Excel/ Vehicle Control Services Wheel Clamp

[stu997]

The person i spoke to on the phone today was a civilian, however she was taking advice from an inspector. I have his details for future reference.

I will take all the paperwork i have to a police station and report a crime fro there. If i still get no joy i will go all the way to th Police complaints commission and if necessary the press.

 

Am i right to report this as extortion or obtaining money with menaces. Theft seems a little weak. Even though they have stole from me it was done with menace.

[dx100uk]

a speculative invoice is NOT a Debt

 

you really need to get this chargeback done

 

phone the bank and DEMAND its done

 

keep going up the chain till it is

 

do not take NO for an answer

 

under chargeback they must refund and investigate AFTERWARDS..

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

 

as for these clampers

 

there is another thread on here

 

its demanding money by ransom or something or with-holding propery or something like that

 

whatever it is it IS a criminal matter and matters NOT it was on private land

 

if i put up a notice that says i will hit you on the head on my land and do it - is that right?

 

no its not

 

dx

[stu997]

Thanks DX.. will try and find that thread now.

[instrumentsofjoy]

Interestingly - this is a clamper who doesn't hide behind a PO Box number.

 

Registered Address:

 

2 Europa Court

Sheffield Business Park

Sheffield S9 1XE

 

They are part of Excel of course.

[stu997]

Thier tickets have a po box address for correspondence. Have had to send the letter of action to it. Recorded delivery so will see if they sign for it.

Does it make them any more legal in the way they carry out their business because they have a registered address? I doubt i will hear anything from them now they have extorted money from me. But I will fight this all the way

[Tony P]

Thier tickets have a po box address for correspondence. Have had to send the letter of action to it. Recorded delivery so will see if they sign for it.

 

Companies House record -

 

Name & Registered Office:

VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LIMITED

2 EUROPA COURT

SHEFFIELD BUSINESS PARK

SHEFFIELD

UNITED KINGDOM

S9 1XE

Company No. 02498820

 

In the fighting of this I think you should involve the Land Owner they were acting as agents for.

I am not sure where you go as you say it is the Church property - intentions of withdrawing your custom would probably be less of a threat to them than a supermarket!

[stu997]

Have already spoke to the person who is the one that deals with this.

The church warden!

An extremely arrogant individual and to a certain degree threatening.

He wouldnt give me any of his details however he should also have had a letter of intent on his doorstep this morning.

I cant threaten to withdraw any services from him, just told him i held him jointly liable and would sue him as well.

[Anus Horribilis]

Utter cobblers, it's not an authorised transaction at all if you were forced to pay under duress. This is standard procedure from them to refuse to issue the chargeback..

 

I'm no friend of the clampers, but I wonder if this is a line of attack which will benefit the interests of consumers. Credit cards are a vital last-resort option in a crisis, typically because something has gone wrong and a large payment is immediately needed.

 

Maybe your central heating blows up in February, and you have to pay for a new boiler. Maybe you missed a flight and you have to book onto the next available plane. Maybe a loved one is injured abroad and their travel insurer is quibbling about repatriation, so you bypass that debate by arranging it yourself. I had a car written off a few years ago, while a terminally-ill family member was in need of daily care & support - I didn't have the time or energy to mess about with insurers and hire cars, so I walked into a main dealer and drove a £8,000 used car away 40 minutes later after payment by card.

 

In all these cases the customer might feel that the liability more properly rests with someone else, and they are being 'forced' to use a credit card because the other party has failed to meet their duties. Nonetheless, and speaking only for myself, it would be a bad thing if such payments could be easily reversed.

 

If I decide it is necessary to make a large emergency payment, then my credit card is the obvious way to do that. I don't want the call-centre to refuse the transaction on the grounds that I might try to cancel it later. And I don't want the supplier to refuse a card and demand cash, because they've had card payments reversed so they don't trust that method any more.

 

"Under duress" in it's proper meaning applies to immediate threats of unlawful harm, and is inherently criminal. We should not broaden it to apply to any payment which the customer resents having to make.

 

Good luck to stu997, this general comment isn't intended to say anything about his particular case and I hope he gets a chunk of money back one way or another.

[Bang!]

The church surely has a sign outside naming their brand of bible thumping.

 

Once you have the name, its likely there will be a diocese with administrative staff who should be more approachable than the warden.

[stu997]

Ok, Have been down to the Police Station and had a long conversation with CID and Duty police SGT.

 

Because Vehicle Control Services "believe" they have a right to seize my property for the purpose of paying overdue monies owed to them, then this situation cannot be deemed as theft in any form. Therefore no "criminal offence" has been committed.

 

However, by seizing my vehicle, and threatening to remove it unless I paid up, is in breach of Civil Law. There are a number of breaches in respect of this.

 

1, They have not been to a County Court and takien action against me to ratify this as a debt. I don't by law owe them money until they have done so.

2, As has been quite rightly said, they do not have the authority to seize my property, in order to retrieve money they believe I owe to them. My car was clamped, I should have had to pay £100 release fee for that offence on its own. Court appointed Bailiffs have this right only!

3, Thy refused to give me a receipt.

4, No identification was on display by the clamper.

5, No information on my right of appeal was given.

6, On one particular PCN, I have not been given a 14 day statutory right of appeal. I was forced to pay 2 days later duing the clamping incident.

 

What was explained to me was the jurisdiction of the different Law Enforcement Agencies. These range from the Police, to Immigration, Customs and Excise and Trading Standards, For this particular incident, Trading Standards are the agency that have to investigate it, and bring charges against Vehicle Control Services should they deem they have committed one or more offences. If during their investigation, Trading Standards find that VCS have committed an offence under Criminal law (ie violence) they then they pass that on to the Police for their investigation.

 

I have already opened a case with Trading Standards, so I will have to ring them back and give a more comprehensive statement in regard to everything that has happened. VCS are also in breach of BPA regulations, of whom thay are members of. I will make a complaint to these, but do not expect to get anywhere with this, seeing as they run the show.

 

I have sent Letters of Intent to both VCS and the Landowner. I do not expect to hear back off these at this present time.

 

I will get back in touch with my bank and demand a chargeback explaining that the payment and incident is under investigation by Trading Standards.

 

Anything else I am missing????

[stu997]

"Under duress" in it's proper meaning applies to immediate threats of unlawful harm, and is inherently criminal. We should not broaden it to apply to any payment which the customer resents having to make.

 

I understand this fully Anus and an extremely good post!

 

I do resent having to make this payment, because of the circumstance surrounding it. If I had been charged £100 release fee, then fair enough, that would have been the end of the story.

 

But!

 

They have forced me to pay "alleged debts" to which I am disputing. I do not expect my bank to chargeback and give me the money straight away. I expect them to hold it until such time the incident has been investigated and the outcome established. If it is found I dont have a case then fair enough, I have exhausted my options and will have to bite the bullet on this one. But in the same breath, why should these companies have my money, gaining interest on it whilst they are under investigation under breaches of civil law?

[Tony P]

Because Vehicle Control Services "believe" they have a right to seize my property for the purpose of paying overdue monies owed to them, then this situation cannot be deemed as theft in any form. Therefore no "criminal offence" has been committed.

 

As a side issue to Stu's case, if it can be shown that VCS had previously lost a case on this point they can no longer "believe" they have the right.

Not having Appealed any such case decision to a higher Court implies both VCS's knowledge and acceptance of the point.

 

If someone can tell of such a case the matter should be taken back to the Police to demonstrate their reason that "this situation cannot be deemed as theft in any form" has evaporated - in fact didn't even exist at the time.

 

Anyone?

 

 

Keep at it Stu.

[stu997]

A good valid point Tony.

Will try and trawl through google and see if I can find anything.

Anyone else that has 5 minutes to look into it, your help will be appreciated.

I intend to go as far as I can, and exhaust all measures to bring these bullies to task. All your help and input into assisting me is really helpful.

If I succeed, then a very valuable precedent will be set!

[stu997]

I know I seem to be going on a bit here but its only what i think is relevant and could be used against VCS.

Just had a look at the 3 PCN's again. They have all been issued by the same patrol officer and is confirmed by their id number :- 736

The clamping ticket has writing which is identical to the PCN's yet the patrol officers id number is different :-0172.

It is 100% the same writing, so can anyone shed light on this?

[dx100uk]

just confirms even more how much of a suspect business it is

 

dx

[Bang!]

The police are saying there is no offence regarding "believing" they did no wrong - its based on most crimes having two components - "mens rea" and "actus reus" - basically "guilty mind" and "guilty act".

 

The most recent high profile case was when Richard Madley was accused of shop lifting a bottle of champagne he left in the trolley rather than lifting it to be scanned at the check out.

 

In court Madley was found not guilty, pretty much based on it being an "oversight as someone with so much wealth would never intend to steal so little" - so no mens rea - so no offence.

 

Kinda smacks of "rich people can't steal" though!

[stu997]

Just had a check on Vosa for Goods Vehicle Operators license held under the names of Vehicl Control Services and Simon Renshaw Smith which comes back with no results.

Also tried Excel parking services ltd and postcodes of registered offices for both companies and again no results.

 

They would need an operators license to use a tow truck. Seeing as they dont have one that i could find, there is the possibilty they dont actually have a tow truck for removing vehicles.

 

Again, another threat without substance for intimidation purposes??

[esmerobbo]

Have you tried CAPTAIN CLAMPIT LIMITED another of Renshaw-Smiths companies?

 

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/901597952

[stu997]

Again no Goods Vehicle Operators license for a company under that name.

[stu997]

My bank totally refuse to do a chargeback on the amount robbed from me. They don' t want to look past "it's an authorised payment by a guarunteed form of payment"

Have been in touch with the Financial Ombudsman , at least they are taking this seriously and have issued a letter of complaint to Natwest.

Trading Standards have advised me to write to VCS and copy it to the Landowner, after the 14 days notice of action I have already given them, outlining exactly what they have done wrong in obtaining this money off me. Will do a draft and post it up for anyone to proof read and help me get this letter absolutely spot on.

[stu997]

Do all debt collection agencies have to be licensed? If this is the case ( which my research shows it is) then how can a clamping company enforce payment of an alleged debt when they are not licensed to do so?

Trying to find the exact law or guidelines in regard to this if anyone knows!

I am also trying to find the act or guidelines that refer to debt collection. Have been reading through some OFT guidelines but am unsure if they apply to clampers.

Edited March 13, 2012 by stu997

[DBC]

Without a court warrant nobody can seize goods in lieu of an alleged debt, licensed or not. This company have acted illegally and the police should act on it, and not just dismiss it as a "civil matter".

[stu997]

Thanks Dbc.

I am compiling a very conclusive statement in regard to the whole incident, everthing i feel aggrieved for and the laws or guidelines i believe VCS have contavened. It is my intention to submit it to the police, along with a formal complaint in respect of their refusal to act to my request.

I have read through the OFT guidelines on Debt Collection of consumer credit debts and i am not sure whether this situation is bound by them guidelines.

What is apparent is that debt collection agencies have to be licensed. I would say that as VCS are not licensed as a debt collection agency then they cannot construe the money they allege i owe them as a debt.

This could possibly add to my claim of extortion or obtaining money with menaces.

[DBC]

OFT guidelines and the question of licensing are irrelevant.The law of the land states that one private citizen cannot seize goods from another citizen because of an alleged debt without going through the correct legal procedures.