Employer wants 3 years of salary back!!! - ** Case struck out **

[oldmanmille]

I need some serious help

 

I have just been sent a claims court letter stating that my ex employer wants every penny back he paid my wife for the past 3 years even though she had an employment contract, paid tax and NI and all above board. He even wants the company car benefits paid back to him and the neagtive equity on the car we left with him when both of us resigned.

 

Am i stupid in believing this is something he cannot win or is the law daft enough to let him?

[gordies]

can you let us know why the employer wants this back?

[Sidewinder]

Agreed. We need to know the Particulars Of Claim

[2ltr16valve]

This seems crazy lol

[oldmanmille]

OK here goes - I was employed on a contract running the company for him. I wasnt living in the area and worked from home for 3 weeks out of the month. Between us; the directors and me - we felt it better if i moved to the area. This meant my wife had to finish work so they gave her a contract and she just stayed at home but it meant we had the same overall income.

 

We moved up and all fine for 3 1/2 years. Then the owner starting dodgy stuff and I told him and we had words and in the end he suspended me. I stayed at home for 6 weeks and then dedcided to resign giving 3 mths notice. They sdaid they would take 1mth so that was fine and I did and left on 7th oct and went into a new job on 10th Oct. Just before I left i heard the newspapers were onto him about some fraudlent behaviour and I was interviewed by both paper and police about it all. He has been arrested and bailed and due in court this month. He thinks I have shopped him but i havent.

 

They have also sacked the finance direcrtor as he too didnt like what was going on. They also owe me about 70k in commission but only admit to 47k of which i have already had 23k of it before i left in carious guises.

 

my wifes salary is seperate from mine but could argue that is all mine i suppose but nonetheless can they take it? There is no mention in my contract or hers about company car etc so I am assuming they trying to say cos it aint in threre then they want it back and as my wife never came into work then they want that back..

 

My cynical mind is saying they trying to wind me up as they know I am a votaile person with no fuse whatsoever but i am not sinking to those depths and ending up in prison for GBH...I want to do it all legally!

[gordies]

so, the wife had a signed employment contract and terms and conditions?

 

it sounds like they are on a major wind up in the hope you lash out and do not defend their claim for some reason.

 

is it possible to scan in the court letter (covering personal info of course) or typing up the exact wording of the claim?

[oldmanmille]

Yes, signed contract with T&C's and paid for 3 years with no issues. All tax and NI paid and company car declared on P11d's.

 

Attached 3 pages from their submittal to court.

 

Thanks for everyone's reviews.

[oldmanmille]

Yes, signed contract with T&C's and paid for 3 years with no issues. All tax and NI paid and company declared on P11d's.

 

Attached 3 pages from their submittal to court.

 

Thanks for everyone's reviews.

[oldmanmille]

Missed off the court letter...

[Sidewinder]

Thread moved to the Employment Forum

[Sidewinder]

Sadly the images are too small to read. Any chance of getting them larger. Use Photobucket or upload as PDFs?

 

Best edit out the case number too if possible.

[andydd]

Sounds intruiging but we need to see the actual (non tiny) docs .

 

Andy

[oldmanmille]

Unfortunaetly it wont let me attach as photobucket links as I need 10 posts!

[andydd]

As PDF's. You should be able to scan to PDF or there are lots of virtual pdf 'printers' out there they can turn docs into pdf's.

 

Andy

[Sidewinder]

First of all you need to acknowledge service of the claim and indicate your intent to defend the claim in full.

 

Insofar as the defence is concerned you need to respond directly to the POCs in that the claim has no merit, the POCs are insufficiently detailed to provide any cause of action. The claimant alleges that money has been unlawfully and illegally taken, yet no such suggestion has been made by the claimant previously, nor has there been any police investigation into any 'theft' alleged by the claimant. You and your wife were employed under a contract of employment for which an agreed remuneration was paid, including the use of a company vehicle and you have received no more than was agreed by contract in return for the services provided.

 

Even though this case appears to have no merit and appears to be malicious and even vexatious, I would strongly recommend that you take legal advice in view of the amount involved.

[stu007]

Hi

 

This is shocking especially your POC they are saying "We are claiming for recoveries of money unlawfully and illegally taken from the company while employees of the company, which led to their employment being terminated on 7th October 2011".

 

It may just be me but if it is as serious as the POC makes out then:

 

1. Why has the Employer not called in the Police to investigate this?

2. Why has they Employer filed the Claim Online?

3. Has the Employer informed HMRC of this? (as per POC as it involves NI Contributions is the Employer not obligated to inform HMRC of this as would this not be classed as fraud)

 

I may be wrong but this Employer is basically accusing you of theft and that was the reason your employment was terminated.

Edited May 6, 2012 by stu007

[oldmanmille]

Thank you both for your comments and advice. I will respond to the claim. One thing I forgot to mention is that both of us resigned. I resigned on 22nd September and left their employ on 7th october and my wife resigned on 5th October and was supposed to leave their employ on 31st December but they stopped paying her after 1mth saying that her salary was part of my commission!

 

I personally think they are trying to intimidate me bbecause of the MD's pending court case plus all the information i have about what has gone on in 3 1/2 years (although I have not used that information nor was intending to - that may change).

 

It saddens me that I gave 3 1/2 loyal years and brought in so much business that kept them aflioat and this is how they treat us. Thanks again and I will update as we go along....great forum by the way!

[oldmanmille]

Oh, just one more question please - now the claim has been defended by me what happens next with the on-line claim? Does a judge sit and reveiw and decide to go ahead or not or do I now go to court?

[LaughingGirl]

I know Cag can move mountains, but for this kind of money I'd be sorely tempted to get professional advice on this one. On the face of it, the claim is completely ludicrous and I can't imagine a judge taking it seriously, but when the money you're talking about equates to some folk's mortgage it's probably worth playing safe.

 

I'll be fascinated to see how this pans out, and I wish you the best of luck. It must be a real worry for you and your family.

[andydd]

I agree with most of the comments above, as the amount is so high it should involve some soprt of professional representation, dont forget that the claim would be on the multi track which would allow costs (which could be significant) to be recovered.

 

Its true that as it stands the POC contains no justification or explanation of their claim, It may be worth looking at the provisions of CPR 24 (Summary Judgment) and CPR 3.4 (Strike Out of Claims), these provisions allow claims that have no merit to be struck out at an early stage before either parties spend anymore on costs, although as the amount is so high you would be wise to seek further advice.

 

I cant really for the life of me see how they could possibly explain that they have paid n3 years wages but want it all back, the only claim I can think of is that you somehow did zero work for those three years (i.e you hid under a table or something).

 

Andy

[andydd]

Oh, just one more question please - now the claim has been defended by me what happens next with the on-line claim? Does a judge sit and reveiw and decide to go ahead or not or do I now go to court?

 

Have you sent an acknowldgment or full defence.

 

The next step should be 'allocation', AQ's will be sent to both parties, however as I suggested..you should give some thought to using Summary Judgment (CPR 24) or Strike Out (CPR 3.4) so maybe the claim can be dismissed before allocation. (The rules on this do say that SJ/SO applications should be as early as poss). However DO get further professional advice.

 

Given the strange nature of this it may well be that the judge will want some kind of case management/direction/allocation hearing so he can try and work out whats going on, and perhaps (if hes generous) give a hint to the claimant that his claim may fail.

 

Andy

[numbers666]

Hi,

 

Please consider Professional Advice the amount is certainly large and Multi-track allocation. Me being me would take a walk with the docs to the local nick, and say you want to be questioned on the alleged theft which you are sure they would be aware of.... you are innocent so nothing to lose. The old bill with either laugh at you, or interview you. The police will then investigate the claim....and cause more ***t for the MD, certainly the DJ will love to hear how the particulars have no truth per the old bill investigation - but of course this is what i would do

 

I suggest a 24 or 3.4 per andy above may be a better legal avenue.

 

Following this with interest, good luck - see a solicitor asap....

 

Oh maybe a counter claim for the monies owed to you as they are listed on the POC / schedule !

 

N

[oldmanmille]

Thanks guys...Firstly yes, i have filed a defence. I am going to contact a solicitor on Tuesday and I see the cooperative have a no win no fee for employment law matters so going to see what they can provide. I will also look at a 24 and/or a 3.4 per Andy's advice.

 

The stress is taking its toll but we will get through it somehow....

 

thanks again for all relies and advice, very much appreciated...

[Gbarbm]

Hi

Can't help with the legal stuff, but see you have plenty of the guys on here to give you sound advice on that

My input is really to make sure you've got documentary evidence to assist your case;

Do you and your wife have a contract, written agreement or particulars of engagement in respect of thus employer?

Do you and your wife have P60 certificates and P11D forms for the last three years

Do you have any form P2 (notice of coding) from HMRC

Do you and your wife have payslips in respect of this employer

Was your salary/commission paid by BACS, CHAPS or cheque and do you have evidence of the payments by way of your bank/building society account.

[oldmanmille]

Hi

Can't help with the legal stuff, but see you have plenty of the guys on here to give you sound advice on that

My input is really to make sure you've got documentary evidence to assist your case;

Do you and your wife have a contract, written agreement or particulars of engagement in respect of thus employer?

Do you and your wife have P60 certificates and P11D forms for the last three years

Do you have any form P2 (notice of coding) from HMRC

Do you and your wife have payslips in respect of this employer

Was your salary/commission paid by BACS, CHAPS or cheque and do you have evidence of the payments by way of your bank/building society account.

 

Yes to all of the above - thanks for the list as I am sure I would have neglected to dig all this out - whereever I have field it

 

Feeling a lot better today after all your comments on this forum so thank you for making me feel more relaxed and confident. Will see what transpires now as we have daughters wedding in a few weeks and trying not to allow it to affect that!