Bang -v- Barclaycard

[Bang!]

NEW THREAD started to avoid hijack.

 

Originally posted here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?344276-Barclaycard-wriggling-out&p=3775590&viewfull=1#post3775590

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Adding to the original question...

 

If a debt became statute barred after 5 years in Scotland (and presumably had been sold on). Would it be possible to claim back charges from the lender, for a debt that was SB and presumably died in the hands of a DCA? This would appear to create a one year holiday where charges could be recovered, but the original endebtedness was no longer enforceable in court.

 

In these circumstances, would the original lender not just buy back the debt from the DCA to avoid making a refund of charges?

Edited March 31, 2012 by slick132

[dx100uk]

Adding to the original question...

 

If a debt became statute barred after 5 years in Scotland (and presumably had been sold on). Would it be possible to claim back charges from the lender, for a debt that was SB and presumably died in the hands of a DCA? This would appear to create a one year holiday where charges could be recovered, but the original endebtedness was no longer enforceable in court.

 

In these circumstances, would the original lender not just buy back the debt from the DCA to avoid making a refund of charges?

 

think it matters little in real terms

 

people have won against BC for charges outside of 6yrs.

 

dx

[Bang!]

That's interesting to hear, as I had a dispute going back to the late 90s with money being paid from my account after I stopped payment to an internet company.

 

The dispute ran for years and I was unable to resolve things before leaving the UK. The bank were massively unhelpful, refusing to offer old accounts "as they are held on microfiche and not covered by a DPA request".

 

By then there was a fortune in charges - which all along I had told them I would never pay.

 

Despite there being a negative balance, which I added to to cover my inconvenience/expenses prior to leaving, would it make sense for me to chase them for these old fees now if the alleged SB debt had been sold on?

 

I never really thought much about it - other than feeling I had got one up on the bank for mucking me about for years. However, the charges would be well into 4 figures, and its likely I have the statements in a box somewhere.

[citizenB]

That's interesting to hear, as I had a dispute going back to the late 90s with money being paid from my account after I stopped payment to an internet company.

 

The dispute ran for years and I was unable to resolve things before leaving the UK. The bank were massively unhelpful, refusing to offer old accounts "as they are held on microfiche and not covered by a DPA request".

 

By then there was a fortune in charges - which all along I had told them I would never pay.

 

Despite there being a negative balance, which I added to to cover my inconvenience/expenses prior to leaving, would it make sense for me to chase them for these old fees now if the alleged SB debt had been sold on?

 

I never really thought much about it - other than feeling I had got one up on the bank for mucking me about for years. However, the charges would be well into 4 figures, and its likely I have the statements in a box somewhere.

 

 

tsk, tsk.. have a read of the first post in the thread linked below...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?50148-Barclaycard-amp-Microfiche-they-are-wrong-OFFICIAL

 

 

B/shark are telling fibs when they say that Microfiche is "not a filing system" it is and they were told this back in 2006 !!

[slick132]

Hi Bang,

 

Your posts and replies have been moved into a new thread to avoid hijack of SuzieD's thread.

 

If you have all the older charges data available on old statements, you could consider reclaiming them. With Compound Interest in Restitution, the interest on charges back to the late @90's could be very significant.

 

To see what figures are involved, you should find the charges data and put it in a compound interest spreadsheet using 24.9% as your interest rate. Use this spready - http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/interestcalcs.xls

 

Let us know approx what the charges add up to, what the interest comes to on top and how these figures compare with the last known a/c balance that you knew of.

 

[Bang!]

Correct me if I am wrong on this - but it also seems after a debt has become statue barred, you can then reclaim PPI or charges, and these will be due to you, as the original debt is now irrelevant.

[dx100uk]

yep

 

you'll have a job getting the chargs though unless the oc is rather dumb!

 

dx

[Bang!]

Off the top of my head I cannot remember the criteria - but the charges fell outwith the normal provisions of being statute barred, and so remained claimable.

 

I am about to try this once I find the paperwork - as I had a "debt" that was almost entirely charges after a dispute that ran for years with the bank.

 

I am just beginning to piece together what happened, as I left the UK prior to managing to resolve things (it having run for perhaps 5 or 6 years). But its looking like after I left I was defaulted on both bank and credit card, but they seem to have continued paying their own card after that for a considerable time - presumably to extend the time before it became statue barred.

 

I should know entirely in a month or two and can chase it once sure its barred.

 

Any tips?

[Bang!]

Two questions...

 

1. For concealment - would a bank failing to issue accounts based on their being held on microfiche rather than on computer (as a means of circumventing a SAR) constitute concealment?

 

2. If an event is ongoing, then the parts of that event that would be SBed on their own, are acceptable to include with and up to the most recent date of what is being claimed as they were all part of an ongoing disputed.

 

So basically - as in most cases after you walk away and stop paying your bank, they will continue to levy fees. Accordingly their claim against you will become SBed, a fair bit of time before your claim against them.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Bang!

[MARTIN3030]

Off the top of my head I cannot remember the criteria - but the charges fell outwith the normal provisions of being statute barred, and so remained claimable.

 

I am about to try this once I find the paperwork - as I had a "debt" that was almost entirely charges after a dispute that ran for years with the bank.

 

I am just beginning to piece together what happened, as I left the UK prior to managing to resolve things (it having run for perhaps 5 or 6 years). But its looking like after I left I was defaulted on both bank and credit card, but they seem to have continued paying their own card after that for a considerable time - presumably to extend the time before it became statue barred.

 

I should know entirely in a month or two and can chase it once sure its barred.

 

Any tips?

 

Check your credit files.

If you are reasonably sure on what you say about continual payments,then a full DSAR should give you all you need,and add the cost of that to reclaim the charges.

[slick132]

Hi Bang,

 

1. "......failing to issue accounts......" I assume you mean statements or a/c data. The SAR is a request for data and not for copy statements. As long as they supply the data to you in a manner you can understand, they've complied.

 

If they fail to supply data beyond 6 years and you think it's available in any format, you can seek this using the courts - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters

 

Concealment doesn't really come into it. Failure to provide data required by an SAR is a Data Protection issue.

 

2. Not sure what you mean to say here. However, if you want to reclaim charges beyond 6 years and you have the data available to quantify the older charges, you can do so using s.32(1)© Limitation Act 1980. Case law for this is Kleinwort Benson -v- Lincoln City Council.

 

[slick132]

Hi Bang,

 

I've moved your above post and my reply to your existing thread. Please use this to ask questions.

 

Otherwise you hijack other threads and your posts are dotted across the forums.

 

Thanks

[Bang!]

How could they pay their own card? Were they taking the money out of your bank account and making you become overdrawn...and thereby incurring charges? If so, that's unfair treatment definitely....

 

Gem

 

That was it exactly. I have the paperwork somewhere and am just starting to get it all sorted out. But will not be back in the UK full time until summer.

 

To add insult to injury, the payment was made was always late, so a fee was paid for going further overdrawn, and a further late fee to the credit card. I think it was about £48 a time when the two were combined.

 

I knew before it had been heading this way, as they had failed to make transfers on telephone banking when it would create other charges, and were declining to issue account details via a SAR "as your records are held on microfiche".

 

What I never told them was I was planning to sort their mess prior to my leaving the UK, they never knew I was leaving, and only saw me trying to fix their crookedness. They saw a good salary going in - but any relationship between us had broken down entirely. The majority of the debt was from their paying out money to an ISP in the 90s who kept managing to restart a cancelled DD. It was even running twice at some stages.

 

So I left them with their debt, and took a "fee" for my troubles when I left - as my accounts were still in good standing meaning a good margin under my limits was available to compensate for my troubles. I never emptied everything, I just felt they owed me about 5K for the bother and stress over the years.

 

When I get the paperwork together to show the dates of last payments for certain, I will then obtain CCA/SAR/CRA. The credit card was probably from the early 90s, so I suspect it might take a long time for them to look. The bank account will already be SB - but their continuing payments to the CC just came to light - and I need to find the statement showing the last payment, or rather the first not showing a payment.

 

They knew themselves they were at it, as they were offering a 25% reduction on the bank account, and a 75% reduction on the card in just over a year. Mail went to a mailbox - calls went to a number diverting to email. So its still all there somewhere.

[Bang!]

Check your credit files.

If you are reasonably sure on what you say about continual payments,then a full DSAR should give you all you need,and add the cost of that to reclaim the charges.

 

I will be 100% sure soon. Although am not back in the UK entirely yet.

 

I also have no plans to ask for CCA/CRA/SAR until I can find the statements showing the last CC payment - although the bank account will be SB already.

 

Actually, it may not be, as a payment was made to the bank account as a refund from a utilities company for about ?£500?. They were meant to pay it to one of my other accounts, but ignored my instruction.

 

This raises two questions...

 

1. Would that count as a payment from me to my bank? I know the date it went through give or take a few days, and its still under 5 years.

 

2. Should I chase the utility company for making the payment to the wrong account? If this came back and was repaid correctly - the bank account would be SB already.

[Bang!]

Sorry - I just posted a couple of posts in another thread about this too.

 

I was aware that SAR covered microfiche - but it was probably 2004 when I first contacted Wilmslow and they were entirely clueless. Basically, the bank had not wanted to show it had paid out to an ISP long after I had had the agreement ended as the ISP were unable to provide the service they claimed.

 

This was quite common then - as it happened with Freeserve and Force-9 (now BT (spitting noise)).

 

Additionally, there would be no interest charges until later, as the account was not overdrawn, although had an OD facility, and the card was cleared each month.

 

It was only after they became really annoying I transferred the mispayment to the credit card and told them it was their problem, as I had no plan to pay charges/interest/incorrect payments.

 

Once I have the paperwork together, I would like to have a go at them largely from a revenge perspective. I figure if its OK for them to letter me at people with a similar name's addresses - which basically meant they were mailing my family (presumably amongst others) - as my name is foreign and distinctive, so there are not that many of us about.

 

I feel I am entitled to have a laugh - as if they saw any act towards me as being acceptable, then they can hardly complain if I opt to do the same back. They called me about 150 times, all are recorded as it went to email. So I feel this is their saying its acceptable to call that often, and I took the liberty of obtaining the directors' home numbers to check this theory if need be.

 

Its an interesting precedent, as if harassment then they owe me more, if not then its acceptable for other people having problems ignored to call the directors 150 times each.

[slick132]

Hi Bang,

 

Can you confirm are you talking here about a possible fraud or payment made in error from your a/c in 2004.

 

When were the last letters or emails about this matter exchanged about this.

 

[Bang!]

Hi Bang,

 

1. "......failing to issue accounts......" I assume you mean statements or a/c data. The SAR is a request for data and not for copy statements. As long as they supply the data to you in a manner you can understand, they've complied.

 

If they fail to supply data beyond 6 years and you think it's available in any format, you can seek this using the courts - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters

 

Concealment doesn't really come into it. Failure to provide data required by an SAR is a Data Protection issue.

 

2. Not sure what you mean to say here. However, if you want to reclaim charges beyond 6 years and you have the data available to quantify the older charges, you can do so using s.32(1)© Limitation Act 1980. Case law for this is Kleinwort Benson -v- Lincoln City Council.

 

 

Thanks - I never submitted a SAR - but had told them I was planning to do so. They had replied the records were held on microfiche and not a computer and so were exempt. At the time on the internet there were many other examples of this happening at the same time too.

 

I suspect it was 2004/5/6 by that point.

[Bang!]

Hi Bang,

 

Can you confirm are you talking here about a possible fraud or payment made in error from your a/c in 2004.

 

When were the last letters or emails about this matter exchanged about this.

 

 

I am sure it was error but the ISP could basically do as they pleased with my account. It actually started back in ?1999? but I had been unable to get anywhere with Barclays trying to resolve it other than repaying a couple of payments as the ISP had been unable to provide the service they claimed.

 

It going back to the days of expensive internet - and services that did not work properly long before broadband.

 

1. They could not provide the service they claimed.

2. Their charging was massively erratic - but I suspect through incompetence rather than fraud.

3. Barclays originally repaid some of the ISP payments, but only for a few months but at the time the ISP was at least double charging me (yet B made the repayment for an unuseable service).

4. The ISP seemed able to stop and start payments from my account as they pleased. Even after things stopped - a few months later they were up and running again - and multiple payments again in some months.

[Bang!]

OK - have checked with the court - no decrees (am in Scotland).

 

Checked with two online credit reference agencies, both done as online freebies, and both have failed to return info. They say they need documents sent in to substantiate who I am.

 

So I guess its postal order and snailmail time now.

 

I found bundles more paperwork, and am starting going through it again - but need to go back abroad again for a week or two next week.

 

Can anyone suggest anything else I should be doing?

 

I will lay off SARing until I find the old statements with last payment dates, although from memory at least one is past now - but I would rather have it in writing infront of me first.

[slick132]

Hi Bang,

 

If you are looking to reclaim any penalty charges that BC added to your BC account in the last 6 years, you can do so and will get your money back with interest.

 

If you are looking to reclaim BC charges both within the last 6 years and older than 6 years, you should be able to get your money back with interest.

 

If you are looking at reclaiming BC charges that are all older than 6 years, your chances of a reclaim are not as certain. You would certainly have to take BC to court and, if BC decide to let the claim go to a court hearing, you could lose and have defendants costs awarded against you.

 

If you are looking to reclaim anything else relating to a period of 8 to 11 years back, I don't think you have a decent chance of winning such a court case and you stand to lose a significant amount if ordered to pay the Defendant's legal costs.

 

You can't reclaim any amounts taken by BC from your bank a/c when they used their right to Set-Off funds from one a/c to another.

 

I doubt you can reclaim any current a/c bank charges that resulted from the right to Set-Off which they used to pay BC as this was too long ago.

 

I don't think you can claim back anything now regarding payments errors to ISP's.

 

Quite simply, too much time has passed,. You would have to take court action and there's a big risk IMHO that a judge would feel that you have failed to take the action in a timely manner or with due diligence.