Stagecoach Busses Open Complaint **RESOLVED**

[labrat]

Below is a complaint made to stage coach busses they have been warned its up here so lets see the responces

 

I have recently been approached by a couple (Miss T XXXXXXXX & Mr XXXXXXXXX) who have made a complaint about your service; they are dissatisfied with the reply and wish me to continue this complaint on their behalf

 

On several occasions now they have been asked to leave the bus to allow someone in a wheel chair to board, they have been chosen out as they are unable to fold their pushchair, I would have to state that I also personally disprove of this, although you are required by law to make provisions for disabled access you appear to deliberately miss-represent this in your terms and conditions stating “you are however, required by law to ensure that the designated wheelchair space is made available if a customer wishes to bead with a wheelchair or approved mobility scooter.” Although the Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (2000) makes it compulsory to make public transport accessible to wheelchairs it does not make it illegal to fail to move for these, it also specifically excludes mobility scooters calling these “an outdoor vehicle used as an alternative to public transport”.

 

I also note with interest that when they have been asked to leave the bus no re-compensation has been offered As the couple involved have brought a “megaRider” ticket they have entered into a contract with yourselves for carriage for that week, although your terms and conditions state that this may be withdrawn at any time I have, after consideration, decided that these may breach the couples right under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (2008) as it attempts to remove their right under the Supply Of Goods And Services Act to either receive the service they have paid for or for a partial or full refund of any costs arising from the failure to provide the service

 

After considering the above I have advised the couple that if they are required to leave the bus again they are to check with the driver that they are in fact required to leave the bus, they will then agree to leave the bus providing that he signs to say he has required them to leave the bus, they are then to leave the bus without argument and check the timing for the next service, if waiting for the next service would mean a large amount of inconvenience or would mean missing other commitments they are then to request a taxi and to obtain a receipt off the driver, this will then be presented to the local stagecoach office for re-imbursement, if no re-imbursement is forthcoming then a small claims entry will be made, at which point I have agreed to attend on their behalf and will of course ask that any reasonable costs arising from the court action be assigned to the charge as well.

 

I look forward to a reply encompassing the issues raised in this email, please note I have sent this email to both XXXXXXX XXXXX who dealt with the original complaint and to the email address I have on file for CEO complaints, I have also been asked to make this into an open letter so it will be posted on several forums such as the Consumer Action Group with any replies also posted without editing.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXXXXXX XXXX

 

(On Behalf of Miss XXXXXX,Mr XXXXXXXXX)

Edited March 23, 2012 by labrat
employee name left in by accident - removed

[citizenB]

I have also been asked to make this into an open letter so it will be posted on several forums such as the Consumer Action Group with any replies also posted without editing.

 

 

 

labrat.. could you please clarify.. CAG will not permit the posting of employee names/badge numbers and it would be extremely foolish of anyone posting "anonymously" to leave their own personal details visible on a public forum. So we are just slightly confused .. !!

[sailor sam]

Well I can speak from experience on this one as an ex-bus driver. To be honest (and i'm sure any bus driver will agree), carrying wheel chairs can be a problem when they are unassited as it then usually the driver who has to leave his cab and load them on and secure them.

 

The legislation provides for at least one wheel chair to be carried on a bus. To accommodate this, there should be an additional area to allow for the wheel chair to be manoeuvred into place which will normally consist of a row of side facing folding seats. The wheelchair MUST be positioned so it is facing backwards. The driver CAN refuse to carry a wheelchair unless the user complies fully with the correct way of him/her being secured. I have had some who insist on facing forwards for example which is not acceptable although I have in the end always got them to comply. As far as a 'mobility scooter' is concerned, it would depend on how big it was to whether it could be carried or not.

 

Now in my experience when the bus comes across a wheelchair user, the driver should ensure that he is able to accommodate him/her by (if necessary) making the area available. I have had to spend a few minutes asking other passengers to move so that the wheelchair can be bought on. It should be the case that at least 1 pushchair can still be carried as well although it may be the case where the passenger with the push chair may be asked to co-operate by 're-adjusting' their seating arrangement. I can honestly say that I have never had cause to off load a passenger who is already on the bus to accommodate a wheel chair. Strictly speaking, the driver should restrict his load to 1 pushchair only then this scenario shouldn't be a problem. As far as asking someone to leave the bus simply to accommodate another passenger, i'm not sure they are fully entitled to do that. If the push chair is to big so it would potentially prevent a wheelchair user being carried as well, then the driver should refuse to carry the push chair in the first place.

 

And people wonder why their bus is sometimes late!

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[labrat]

sorry i ment without editing other than names etc

 

i ment so that they can reply in full without things being taken out of context

 

i forgot to add in the letter about asking for the risk assesment for leaving a mother with small child at an unfamilar stop, it is something i will do at the next oppertunity

[assisted blonde]

Why are they unable to fold their pushchair?

[labrat]

its one of the older style ones with a fixed top, the base folds but the top section doesnt

[sailor sam]

Would it fit onto a older type bus which dosn't have a 'buggy' zone?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[labrat]

unlikely but all our busses now have those zones

[sailor sam]

Its beginning to sound like your pushchair is probably unsuitable to take on a bus anyway. The provisions on low floor buses are entirely made for disabled access (wheelchairs), not large pushchairs. However (as previously mentioned), to accommodate a wheelchair, the seating configuration has to be such that there is sufficient area available to manoeuvre a wheelchair into it's correct position. This area has been utilized with fold up seats to either provide additional seating capacity or a 'buggy zone'. Most (if not all) areas on low floor buses will have signage indicating this.

 

Point being that it is a 'buggy' that should be bought onto a bus rather than a 'pushchair' which cannot be folded. I think your compliant will simply result in their driving staff being 're-trained' into the correct type of 'buggy' which can be carried and which cannot. Basically nothing has changed in respect of the carriage of anything else other than wheelchairs which is why I asked the question 'would the pushchair you are using fit onto a older, non low floor bus'. If the answer is no, then it still is unsuitable for bus travel.

 

Unfortunately I think this is the response you will get although I still feel that once you were allowed on the bus by the driver, they had no right to off load you under these circumstances.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Ganymede]

sorry i ment without editing other than names etc

 

i ment so that they can reply in full without things being taken out of context

 

i forgot to add in the letter about asking for the risk assesment for leaving a mother with small child at an unfamilar stop, it is something i will do at the next oppertunity

 

 

I very much doubt they will have done a risk assessment for this.

[rambo]

I'm a london bus driver so can only comment on TFL routes.

 

There is no such thing as a 'buggy area' on a TFL bus. There is a wheelchair area that we, as drivers allow buggy users to use if it is not needed by a wheelchair user.

As a driver, I am within my rights to ask any bugger user to fold thier pushchair.

 

The problem is that women(mainly) with buggys seem to think that the wheelchair area is a 'buggy area'.

Buggys have become huge over the years and have also got alot wider, also, women pile loads of bags on to the buggys making them even bigger.

 

TFL rules are that if a buggy user is already on the bus and a wheelchair wants to board, I can ask the buggy user to fold thier buggy, but, if the buggy user refuses to fold thier buggy, I cannot make them. In that situation, I am required to call my radio room and inform them what has happened.

However, in the real world, I tell the buggy user they MUST fold thier buggy.

I get loads of women say 'but it does'nt fold', and I say, 'you mean you don't want to fold it'.

 

Some buggy users choose to get off rather than fold the buggy, and I always offer them a transfer ticket.

 

TBH, if I was a buggy user and was useing the bus regular, I would buy a small, narrow, easily foldable buggy, but, as has become the norm now, people don't give 2 sh*ts about anyone.

 

Ive had loads of buggy users tell me they are not going to fold thier buggy in order for a wheelchair user to get on, and I totally embarass the buggy user into folding thier buggy.

 

My message to the OP?, tell your friends to get a smaller, easily foldable buggy, after all, the buggy can be folded, the wheelchair user can't start walking again, can they!

[rambo]

Why are they unable to fold their pushchair?

 

I get the feeling that the driver asked them to fold the buggy, but they choose not to..................................

[RPI]

On National Rail we are covered by the conditions of carriage which states that buggies must be collapsed, I expect Stagecoach will have a conditions of Carriage also? Buses arent my area of knowledge though! It does annoy me sometimes when someone with a buggy will ask where the "Disabled" space is! I quite often ask if they need disabled assitence but that usually goes straight over their heads!

[sailor sam]

This is taken from Stagecoach's conditions of carriage;

 

5) Carriage of Wheelchairs, Small Prams and Buggies

We are constantly investing in updating our fleet to improve access and space for the disabled in wheelchairs and certain approved mobility scooters and for passengers travelling with young children in small prams and buggies.

 

Wheelchairs, approved mobility scooters, small prams and unfolded buggies may only be carried on suitable low floor vehicles. Wherever possible, the use of low floor vehicles will be shown on all timetable publicity and, whilst we will endeavour to operate a low floor vehicle on all advertised journeys, we reserve the right to substitute a non low floor vehicle when no low floor vehicle is available.

 

Subject to space being available and the discretion of the driver, we will carry small prams and unfolded buggies on low floor buses within the designated area. Prams and buggies must not block the aisle of the vehicle at any time.

 

You are, however, required by law to ensure that the designated wheelchair space is made available if a customer wishes to board with a wheelchair or approved mobility scooter.

 

You are required to co-operate in allowing proper use of the designated wheelchair space by vacating this space if it is required by a customer in a wheelchair or approved mobility scooter including repositioning small prams, folding any buggies and storing them in the luggage space.

 

Detailed guidance on accessing our services with a wheelchair or an approved mobility scooter is available by telephone from the local Stagecoach operating company’s Disability Helpline, in writing in the form of a local leaflet and on this website.

 

Details of approved mobility scooters are available from the Disability Helpline.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Nystagmite]

Stagecoach conditions of carriage

[rambo]

Stagecoach conditions of carriage

 

There you have it.

So a fuss made for no reason, and probably caused the drivers a load of grief.

[labrat]

good on it then lets say the drivers are less than polite

 

there is no law requireiong you to move for a wheelchair, even when in the designated bays

[sailor sam]

good on it then lets say the drivers are less than polite

 

there is no law requireiong you to move for a wheelchair, even when in the designated bays

 

 

Actually you are correct. Their terms suggesting the passenger 'is required by law' is miss-leading. However, the bus co itself is required by law to provide accommodation for a wheelchair/disabled user. As I previously mentioned, your complaint will probably result in their driver's being instructed to be stricter in what type of buggy is allowed to be carried. If it wasn't for legislation requiring buses to have disabled access, I doubt very much that the industry would have paid for low floor buses in the first place. It is only because of that requirement that there are spaces to carry un-folded buggys on buses. again, if your buggy cannot be folded, then it is not suiitalble to be carried on a bus and thus the driver should not allow it on in the first place. The fact that he/she has then makes it their problem if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus.

 

One thing that is for sure is that the bus co has a legal obligation to accommodate at least one wheel chair on any bus adapted or designed to carry one. But, it has NO such obligation to carry an un-folded buggy.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[rambo]

What this will lead to is bus drivers(myself included) asking ALL buggy users to fold ALL buggys.

Buggy users are thier own worst enemy.

[labrat]

hmm well ill message to the admins to close the thread

 

the reply from the ceos office did go into alot of detail, some of it new, some of it im happy with some im not but at least they responded however the last two lines of a (nearly 2 sides of a4) email are

 

"we treat correspondence through our complaints system as private matters and consequently I do not authorise you to publish my response in any public format."

 

so theres little point the thread being here

[sailor sam]

No doubt they quoted from their conditions of carriage.

 

Thank you for the update.

 

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[labrat]

they did but they did also admit error in asking them to get off at an unfamiliar stop, and promised to look into the fact that they quote a law that doesnt exist

[citizenB]

Thread closed as requested.

[labrat]

i posted a thread on stagecoach and pushchair issues a while ago

 

since which its gone back and forth a little

 

in the end we agreed it was in their terms and conditions, but they agreed those terms and conditions went beyond what was required by law

 

as such they have offered a contribution towards an easy fold pushchair, which has been gratefully accepted

 

as they have been reasonable ive advised the sister in law to write back advising she accepts and is also reasonable and willing to accept any contributions in stagecoach vouchers to use in further travel with the company

[citizenB]

Excellent - a resolution