Sigma SPV 1 (HSBC) v myself

[bh2362]

Hi BH

 

Here is the proposed defence that Marshmallow will be submitting, Im not sure if you have submitted yours yet.

 

 

 

"Part only of monies due under regulated Credit Agreement no. XX between HSBC and the defendant, the benefit of which was assigned to the claimant on 21/12/11.

 

The Agreement was terminated upon the defendant’s failure to comply with the terms of the agreement and or the statutory notice of default served by HSBC Bank plc.

 

The claimant seeks interest pursuant to section 69 of the CCA 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue continuing at the daily rate of 0.07"

 

DEFENCE

 

1. Paragraph 1 is nether admitted or denied with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') the Claimant has yet to disclose any Agreement. Furthermore any claim for partial monies is averred Contrary to s35 of the county court Act 1984 s35 Division of causes of action.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted with regards to termination of the alleged contractual Agreement , the Defendant has no knowledge, therefore the Claimant is placed to strict proof there of.

 

3. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks andy,

 

They have ignored my crp requests how does this come into play, do I mention this or get an order???

 

Kind regards

 

Bh

[AndyOrch]

The skill of drafting a defence in response is to refute what they state, that's all.Not what you have requested or what they have not responded to.The more detail the bigger the hole you dig.

You go into detail at the AQ and WS, post defence they can not respond or alter their response.Never draft a defence on none response, being unable to defend because of none compliance.

 

Andy

[bh2362]

thanks Andy,

i appreciate it i understand now, ill submit similar to marshmallows of thats ok and go from there.

 

thanks for the hand holding!

[bh2362]

defence submitted

[bh2362]

receieved a pack of old statements today from them, a different amount on the cover letter, saying they will request a stay if i enter into a payment plan.

only statements recieved.

no letter of assignment from HSBC

no agreement

no default notice.

 

what do i do next??

[sillygirl1]

Send a copy of their letter to the court and ask for a strike out as they are clearly using court as a first line means of debt collecting, this kind of behaviour is NOT on.

 

Explain that just because they have sent statements there is still not sufficient evidence that you actually need to pay them anything at all

[SkemDosser]

receieved a pack of old statements today from them, a different amount on the cover letter, saying they will request a stay if i enter into a payment plan.

only statements recieved.

no letter of assignment from HSBC

no agreement

no default notice.

 

what do i do next??

 

As I thought, these clowns have sweet FA in the way of kosher paperwork. Personally I would suggest you do as I intend to:

 

1] Tell HL to put their offer of a stay/repayment plan where the sun don't shine. They have offered nothing in way of proof you owe them any money, nor any proof they have a right to chase you for any money;

 

2] inform them that you intend to robustly defend this claim in front of a judge. Then offer them a chance to discontinue, telling them that if it proceeds further, they will be liable for extra costs; as Sillygirl says, think about being pro-active and applying for a strike out;

 

3] send a copy of the letter offering a stay on condition of a repayment plan to the court. They will not take kindly to this attempt to get you to admit to the debt outside of the court process. It will also bring to the courts attention the nature of these dodgy claims; to date, its highly unlikely they have gone anywhere near human eyes and these claims exist only in cyberspace for the moment- exactly where HL/sigma would like them to remain;

 

4] report HL and Rhona Lavender [who I assume signed off their claim on you like hundreds of others] to the Solicitors Regulatory Authority. Copy the claim form and the letter offering a stay on condition of a repayment plan to them with the complaint- they take a very dim view of solicitors trying on these part claims as it is an unethical abuse of process and the more the SRA is made aware of shysters like HL trying it on, the better.

 

Maintain the initiative and do not give any ground to the claimant. YOU are the empowered one here, and don't give up an inch of that empowerment up. YOU call the shots here as a defendant, not them. So go stick it to these comedians

Edited July 23, 2012 by SkemDosser

[bh2362]

As I thought, these clowns have sweet FA in the way of kosher paperwork. Personally I would suggest you do as I intend to:

 

1] Tell HL to put their offer of a stay/repayment plan where the sun don't shine. They have offered nothing in way of proof you owe them any money, nor any proof they have a right to chase you for any money;

 

2] inform them that you intend to robustly defend this claim in front of a judge. Then offer them a chance to discontinue, telling them that if it proceeds further, they will be liable for extra costs;

 

3] send a copy of the letter offering a stay on condition of a repayment plan to the court. They will not take kindly to this attempt to get you to admit to the debt outside of the court process. It will also bring to the courts attention the nature of these dodgy claims; to date, its highly unlikely they have gone anywhere near human eyes and these claims exist only in cyberspace for the moment- exactly whereHL?sigma would like them to stay;

 

4] report HL and Rhona Lavender [who I assume signed off their claim on you like hundreds of others] to the Solicitors Regulatory Authority. Copy the claim form and the letter offering a stay on condition of a repayment plan to them with the complaint- they take a very dim view of solicitors trying on these part claims as it is an unethical abuse of process and the more the SRA is madeaware of shysters like HL trying it on, the better.

 

Maintain the initiative and do not give any ground to the claimant. YOU are the empowered one here, and don't give up an inch of that empowerment up. YOU call the shots here as a defendant, not them. So go stick it to these comedians

 

Thanks skew,

I'll do what you said do I need to get this struck out as well, like an application to the court??

Or just send them letters??

Basically the amount in the form is for 299 and the letter they sent jumps up to 1400

With the offering a payment plan on this,

 

I had another fresh claim through the other day from rhona llavender for another debt again for 299.

CPR sent on that already

[sillygirl1]

Remember, HL (Ill) Legal's old mortgage market has now dried up so they are using their 'solicitor for rent' knowledge to 'broaden their client base'. and continue milking the consumer.

[SkemDosser]

Thanks skew,

I'll do what you said do I need to get this struck out as well, like an application to the court??

Or just send them letters??

Basically the amount in the form is for 299 and the letter they sent jumps up to 1400

With the offering a payment plan on this,

 

I had another fresh claim through the other day from rhona llavender for another debt again for 299.

CPR sent on that already

 

Personally I'd just write to them for the moment offering the opportunity to discontinue, seeing as you intend to reject their offer and defend. Keep the strike-out option [which involves a direct application to the court] up your sleeve at the moment....see what they come back with [if anything]. Sillygirl may think differently as she's my sort of pro-active girl lol

[cosalt]

...

Edited August 7, 2012 by cosalt
Wrong thread!

[bh2362]

hi guys,

 

I wrote to them, i got a reply im going to put it up shortly...need some advice!

[bh2362]

We confirm receipt of your correspondence dated ********, the contents of which have been noted.

As stated in our previous letter we are happy to come to a payment arrangement for the full balance above, if you are unable to settle the claim in full we are prepared to come to a suitable arrangement to repay via instalments.

However, should you feel you still wish to defend our Claim we will apply to the Courts to have the Claim adjusted to reflect the full balance minus the £364.99 which we have allowed to become stayed; leaving a balance to pay of £****.** plus appropriate fees and costs.

We have placed the account on a further 7 day hold to allow you time to consider all options.

If you wish to discuss this matter further please do not hesitate to contact us on 01527 586599.

Yours faithfully

 

 

please can someone advise, thanks

[bh2362]

help

[SkemDosser]

Interesting. As far as I know, they can't just 'apply' to the court for an adjustment of the claim amount, and the process to do so amounts to it having to go before a judge to sanction the change, which also costs a fee. I would have thought they'd realistically have to discontinue this claim and start with a new one which throws up all sorts of other procedual questions which I do not have the answers to at the moment:)) This is a new area for me,hopefully someone with more experience of this will be along shortly....

[bh2362]

Interesting. As far as I know, they can't just 'apply' to the court for an adjustment of the claim amount, and the process to do so amounts to it having to go before a judge to sanction the change, which also costs a fee. I would have thought they'd realistically have to discontinue this claim and start with a new one which throws up all sorts of other procedual questions which I do not have the answers to at the moment:)) This is a new area for me,hopefully someone with more experience of this will be along shortly....

 

 

Thanks Skem dosser, i really appreciate it, im hoping on this one.

[SkemDosser]

Nice to see a few guests dropping in, wonder if the lovely Rhona is one of them lol:clap2:

You know the more I think about this bh, the more I think it is one big bluff... I reckon you are entering the next round of brinkmanship. To pursue a whole claim is going to start costing them real money in fees... the process they have to go through to 'apply for an adjusted claim amount' would be interesting to find out more about. I suspect it's not that straightforward, serious research time methinks.

 

PS have you recieved any paperwork/documents from them at all yet?

[bh2362]

Nice to see a few guests dropping in, wonder if the lovely Rhona is one of them lol:clap2:

You know the more I think about this bh, the more I think it is one big bluff... I reckon you are entering the next round of brinkmanship. To pursue a whole claim is going to start costing them real money in fees... the process they have to go through to 'apply for an adjusted claim amount' would be interesting to find out more about. I suspect it's not that straightforward, serious research time methinks.

 

PS have you recieved any paperwork/documents from them at all yet?

 

hi yes,

 

that was the reply to my letter i posted up.

they have only sent me statements, no agreement, no default notice nothing.

[SkemDosser]

Sounds like they have less on you than many of the rest of us, which is saying something. I have a hunch this is getting into serious bluff territory, its going to be a test of who blinks first:) I'm going to sleep on this, prob speak tomorrow and hopefully someone with a bit more experience of this tactic will have dropped in by then.

[SkemDosser]

Hmm been thinking about this today, it's an interesting leftfield development. HL are obviously trying to be clever here, but I strongly suspect they may get themselves in an almighty mess over it if they're not careful As I said last night though, I'm increasingly convinced its a case of brinkmanship here.

 

This business about applying to the court for an adjustment of the amount due. That is not as easy as it sounds, because it would entail not just a 'minor' adjustment to the POC, but a complete re-writing of it [remember at the moment it is only for some plucked out of the air interest amount with no reference at all to a primary balance]. It means more than just changing a number on a form.

 

To my mind, that means a completely new claim has to be submitted. To do this, the original would have to withdrawn so far as I can tell [allowing for you to apply for costs from them seeing as you have submitted a defence]. So this new claim amount 'reduced by £364.99 to reflect the claim that has been stayed' is a real anomaly. They can't have two claims in for the same account at the same time as this falls foul of s35 of County Courts Act 1984 ['it shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bring two or more actions in one or more of the county courts'].

 

Courts also seem to take a very dim view of secondary actions on a claim, if they had to submit a new claim with a whole new POC for the same account [which IMO I can't see them being able to avoid]. CPR parts 1 and 7.3 requires the parties 'to bring before the court all issues that could be dealt with in one action.' The only grey area is whether this refers to a previous claim already adjucated on- which I assume means a judgement- but I would think to already have a stayed claim in, that at least is enough to cast a shadow over any new claim. So again, I would have thought it would be in their interests to discontinue the present one, and if they are really serious about pursuing you for the full amount, putting a new claim in for that. Which then beggars the question of course...well why didn't they do that in the first place?

 

So plenty to think about there and non of its gospel though because all of this is a new area for me too Considering all of this though, and it's [self-inflicted on HL's part] complexity, I'm more sure than ever that this is all bluff.

 

The bottom line to me, is that this current claim is pretty much invalid anyway. Not only does it fall foul of the County Courts Act 1984 s35 [Division of causes of action] but more importantly, the County Courts Order 1991 rule 2[3][a] which outlaws interest claims on any CCA regulated agreement.

 

So I think HL may well be getting themselves in a mess here, which on their performance to date isn't really a surprise.

Edited August 17, 2012 by SkemDosser

[hammyhound]

Just keeping an eye on this thread as it is ahead of mine.

 

HH

[hammyhound]

Personally, you have given them the opportunity to discontinue and they have threw their dummies out of the pram. Let them carry on and see if they proceed. At the moment they could only proceed on the original claim form, I cannot see a court letting them just change the amount (which basically that is what they are doing). My guess would be they would have to discontinue the present claim and start again paying more fees in the process and I am sure they would have to have your consent to do this, which I am sure you wont.

 

I am doing nothing with my claim as it looks like they will simply send the same letter.

 

Looking at all the threads, not one has to go the AQ stage, all have been stayed. That says something.

 

HH

[SkemDosser]

I agree completely Hammy. They can't just 'amend' the claim figure in this type of claim; it would need to be a whole new claim with a complertely revised POC which opens up a whole procedural [and costs] can of worms for HL.

 

Basically, if HL had been confident from the outset of getting the full balance, they would have gone for it from the outset. If an 'amended' claim got out of cyberspace and anywhere near an official human assessment of the case, the first question asked would be why did they not do so. HL knows this, hence the bluffing.

 

As you say, for us, the best strategy is to just sit back and keep it simple at the moment. Let HL complicate it and get themselves in a mess if they wish to do so. But the fact that the aq stage has not been reached by anyone yet, speaks volumes. Despite all the bluster and threats [which after all are the only real weapons dcas like HL have in these situations], defences won't be responded to and cases will drift into stays. It's where we go from there that most interests me now

[hammyhound]

I agree, no-one should do anything and let it ride for a couple of months. I am pretty sure though that if they wish to amend or discontinue the court would ask for a formal consent order to be signed and why should we do that.

 

I have until 23rd to respond to their "we will stay and you make the rest of the payment by instalments letter". BTW my amount is nearly £6!!

 

So for the time being I will sit back and watch other threads - I think it will be stablemate.

 

Not going to waste postage on a "discontinue letter".

 

Sorry just realised not in my own thread - too many threads going at once. Apologies to the original poster.

 

HH

[bh2362]

Thanks everyone, yes it is a right mess, I also have another claim going with the for m&s they done exactly the same sent a claim for 299.00.

It's been done on a mass scale to loads of individuals