Car Blown up Help...

[Carblown]

2/3 weeks ago I bought a car from a trader, and the 2nd time i took it out the engine blew. The first time was the 5 hr drive home which was a steady 50/60 mph due to keep fuel costs to a minimum. The 2nd time was a 20 minute drive to a petrol station and it blew as soon as i gave it a little throttle.. This was all within 3 days of purchase

 

The seller wants nothing to do with it and heres one of his replies... I have written 2 letters, and now seeking legal action..

 

there are two sides to this story and you are giving very little of the actual truth and factual points. I do not like arguments or confrontation but nor do i like bad publicity when i simply do not deserve it, i have never been taken to court nor had any problems from Trading Standards in the eight years i have been trading as *** so i consider myself to be a decent guy.

I sold this to you under the motor trade rules which i hasten to add you willingly signed a legal document stating exactly that. The car was already reduced by £500 and then you also got another £500 by buying this way, i'm sorry but i really can't do it all and nor would any other dealer!

You will also recall that i didn't want to sell you this car as i made a zero profit on it and was in the process of actually breaking it up for parts that would have actually made me a profit. You insisted i put it back together and sell it to you which i did as requested, you were also made aware of the fact that i was no longer willing to retail sale any rotary powered car be it an RX7 or an rx8 due to the poor reliability.

You were made fully aware how you were buying this car, the document is written in extremely plain English and which a copy of which has been sent to you and one to my solictor who will be more than happy to take this all the way. I do have other key issues regarding the sale but i'll hold onto these for now, if you want to take this further then please do so, i think you'll find i've dotted the i's and crossed the t's.

 

Now i know selling as a trade sale is against the law, and im a consumer so the rights still stand. Just wanted to know what you guys think

[rebel11]

Hi car

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Heres some info:- http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer1_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help other people.

[oddjobbob]

we need to see a scan of the purchase invoice.

 

it all depends what it says on there.

 

however if what the seller states is true then he won't pay you even if you win. if you actually did decide to buy the car on trade terms ie you buy it you own it, then although its not strictly legal to do so then the dealer has indeed done all he can to sell it as is... i know as is doen't really count, but if you bought it on that basis then you should stick to it.

 

so is the seller telling the truth in his letter?

[Carblown]

If the car blew up after a few months of useage, id still be ****ed but id take it on the chin. The fact it was the 2nd outing i feel ive been had over.

 

I paid £5k and had a quote of a rebuild for £3k approx..

 

Hes apparently sent me it in the post. I didn't know it was a motor trade rule or whatever. I believed it was a no warranty slip as that is what he said when i signed it.

 

The seller is telling the truth bar these. I think hes trying to call my bluff...

 

there are two sides to this story and you are giving very little of the actual truth and factual points. I do have other key issues regarding the sale but i'll hold onto these for now,

[oddjobbob]

Hang on a sec.. did the selller actually tell you that he wanted to break the car for spares rather than sell it, and you wanted him not ot? Can you post a copy of the ad and the purchae invoice please?

[sailor sam]

was it taxed/MOT'd/ Did the seller allow you to drive it away?

 

Please note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Carblown]

Hi there,

 

I first shown interest 28th Feb, and i sent him an email on 3rd asking, would he accept 5000. He said Yes. So we both arranged a date to pick up. Sat 17th. Mainly due to work commitments.

 

4th, 6th and 7th March -Next few emails i sent weren't replied to. One asking him to leave a deposit and a few questions. I waited for a reply, and 3 days later, the ebay ad was removed and same on his site so i rang him to see what the crack was as i never had any replys from my mails.. He said he never got any response so he took the car in to get broken at his local garage..

 

I wasnt to happy to be honest as the wife and i had already booked a bank appointment to withdraw cash and already started to withdraw amounts out daily.

I did think this was abit suspicious at first as we had already booked the day to pick up if all was ok. But seeing as he was a decent guy and well known on a forum, i believed him. He said he didn't receive any of the mails and they appeared in his box with a phishing warning.

 

I told him i wasnt happy on the phone, 7th and explained why. Due to getting cash and appointment and date was booked off work to pick up. And the fact i really wanted the car. He told me to wait 3 days so he can ring to guy up who was breaking the car and see if he could put it back together. He said, wheels and bonnet were already off. Didnt understand why it would take so long, but now in the back off my mind i think it was to sort an underlying issue. ??!

 

He rang me back on the 10th saying that she back together and ready to pick up. So my next email was a Thankyou and ask how much tax and mot. There was neither for both but seeing as it was at his garage he sorted me out an MOT and 6months tax at extra cost.

 

Picked up on the 17th, 5hr drive home at 50/60mph. Garaged till 20th as i was going to take to work in the morning so went to the petrol station. The engine gave up on the way back as soon as i gave it a little bit of throttle.

 

 

 

The car isnt as described also.

I tried to post advert but cant post links??

 

 

On a better inspection on the 21st, when specialists came to pick the car up at a cost of £100 the car, i noticed the car is missing bits of interior. Alarm doesn't work, gauges dont work, Paintwork isnt as he made out to be. Fair few tatty, and broken bits of interior plastic. CD player is broken, non smokers car but ash and burn are there.

 

I think ive covered my side..

 

Any more questions?

 

 

Invoice says nothing about warranty or anything.. But he did make me sign another piece of paper, which i cant remember what it said. He never gave me a copy

 

He mentioned in the advert the car needs no money spending, nor does it need repairs.... Yea right...

Edited April 1, 2012 by Carblown

[Carblown]

was it taxed/MOT'd/ Did the seller allow you to drive it away?

 

Please note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

I had to pay for these on top of the purchase price...

[Carblown]

esperformance.co.uk/car_RX7-Twin-Turbo-'Type-R'--Mazda_190_0_index. php

 

 

Delete the spaces and add w w w to the beginning. Thanks

 

No documentation of rebuild, nor does it say when comp test was done. He told me hes been using it as a daily.

[sailor sam]

Ok the thing i'm trying to get at is that either the car was sold as spares and repair (which means it cannot be driven away from the seller) or not. The law is quite clear on this. If it was sold so you could drive it away, then SOGA will apply. It matters not what is written on the invoice (in fact if the invoice suggests that your statutory rights are limited by saying things like 'sold as seen', this could be illegal).

 

The seller has an obligation to rectify, it's as simple as that. Having said that, I personally wouldn't of touched it with a barge pole.

 

You need to writer a formal letter asking him to rectify the fault(s) at no expense to you under the SOGA 1979. Give him 7 days to respond and send by recorded post. If/when he refuses, you then send an LBA (letter before action) stating that you reject the car and want your money back. However, you could get it repaired your self and then peruse the seller for the cost but you must give him the opportunity to repair it first.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Carblown]

I've already written recorded letters. My 2nd, Final Letter LBA was sent Yesterday Morning. As i had no reply to the 1st letter..

[sailor sam]

Well you better have a read of this then because it looks like it will end up here;

 

http://smallclaims.me.uk/index.html

 

Please Note

e

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Carblown]

Yup... Thanks for the link...

 

So going off what you have read. What are your thoughts? He sounds pretty confident..

[oddjobbob]

Hang on please Sam before you give this man any mislaid expectations.

 

You ARE correct that by and large if the car was driven away then the SOGA will apply.

 

But thats why I wanted to see a copy of the purchase invoice, If it has 'TRADE SALE' printed across the top, and a disclaimer where the buyer signs declaring themselves as bona fide motor traders and that the car is not sold as fit for any particular purpose then the buyer is in trouble if he has signed and bought a car on trade terms ie sold as seen AND declared that he is a motor trader AND that the car is not sold as fir for any particular purpose.

 

I only say this as a chap in the trade that I knew used to sell only to the trade but used to get the odd joe public in from time to time... they had to sign the above on a trade invoice, one of the public took him to court over broken aircon or something and the chap I know won the day.

 

It does rather depend on what he signed.... I agree that he cannot sign away his statutory rights by a typical 'sold as seen' invoice... but if the invoice states 'sold for spares / and / or repairs only' or 'i declare that i am a bona fide motor trader' then he could well be in trouble.

 

This isn't as clear cut as it seems, the OP has already said the seller was breaking it..... I really don't know here.

[Carblown]

The seller wanted to break the car as to him it was worth more in parts as is any modded Japanese car.

 

I should soon receive a copy in the post going off his reply.. Ill let you know what it says

[Bang!]

Its the first time I have heard of a 5K car being broken for spares!

 

Wankel engines/parts are not easy to come by, and having work done on one is likely to direct you towards a higher priced specialist.

 

What actually happened to the engine?

[Carblown]

The car is in the hands of a rotary specialist.

 

The front rotor has lost all compression. It was too low it wouldn't take readings. Plus the rear was different than what I was told. That's all I know..

[sailor sam]

Hang on please Sam before you give this man any mislaid expectations.

 

You ARE correct that by and large if the car was driven away then the SOGA will apply.

 

But thats why I wanted to see a copy of the purchase invoice, If it has 'TRADE SALE' printed across the top, and a disclaimer where the buyer signs declaring themselves as bona fide motor traders and that the car is not sold as fit for any particular purpose then the buyer is in trouble if he has signed and bought a car on trade terms ie sold as seen AND declared that he is a motor trader AND that the car is not sold as fir for any particular purpose.

 

I only say this as a chap in the trade that I knew used to sell only to the trade but used to get the odd joe public in from time to time... they had to sign the above on a trade invoice, one of the public took him to court over broken aircon or something and the chap I know won the day.

 

It does rather depend on what he signed.... I agree that he cannot sign away his statutory rights by a typical 'sold as seen' invoice... but if the invoice states 'sold for spares / and / or repairs only' or 'i declare that i am a bona fide motor trader' then he could well be in trouble.

 

This isn't as clear cut as it seems, the OP has already said the seller was breaking it..... I really don't know here.

 

 

 

If that was the case. why has it been sold with an MOT and tax? End of the day Bob, if it was being sold as spares or repair, then the OP should not of been able to drive it away. As far as I am concerned, it is a straight forward retail car sale so SOGA applies. The seller has to show that the fault was not present at the point of sale to defend a claim. OP may like to run this by Trading Standards to clarify.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Bang!]

I am fairly sure there was a Scottish court case covering a garage selling to the public as "trade sales", but basically just a normal car dealer. I can remember the garage was on the road between Glasgow and Paisley, and roughly at the boundary (Pa1- Glasgow Rd/G52 - Paisley Road West).

 

The details of this case may prove useful.