Landlord and Deposit Issues on Leaving Property

[sam joyce]

Hi I have a landlord turned nasty who I disagreed with over a rent increase. I moved out after he proposed a large rent increase and he is angry I did this. He has made things difficult for me and even though I have done the place up and recently re-decorated, the flat is in much better nick than he gave it me but has said it counts for nothing in the contract. can anyone help give me advise on the following.

He has said he thinks the garden is a state, it is not it looks like any other garden after winter February just needs trim and mow which I have done. I have been here for 5 years and a small tree died which I removed. I think he is gearing up for charging me for a gardener (although I also just paid one to do the maintenance he doesn't want to give me a written statement as he doesn't want to get involved). How do I stand with wear and tear of garden or what can he put on me?

 

There are some handles missing from cupboards which broke x 2, will I get charged for them?

 

He is sending a third party to look over property and make report can i insist on being present when they do and that this happens while Im in the property as in before I vacate?

 

I have filled picture holes am I right in saying I dont have to repaint walls

 

There was a list of faults in the property some of which I have repaired but he sends me them to remind me of inventory but not sure why, these are his jobs to do not mine?

 

Furniture he said I could get rid of like the microwave which was here as I had one I dont have to replace, the money from selling it went back to him ?

 

If I put furniture in the kitchen on a vinyl floor then remove it after 5 years there is a stain (floor is stained al lover anyway) can he charge me for this.

 

Many thanks for any help I am broke as I have new baby and cant afford to loose my deposit after all the work I put into doing his place up for the baby.

[mariner51]

Was your deposit protected in an approved scheme?

When did you leave? After giving LL required Notice?

How long was fixed T of Tenancy? When did it commence?

 

If you dispute amount of deposit witheld, at some stage LL will have to justify with good move in/out inventories.

As you have vacated LL under no obligation to allow you to attend move out inspection, but worth asking politely.

[sam joyce]

Thanks

 

I am still in the property but leave/move out Thursday!

No deposit isn't protected by any scheme

Moved in here 5 years ago!

 

 

.....also if someone moves in before the clerk inspects for the inventory what happens if they scuff the floors or walls after I have gone?

Edited February 27, 2012 by sam joyce

[mariner51]

With no deposit protection (not required before April 2007) I fear DPS Alt Dispute Resolution scheme is not avail to you if LL claims unacceptable level of damages from deposit, so your only recourse would be County Court (SCC) for deposit return if LL witholds.

Since my other Qs remain unanswered, I will assume you now have a periodic T and you served LL with 1 clear month Notice to relinquish T on 1 Mar and rent is payable pcm.

I assume T commenced on 1st of a month in 2007? SPT rules require you to vacate on last day of T period ie last day of month following 1 clear month service of T Notice, otherwise LL could claim March rent, poss 2 months if no T notice served.

 

What rent is currently payable and what new rent did LL propose? Did he get as far as serving formal s13 Notice if proposed rent increase? How often has rent increased in 5 yrs? What was the initial rent pcm?

 

Please supply more details.

[sam joyce]

Thanks I understand you need more info but to be specific about notice periods and all will give away to the landlord Im discussing it here. I just need to focus on guidelines (all be it rough advise) on issues listed in my post, garden wear and tear interpretation, kitchen handles, faults listed, marks kitchen floor, there is no issues with tenancy agreement notice periods rent increases etc. I did put Ive moved out in error, I move out Thursday the landlord is sending clerk for inventory after I have gone. I am interested in a general interpretation of the listed issues in my post that I can confront the landlord with and suggest he is being unreasonable as the usual interpretation of these things is.........

 

many thanks.

[rebel11]

Heres some info:- http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/tenancy_deposits

[lexis200]

The first rental we had was only 6 months and they expected that to be in pretty much the same condition as when we moved in. However, our second was home for 3 1/2 years and they accepted a reasonable amount of wear and tear, ie patches on carpet where furniture was, a few stains here and their, general wear and tear on lino/carpet/walls etc.

 

The whole place (including the oven which was apparently a place that is often forgotten but charged for according to the agent) was given a thorough cleaning, but you just can't get rid of 3 1/2 (or five) years of living. Our garden was not in as good condition as when we arrived, but we moved out in the winter too so there has to be some leeway.

 

We did touch up paintwork here and there where the kids had particularly filthied it, but we didn't paint entire walls. We were told by our agent that this was all that was required.

 

Admittedly both our landlord and agent at the second property were very nice people (first one sounds like your - he evicted us when we complained that the oven literally fell out of the housing when you opened the door), but I think that it's fairly standard to allow wear and tear that you are describing.

 

If you are very worried I would probably have a go at a quick touch up over filled holes, and maybe replace handles with cheap ones - at least then you can point out that you have 'made good' on any wear and tear.

 

If you can not be there for the inventory, get hold of a video camera and record a walk through the entire property when it's emptied of your contents, paying attention to every nook and cranny, especially where you think there may be an issue. A video is better than photos imo as they can't say you've doctored it! In fact, I think on second thought I would do it regardless of whether you can be there or not as it sounds like it would be a good plan to have a record if your landlord is being a git. We did this with our first property and it did give us peace of mind.

 

Hth

[Ed999]

My comments only apply if the premises are entirely within England, and you were granted a shorthold tenancy (under which you have exclusive use of a separate dwelling, and the landlord does not live in the same building), and you were over 18 years of age when the tenancy was granted.

 

This posting is supplemental to the information in this forum's "sticky" threads and is NOT to be read in isolation.

 

Only a Court can decide what the legal effect of your tenancy agreement is.

 

 

Deduction for Dilapidations at end of tenancy

 

If the landlord alleges damage, he must prove it.

 

If there is no check-in inventory, the landlord really doesn't have a leg to stand on; so the tenant is in a stronger position where there is no check-in inventory.

 

The landlord isn't allowed to improve the premises through "betterment" (replacing an old or worn item with a brand new one).

 

Likewise, the tenant is not liable for the cost of cleaning or repairing an item which was already soiled or damaged before the tenancy began. A check-in Inventory can be evidence that an item was already in bad repair before the start of the tenancy.

 

 

Read this document - Fair Wear and Tear

 

And read this document - Wear and Tear Guide

 

Those documents explain some aspects of the law regarding fair wear and tear, applying the principle that a tenant is NOT liable to pay for the cost of remedying ordinary wear and tear.

 

This link gives examples of what is fair wear-and-tear, and what is not:

 

• http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/print_page.cfm?menuItemId=510.00

 

 

Also, the landlord can't ask the tenant to pay (i.e. out of the deposit) for the cost of repairs which the law requires the landlord to do. What those repairs are is explained in this FAQ -

 

• Disrepairs in privately rented accommodation

 

A detailed analysis of the landlord's repairing obligations, prepared by a Barrister, is set out at -

 

• Interpreting Repairing Covenants

 

 

Any deposit paid at the beginning of the tenancy belongs to the tenant. So the burden is on the landlord to prove that any deduction from it is justified.

 

Read the FAQ about what deductions the landlord can lawfully make from the deposit -

 

• Unfair deposit deductions

 

 

There is a vast amount of additional information about the tenant's legal rights in cases of disrepair on the website of Shelter, the housing charity -

 

• Repairs and Bad Conditions

 

 

Reasons given by the TDS for resolving a dispute in the tenant's favour, in similar cases, have included:

 

1. Grossly inflated charges for the repair work.

2. No receipts produced for the cost of work supposedly carried out.

3. No competitive quotes sought for the cost of the work.

4. No mention in the check-in inventory of the condition of the item.

5. No opportunity given to the tenant to put right damage, despite the tenant offering to do so.

6. The item claimed falls under maintenance, for which a tenant is not liable.

 

The Dispute Service puts great emphasis on the initial inventory if it mentions not only the items in the property, but also quite specifically their condition.

[sam joyce]

I have moved from my property I rented at which was a private agreement with contract. Many times times although my rent was due to be paid on the 1st of each month it was paid 2nd or 3rd according to how the date fell whereby on a weekend Sunday being the first I would pay it to his bank account 2nd or if I was busy on Monday then Tuesday the 3rd. It sais in my contract he can charge me 5% for late payment which he never has. Can he go back over all the times it was late and charge me?

 

I have moved out early according to my notice period. I gave notice on the 10th of month 5 of a six month contract moving out at the end of month 5. This is due to the landlord encouraging me to leave early so he could do the place up and charge more, but although he agreed to my notice without rejection now I have moved and he is not getting offers on the place he is bitter so I am wondering if he can hit me with the late payment charges which would total a lot over the 5 years Ive been there. He has been doing works to the house in my contract period so I think it is too late for him to insist I still owe rent but what about the late payments over the tennancy

 

Thanks for any help

[mariner51]

The LL could claim compound interest at 5% pa for each day your rent was underpaid, from the first day of late payment IMO, but it is a complex calculation and for a few days each month prob not worth the calculation.

As for final month rent after you vacated but before your notice expired - poss he may try but until either of the above is claimed, why fret? Maybe LL is happy with you leaving.

[sam joyce]

Turns out LL is very bitter now is taking the deposit and wants extra damage costs which out-weight the disagreement with early departure and rent due from this. I suspect he will bring any applicable costs back in if I query damage costs which are very unfair.

[sam joyce]

Hi I have discussed this within a thread before but it has now become an issue I really need to be clear on. I left a private letting 6 month contract on the 10th of month 5. The LL was encouraging I leave early as he wanted to put the rent up and claimed he was loosing money me being there.When I told him I had seen a place he told me to "go for it" I gave him notice on the 10th to be out by 1st March end...contract was to be there till 30th March and he said Ok thanks for notice.

 

Now he has become bitter as the place isnt re-renting and he has lost money, he is saying I owe him rent until the end of March. I know from a neighbor there has been lots of noise in the flat and a new sink box outside so he is doing work in the period he wants to charge me for. Am I now void of the end of contract charges if he is using the place.

 

Many Thanks

 

Sam

[ims21]

Two threads merged

 

Please keep to one thread per issue

[sam joyce]

I vacuumed then mopped the kitchen vinyl floor well when I checked out of my property. I went under all the units as best I could but the floor is a light vinyl which was stained when I moved in, in lots of places and has never come up great all the time I lived there much to my frustration.

He has cleaned it industrially and so has sent picture of A/B clean area which does look much cleaner than my clean but he now sais I have to pay for this.

 

It seems there is nothing you could reasonably clean in checking out of a whole house that someone couldn't clean better. He has also moved kitchen appliances and taken pictures behind where dirt was behind fridge etc which it didn't cross my mind to do? Am I liable to pay his £200 cleaning bill for a small kitchen floor which is heavily stained anyway, he hasnt given receipts etc.

 

Thanks

 

Sam

[citizenB]

Ask him for copies of the receipts Sam - if he wants you to pay for this, he has to prove he has paid out this sum.

[sam joyce]

Many Thanks citizen B, yes I suspect him or his wife bleached and brillo padded the floor as they are bitter with me for leaving. Does he have to provide receipts for everything he cleans, he is charging me a fortune for cleaning the sink taps etc and lots of other things.In my small flat I moved from he wants £400 for three rooms.Isnt it usual a landlord might do the work themselves and hope to charge it on. My LL is very sneaky and will probably make a receipt through his company anyway, does it have to be from a proper cleaning company?

 

Thanks for helping me again

[mariner51]

"Ask him for copies of the receipts Sam - if he wants you to pay for this, he has to prove he has paid out this sum."

 

Incorrect. Receipts are not required, LL only has to claim 'reasonable comercial cost' If he admits to doing cleaning himself, he can claim for full materials but a much lower than comm labour rate. He cannot claim cleaning for grime caused by normal usage during T, subject to move in/out inspection conditions.

Unfortunately, a Ts assessment of cleanliness rarely exceeds that of LL, hence the requirement for pre/post T inspection reports.

The question shoild be 'would OP accept his new rental in the same condition he left his last one without complaning to LL?

It is much easier for LLs to offer properties to an acceptable prof cleanliness standard, without enrichment. and charge previous Ts, rather than rely on either party's subjective assessment.

[sam joyce]

Thanks Mariner51 and citizen b, you have prompted me to look at the contract when I moved in and the pages attached.In the contract on a page headed "things to do" the landlord has stated that the floor in question needs professional cleaning by his admision. This never took place. He stated on me moving out that the property must be ready for re-let without him having to do anything.I did state by return that this was questionable as to what was considered acceptable but he never specified anything?

 

Many many thanks for all your help

[dx100uk]

threads merged

 

dx

[sam joyce]

Hi I left my last house early as I thought I had verbal agreement to do so. Although LL happily accepted my notice he is suggesting I may owe rent up until the end of this month (written contract is until 31st). I am living around the corner and notice there is workmen doing up the flat painting cleaning etc so if he is doing work there does this negate any money he thinks I owe while he is doing the place up. Shall I take pictures of the place with workmen there to prove this so he doesnt charge me back rent on contract and deny he used the property in my TA period.

 

Many Thanks

 

Sam

[mariner51]

Does this thread relate to same T problem you posted on 13th? If so please do not split causing confusion & duplication.

I would suggest any written agreement trumps any later verbal understanding.

LL may have jumped gun entering property before end of Contract, but he may claim you gave verbal consent to renovations and you were free to return at anytimem up to end of fixed term.

Ts NTQ (verbal or written) cannot expire before end of fixed term even if reqd Notice period was given except by accepting your offer of early surrender. If you agree anything verbally it is best to confirm your understanding in writing with proof of posting

[citizenB]

Threads merged as requested..

[sam joyce]

Does this thread relate to same T problem you posted on 13th? If so please do not split causing confusion & duplication.

I would suggest any written agreement trumps any later verbal understanding.

LL may have jumped gun entering property before end of Contract, but he may claim you gave verbal consent to renovations and you were free to return at anytimem up to end of fixed term.

Ts NTQ (verbal or written) cannot expire before end of fixed term even if reqd Notice period was given except by accepting your offer of early surrender. If you agree anything verbally it is best to confirm your understanding in writing with proof of posting

 

Seen the place today units removed from kitchen mess everywhere and trades people, so he can still charge me rent while this is going on if he wants to enforce written contract?

[ashmk]

Yes, unless you have otherwise in writing from him.

[sam joyce]

If I cant agree reasonable costs for damage with my landlord and take him to court to claim back money what costs am I risking. if he wants £100 for example I disagree and court sais I owe £50 do I have to pay his legal fees or he mine?

 

Thanks

Sam