended: 06/02/2012 12:48 Bailiff name: Mr xxxxx Court and date certificated: Worcester County Court 22/02/2011

 

Date & time attended: 28/02/2012 07:54 Bailiff name: Missxxxx Court and date certificated: Worcester County Court 30/08/2011

 

Date & time attended: 09/03/2012 14:39 Bailiff name: Mrxxxx Court and date certificated: Worcester County Court 23/01/2012

 

Date & time attended: 30/03/2012 13:36 Bailiff name: Mr xxxxx Court and date certificated: Worcester County Court 04/04/2011

 

Date & time attended: 20/06/2012 11:20 Bailiff name: Mrxxxxx Court and date certificated: Worcester County Court 22/11/2010

 

Regarding your comments relating to the levied vehicle, we will now make enquires into the ownership of the vehicle. Should the third party claim be proven we will then be able to review the charges incurred for the levy.

 

Further to your comments we would suggest that you pay Bristow & Sutor directly as payments made to the council will not prevent further recovery action, unless we are otherwise instructed by our client.

 

With the above in mind we would also suggest that you make a further offer of repayment to our offices by the 29/06/12, as your current offer of £50.00 per week to clear the total balance of £2447.65 is not acceptable.

 

Failure to comply with the above may result in further recovery action being taken against you, this may incur additional costs of which you will be liable for.

 

We trust that this clarifies the situation.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Miss Nxxxx

 

Recovery Officer

 

Bristow & Sutor

The have also sent me account statements for the balances outstanding showing payments in and charges etc. There are 2 different accounts and the thing is I have made payments direct to the council this morning as I had stated in the email/letter. What do you suggest I do next?

 

I havent lodged the complaint with the council yet that was next on my list to do.

 

Thanks again for you help

 

(BTW regards the spacing issue im getting around it now by inserting manually the html break code, im on a normal desktop and never had this issue before, its weird. But least I can make it readable now.

Edited June 22, 2012 by seanamarts
names taken out

[seanamarts]

If the levy is invalid, which is very likely then all you owe is for two visits @ £42.50.

 

Why was the council tax in your name?

 

If you are no longer working in the business have you made enquiries to when the amount owed is for the time you were there. Is it for the correct amount?