Ebay buyer wants a refund, I don't control vodafone network!!!

[dorishaslop]

Hi guys, (and gals), I sold a mobile phone on Ebay this week, I took careful pictures to show it was in excellent condition,

The buyer has emailed me to say he wants a refund as the phone has told him once or twice that when he is trying to download stuff there is a network error, Surely that is to do with Vodafone and not me, he also claims that it has "frozen" on him once or twice. and that there is a dent/chip on the top corner, which there definately was NOT when I sent it to him. I wrapped it well, insured it and sent it to him special delivery. The phone was almost new and I sent everything that it came with including the manual and original box. Is there any way I can stop paypal from taking the money to refund him, I havent contacted him back yet as I want the money in my bank first. This Ebay lark sucks!!!

[Conniff]

If they take it from debit card or bank, cancel. If they take it from held funds, withdraw them and then close the means of them getting money.

 

Mobile phones and laptop computers are the two dodgiest things bought and sold on ebay and the items that cause the most complaints.

 

PS I would say it is from your card as that is how most people sign up to paypal. If you have a couple of weeks, you can inform your bank that your card has been lost or stolen and it will be cancelled and a new one issued.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Conniff

[dorishaslop]

Thanks for the advice,, I think they will take it from my bank account as that is where the funds come from, It's a pain having to cancel as all my other direct debits come from there too, I am also going away for a fortnight next tuesday, which is why I needed the money for the phone.. If I asked the bank to not pay paypal would that work or are they obliged to pay out

[MegaCraggy]

are they not meant to send the phone back to you recorded delivery before they issue a refund, have they opened a dispute with ebay or paypal regarding the phone.

i always mark my stuff i sell with a uv pen and take records of serial numbers and anything that can refute them sending back a different item.

[dorishaslop]

So far he has not opened a dispute as I have not contacted him back yet, He has stated that he will return the phone to me when his money is returned to him. I have just been to the bank and they have told me that paypal have every right to take the money back for him.

I wish I hadn't been so stupid now, I never thought that I would be ripped off as I have always had good issues with buying and selling on Ebay, this has opened my eyes. I have also had a look at his feedback and can see that he has bought and sold mobiles before. what a sucker I have been, this has truly ruined my week. I ws so looking forward to going away for a nice break in the sun, that's ruined now. I have read on this site that Ebay always finds in the buyers favour.

[Conniff]

If you do online banking, just go in and cancel the paypal one, it won't affect any of the others, if you don't on line bank then take a letter into the bank asking them to cancel that direct debit, again, it won't affect any other dd or so.

 

To put this in laymans terms - the bank knows sod all and that is just some clerks opinion.

 

A written order to the bank 'has' to be obeyed, they cannot go against it. Close the paypal direct debit.

 

He will return when he is refunded! - it could well be genuine, but that is how most ebay scams are run - I did return it so not my problem, yea, heard that one before.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Conniff

[dorishaslop]

Hi Conniff, I don't do paypal by direct debit, so I guess they must be taking it from my debit card. is there any way that I can check?? I don't want to be too rash as the money for the phone hasn't reached my bank account yet, although on the paypal site is says the withdrawal is completed. My other half has advised me to write a pleasant email to the buyer advising him that I am taking legal advice over the matter, in the hope that he backs down. is this wise or should I just carry on ignoring him and see what happens.? thanks againfor your advice

[Conniff]

Paypal is always on the side of the buyer even when they are the one in the wrong, the internet if full of these stories, so firstly you should stop paypal being able to withdraw any funds.

You bank statement should show what method is used to withdraw from you, if you still can't work that out, then go into the bank on Monday as ask them.

 

How long before you go on holiday?

[assisted blonde]

Can you just close your paypal account?

[Conniff]

I thought of that, but it would still put the account under the control of Paypal.

[dorishaslop]

I have just spoken to the helpline for my bank and they have advised me that if I cancel my card then yes paypal cannot take the money but I would be in serious breach of some agreement that I signed when opening the paypal account. I don't want to get into any more trouble than I am already in, (for those of you who are familiar with me)

 

I have found the details of the handset with the imei number.

 

The chap at the bank said that as I insured the phone with the post office I should raise a claim with them.

 

Conniff, I go on holiday on the 24th of this month. Tuesday week.

 

should I ask the buyer to take a detailed photo of the alleged damage/chip/dent or whatever he is claiming?

don't really know what that would do..

[2ltr16valve]

Just report your card as lost/stolen, you can not find it can you... can you As for the agreements with paypal, forget about being loyal they will shaft you at each and every opportunity.

 

Do the above asap, and then discuss with the buyer.

[dorishaslop]

thanks for that, should I wait till the funds have cleared in my account. I am hoping that the buyer is thinking that I don't look at my pc over the weekend. should I also close my Ebay account too just in case??

[dorishaslop]

If I just close and delete both Ebay and paypal accounts would that stop them being able to take money from my bank or can they over-ride the closures.

[andydd]

You can remove cards and accounts from ebay/paypal but possibly not once a dispute starts, it is also possible to *cough* lose your debit card and cancel it. I have had to resort to this method. I also believe that you can tell your bank not to pay a certyain individual should they try and take money.

 

Andy

[ashmk]

Cancel the card or Paypal will take it.

 

There is no other way.

 

Withdraw some cash to tide you over untill it's replaced then cancel the card as lost. (Remember you lost it sometime after you withdrew cash)

 

Selling mobiles, laptops or anything of high value is a very bad idea on ebay. It's full of fraudsters who will claim lost/damaged/not as described etc so they can keep the item (send back an empty box) and get their money back.

 

Ebay should be ashamed, they know fraud is rife but still tell people it's safe. EBAY IS NOT SAFE! In fact I cannot think of a place to sell stuff that is less safe.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

I wish I were at good at predicting the future as people on this thread are, I'd get the jackpot every Saturday.

 

Firstly - anything electronic can sulk after being used as a football by the Royal Mail. Network error can be a wifi problem - and therefore a feature of the phone, I remember the ipad getting slated for it when it came out (I know it is not a phone, but same sort of thing).

 

The chip on the phone could equally have happened in transit, a charger is very good at damaging anything if it is not thoroughly wrapped.

 

How do people here know that the buyer is about to send a different phone, or an empty box? I have been on ebay for 10 years now, and never had such a thing happen. If it did happen, then ebay have rules for dealing with it - usually it means that they fund the buyers refund, as they have no way of knowing who is at fault.

 

 

Paypal will refund the buyer if they find SNAD. Paypal will instruct debt collectors to chase the debt to them. They will also stop you being able to buy or sell on ebay until the debt is settled.

[Conniff]

I don't believe anyone has said the buyer 'is' going to return a different phone. The fact remains that phones and laptops are the biggest source of fraud on ebay with more buyers 'and' sellers being conned with these two product than any other.

 

ebay nor paypal investigates when something has gone wrong, they just side with the buyer in 99% of the cases and demand that wehat they say is law.

 

Who cares about an ebay or paypal account, they can always open another one later.

 

If you've read around this forum you will also realise that debt collectors are completely powerless.

[transient]

Do not know why you are asking your bank to advise they are unqualified to and have advised you incorrectly on 2 occasions from what you have said in your posts

 

 

Just do as you have been advised above, in simple terms

 

1. Withdraw all money in paypal back to your card

2. Remove all cards associated with your paypal account

3. Remove any DD associated with your account

 

This way you have the money and it cannot be taken back.

 

The concerning thing is he has aksed you to send the money back and then he will send the device, he is covered by ebay so he should send first as if the device is say lost or you receive it but don't refund he can open a dispute and will be refunded anyway so he will not lose out. If you refund now you are at risk of losing out (know this is not what you want but just making you aware). If he has an issue and wants a refund he should lodge a dispute with paypal rather than ebay as it is reolved quicker and a hold placed on any funds to that value in your account. Sounds to me like he is trying to [problem] you by asking you to refund first.

 

Anyway if you do cancel your cards etc and he raises a dispute he will be refunded and you will get emails from paypal\ebay asking you to put your paypal acct back to a positive amount as it will be in a minus value after their refund to him. They will then send notice before action and may instruct a collection agency for the value of the refund.

 

One great bit of advise mentioned above is to UV these sort of items and take photos before sending as well as all IMEI and serials etc

 

I work in IT and from what you said it does not sound like you issue but the carriers\phone operating system.

 

Good luck

[andydd]

I wish I were at good at predicting the future as people on this thread are, I'd get the jackpot every Saturday.

 

Firstly - anything electronic can sulk after being used as a football by the Royal Mail. Network error can be a wifi problem - and therefore a feature of the phone, I remember the ipad getting slated for it when it came out (I know it is not a phone, but same sort of thing).

 

The chip on the phone could equally have happened in transit, a charger is very good at damaging anything if it is not thoroughly wrapped.

 

How do people here know that the buyer is about to send a different phone, or an empty box? I have been on ebay for 10 years now, and never had such a thing happen. If it did happen, then ebay have rules for dealing with it - usually it means that they fund the buyers refund, as they have no way of knowing who is at fault.

 

 

Paypal will refund the buyer if they find SNAD. Paypal will instruct debt collectors to chase the debt to them. They will also stop you being able to buy or sell on ebay until the debt is settled.

 

Well you are very lucky if you have not had a problem with ebay/paypal, even looking at recent posts there are many people who have (and mostly involving phones/laptops/tablets)

 

It is almost universally agreed thaty the SNAD process is not run fairly and that Ebay do favour the seller, it woulkd appear in this situation that it is NOT a valid SNAd claim but lets see how ebay/paypal decide.

 

Its irrelevanmt if Paypal instruct DCA's because they have no powers and all they will do is send a couple of letters and then give up, Imsuspect they dont start legal action because a )Its prob not costs effective and b) Its not certain that Ebay/Paypal T & C's actually comply with UK Law (In fact some people have taken them to court and won especially involving their dubious tactis of freezing accounts, etc).

 

Yep, your account will be unusable but many (including me) find the only solution is to open another account or just give up using Ebay altogether.

 

Andy

[transient]

Spot on andydd

[dorishaslop]

Thanks for the advice all, you've been very helpful as usual. Im very grateful. I am very tempted to take the advice of cancelling my card and instructing the bank to stop payments to ebay and pp. However, I am due to be away from home from the 24th and if I don't have a new account etc sorted by then, my direct debits in and out of my acount will be messed up and I will be in even bigger pooh. so I guess my only viable option is to politely ask the buyer to return my phone via special (insured) delivery as I used to send to him and just hope that everything is Kosher when it arrives.

[andydd]

What direct debits in and out ?. They only ones 'in' are the fees, they will tell you when they need paying but you can pay them manually, you dont NEED a DD setup to pay them.

[transient]

As andy has said there is no need for a new bank account nothing is going to affect your bank account or other direct debits as I said above

 

1. Withdraw the money from paypal

2. When you get the email saying it has been processed then log in and remove the card from your paypal account

3. check that you do not have your bank account associated with paypal for the purpose of direct debit if so remove it and call your banl to cencel the direct debit or cancel it via online banking

 

That's it

[MegaCraggy]

i can tell you now if he has not opened a dispute with ebay or paypal the chances are he is trying to pull a fast one, never ever issue a refund until you have the phone back. ebay and paypal will tell him to return the phone recorded delivery, thats a fact, they will tell him to return it, they won't just take money out of your account until it is proven that it has been returned signed for. if he has not opened a dispute ignore him tilll either ebay or paypal contact you. ask on the ebay forum, they will tell you the same.