Lloyds TSB Bank vs Me....County court claim

[sthurley]

Hi, Ive been frantically reading this site since my wife received a county court claim for her loan. I have logged onto the MCOL site and extended our time to 28 days. I then sent off my CPR 31.14 request to the solicitors and they have now sent back a letter saying

 

' Due to the amount of requests being made our clients have asked that an extension of 14days from the date of this letter is required to disclose the documents requested'

 

My 28 days is up on the 23rd May to enter my defence, has anyone got any ideas of what i should write for this?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[AndyOrch]

Hi contact the sol dealing with this and agree an extension pursuant to CPR 15.5 and ask for a letter of conformation.You need to inform the Court.Attach a copy of their conformation and then a cover letter from yourself advising that the parties have agreed extension pursuant to CPR 15.5 from the date of the claimants letter dated xxth xxx xxxx to xxth xxxx xxxxx xxxxx (28 days).

 

Regards

 

Andy

[sthurley]

Thanks Andy, so do I just quote CPR15.5 when asking them for a confirmation letter or is it a form I need to fill in?

 

One other question... The reason my wife and myself want to see these documents is for us to confirm they are all correct, if they supply the documents and we agree that they are correct what do we do in regards to the court and solicitor?

 

Thanks again.

 

 

Hi contact the sol dealing with this and agree an extension pursuant to CPR 15.5 and ask for a letter of conformation.You need to inform the Court.Attach a copy of their conformation and then a cover letter from yourself advising that the parties have agreed extension pursuant to CPR 15.5 from the date of the claimants letter dated xxth xxx xxxx to xxth xxxx xxxxx xxxxx (28 days).

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Yes you need a letter of conformation there is no particular forms. If after disclosure you decide to admit then you simply admit the claim.You have 33 days initially (5 deemed served so 28 14 to AoS ( Acknowledge service) no plea at this stage and then another 14 to submit a defence if that is your intention.With the CPR 15.5 you will have 56 days in all so that should be adequate to be able for them to disclose and you to determine your course of action.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mystery1]

You could phone the solicitors and ask for an extension and get email confirmation.

 

At the same time i'd ask when you are likely to get the requested documents.

 

Some great advice in the attachment legal issues-compilation.pdf

 

I'd advise an unless order if they keep dithering.

 

M1

[AndyOrch]

As time is up on the initial 28 days on the 23rd May then email would be appropriate.

[sthurley]

Hi, Thanks for advice so far. Its not me asking for the extension its the solicitor asking for 14 days extension, so do I still get them to send an email confirmation and I log both that and my confirmation email on the moneyclaim site before the 23rd May?

 

Thanks for helping out.

 

 

You could phone the solicitors and ask for an extension and get email confirmation.

 

At the same time i'd ask when you are likely to get the requested documents.

 

Some great advice in the attachment [ATTACH]35443[/ATTACH]

 

I'd advise an unless order if they keep dithering.

 

M1

[mystery1]

I'd still seek the 28 days extension so they don't get sneaky. The delay they are causing takes away time from you to file your defence. You might wish to check the POCs to see who signed the statement of truth and whether the make statements based on those documents and ask them how can x say y when you don't have the documents.

 

The unless order in the pdf i attached could come in very handy.

 

M1

[AndyOrch]

And applications for "unless orders " can backfire if Council instruct a Barrister to attend the hearing, you lose with costs for the day of 1K upwards.

[mystery1]

And applications for "unless orders " can backfire if Council instruct a Barrister to attend the hearing, you lose with costs for the day of 1K upwards.

 

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2007/642.html

 

" The only proper sanction for a claim improperly brought in the first place, is to strike it out."

 

"In my judgment, when regard is had to these authorities the key question must always be whether or not, at the time of issuing a Writ, the claimant was in a position properly to identify the essence of the tort or breach of contract complained of and if given appropriate time to marshall what it knew, to formulate Particulars of Claim. If the claimant was not in a position to do so, then the claimant could have no present intention of prosecuting proceedings, since it had no known basis for doing so. Whilst therefore the absence of present intention to prosecute proceedings is not enough to constitute an abuse of process, without the additional absence of known valid grounds for a claim, the latter carries with it, as a matter of necessity, the former. If a claimant cannot do that which is necessary to prosecute the claim by setting out the basis of it, even in a rudimentary way, a claimant has no business to issue a Claim Form at all "in the hope that something may turn up"."

 

"In my judgment therefore if Nomura , at the time of issuing its Claim Form, was not in a position to do the minimum necessary to set out the nature of the claim it was making, it would be seeking an illegitimate benefit, namely the prevention of further time running under the Limitation Acts for a claim which it could not properly identify or plead. That would be an abuse of the process of the court. Insofar as it sought to make any claim in contract, it would be necessary for it to be able to identify the particular contract and the alleged breach."

 

 

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/59.html

 

"If a party thinks it worthwhile to mention a document in his pleadings, witness statements or affidavits, I do not see why, subject as I say to the question of privilege, the court should put difficulties in the way of inspection. I look upon the mention of a document in pleadings etc as a form of disclosure. The document in question has not been disclosed by list, or at any rate not yet, but it has been disclosed by mention in what, for the purposes of litigation, is another important and formal category of documents. If so, then the party deploying that document by its mention should in principle be prepared to be required to permit its inspection, and the other party should be entitled to its inspection. What in such circumstances is the virtue of coyness?"

 

 

 

To my mind it is difficult to see why any Judge would not order disclosure. If the person signing the POCs, which are finished with a statement of truth, says the debtor has breached the terms of the agreement, how can a solicitor (it usually is if it's pursuit of a debt) make that statement, in all honesty, without sight of those terms ?

 

How can the unless order be argued against ?

 

M1

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

You won't have any difficulty getting them to give you an extension of time for filing your defence, especially if they have asked for an extension to reply to the Part 31 request. Just make sure you get their confirmation in written form - an email is fine. Whilst the rules do require you to notify the court of an agreed extension of time, no one ever really bothers so it's up to you whether you tell the court or not.

[mystery1]

Whilst the rules do require you to notify the court of an agreed extension of time, no one ever really bothers so it's up to you whether you tell the court or not.

 

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part15#IDAUXHCC

 

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

 

 

M1

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

That's what I said. The rules do require it, but no one ever bothers in reality.

[mystery1]

That's what I said. The rules do require it, but no one ever bothers in reality.

 

Should've gone to specsavers.

 

M1

[blondie 27]

i'm not sure what post it was but i do remember seeing **** dont use external emails!!

 

Did you call them?

[sthurley]

Hi,

 

Spoke to the solicitor on the phone this morning and your right they dont do external email, however she agreed over the phone and is sending out a letter to reach me by tomorrow. So IF I recieve this letter do I just scan it and attach it online with my letter? I only have till the 23rd May to do this so if I dont receive the letter what sort of defence should I post.

 

I did ask when Im likely to recieve the documents and she said she had sent them out on Friday and I should recieve them today?, should I post them up here for you guys to see if they have enough info and the correct documents?

 

Thanks for all the advice so far!

Sean

[AndyOrch]

On receipt of their conformation attach it to your covering letter requesting 28 days extension pursuant to CPR 15.5, you can email or fax to Northampton but mark it urgent as you are cutting this fine.Then ring Northampton and check they have it.

 

Andy

[sthurley]

OK guys,I received today the letter confirmation for an extension from the solicitor and also everything I requested from the CPR 31.14 this includes a copy of the signed agreement by my wife, a list of all payments and also the date the default notice date... so does this mean I dont have a leg to stand on?? I have to enter my defence by the 23rd ( tomorrow) so does that mean by tonight or have tomorrow to.... I can scan the extension letter and my agreement in the morning if that will help or should I not bother?

 

They have said on one letter they are still willing ot setup a monthly payment plan, will the court setup a fair payment plan based on my wifes income that they will have to agree to?

 

Thanks guys

[mystery1]

OK guys,I received today the letter confirmation for an extension from the solicitor

 

I have to enter my defence by the 23rd ( tomorrow) so does that mean by tonight or have tomorrow to.... I can scan the extension letter and my agreement in the morning if that will help or should I not bother?

 

You have an agreement to extend. You need to let the court know. This then gives you time to consider a defence or a a time to pay order etc

 

 

so does this mean I dont have a leg to stand on??

 

No idea, depends on what those documents contain. Are they compliant with the regs ? Is it the creditor who is suing etc etc

 

M1

[sthurley]

Thanks mystery1, so will tomorrow, the day I have to have submitted by be ok to enter the extension?

 

Im not sure of the regs, is it worth me scanning and posting all the docs up here for people to look at, feeling a little out of my depth now..

thanks

 

You have an agreement to extend. You need to let the court know. This then gives you time to consider a defence or a a time to pay order etc

 

 

 

 

No idea, depends on what those documents contain. Are they compliant with the regs ? Is it the creditor who is suing etc etc

 

M1

[mystery1]

Thanks mystery1, so will tomorrow, the day I have to have submitted by be ok to enter the extension?

 

 

 

It's not ideal but will be fine.Email followed by a phone call to confirm. They may spout some crap that it's nothing to do with them and it'll take x days to process etc but ultimately, i believe, you will have done all the CPRs required of you.

 

 

Im not sure of the regs, is it worth me scanning and posting all the docs up here for people to look at, feeling a little out of my depth now..

thanks

 

It might help you know if you could have a case but in reality if you don't know too much the courtroom is a dangerous step and ,without help, a step too far. I think you'd need a pro to represent you if you had a case given your lack of knowledge and willingness to concede when you aren't sure it's legally correct (as opposed to a sensible move).

 

M1

[AndyOrch]

I personally would not attempt to extend a day before a defence is due.Perhaps consider their offer of payment proposal if they agree to discontinue?

It would avoid a CCJ.

 

 

Andy

[blondie 27]

Any updates on this? have you drafted your defence yet?