Mistakenly used wifes Oyster on bus - now TfL letter/prosection date **SETTLED OOC**

[BusTraveller]

Hello!

I read a few threads here and hope that you'll be able to help me out with this matter.

 

I received a letter from TFL asking me to make any comments regarding the incident that took place.

TFL only refers to "an incident took place at GREEN PARK station whereby you were spoken to by a member of London Underground staff regarding your train journey and the associated fare. The facts of this incidents are now being considered and I must advise you that legal proceedings may be initiated against you regarding this matter in accordance with the LU prosecution policy".

I am then invited to make any comments but I do not have to. However, not responding might harm my defense if I later want to rely on it in court and am being advised that this will be used as evidence.

 

So far about the letter and now I do not know how best to respond.

Since I am not exactly told what I am exactly charged for or what they attempt to charge against me I am not sure about the best course of action.

 

What happened in January was that I decided to take the tube home on Friday eventing from GP. Behind the gates was a Fare inspector and she asked me to show my oyster card. I pulled out my card and showed it only to realize that I was actually not holding my own oyster but my wife's student oyster. We do have several oyster cards at home for when friends visit etc and I must have picked her card as opposed to mine. We are both using our cards regularly to get to work/uni and I did not notice that I was using her card in error.

 

I immediately told the inspector about this mistake and advised her of the above facts and that we mixed up our cards. She took my details, verified them and then read my rights to me. When she wanted to ask me several questions I stated that I would not like to make any comments on the spot and remain silent. I was told that I might be prosecuted for evasion of fare. I repeatedly apologized for my mistake and re-iterated that I had no intention of evading any fare and this was a matter of mixing up our oyster cards at home.

 

While I realize that this was a stupid mistake that should not have happened I had no intention of avoiding any fare. At no point was I offered to pay a penalty fare. While I had no intention I realize that by an honest mistake that can happen I ended up in a situation where I was not in possession of the correct ticket/fare, hence I would have expected to pay a penalty fine for my mistake. This is the first time that such a mistake happened and I was shocked to find out that this might lead to fine of up to 1,000 GBP and a criminal record!

 

I read in several threads that pleading guilty would automatically trigger a criminal record, which I certainly have to avoid. Also it seems like aiming for an out of court settlement is the best available option left in this situation. At this point I am not even sure with what they are attempting to charge me so would rely on some experience from users what the above refers to.

 

Also, I am wondering whether I should ask for an out of court settlement at this point or simply state the same as above, i.e. only give my version of what happened and what led to this situation and then see what happens next.

 

Your advice and feedback on what to do in this situation is greatly appreciated as I only have a few days to respond and am not sure what's the best action to take.

 

Many thanks in advance!

[Old-CodJA]

In any case where a person is using a season ticket or Oyster that is restricted to use by another person, the allegation will almost certainly be 'intent to avoid a fare contrary to Section 5.3.a of the Regulation of Railways Act (1889)'

 

You can always write and attempt to convince TfL that this was an innocent mistake, but the responsibility for checking that your ticket is valid for travel before starting any journey always lies with the traveller.

 

How much of an explanation you give is entirely up to you, but TfL have a reputation for taking a hard line on misuse of other peoples' tickets.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[Justice_]

Misuse of concessionary passes is taken very seriously by TfL, and they will charge you under section 5.3a of RRA 1889. You can look view TfL's prosecution policy here (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf). It is extremely unlikely that they would allow you to settle out of court, they would only do so in exceptional circumstances (for example if you were to lose your job or visa). It is probably best not to offer them any more information before consulting with a solicitor.

[Ganymede]

We do have several oyster cards at home for when friends visit etc

 

 

This is not relevant but I'm surious about how this works...

[BusTraveller]

I read about the hard line approach that apparently especially TFL is taking. That's why I am really worried about this and just can't believe that a criminal record would be caused by this. I understand that it is up to me to ensure that I have a valid card for my journey but as I pointed out, this was a mistake that happened and there was no intention to actually evade any fare. After all my wife was using my card at the same time and effectively overpaid for her journeys.

 

While I doubt that I can bring up such an argument with TFL I hope it explains here that there was no intention to evade any fare.

 

Not quite sure now what to do. It does not feel right to simply ignore the letter and see what happens. My intuition would be to state what happens and leave it with that. Maybe suggest a settlement out of court right away.

 

Should I really consult a solicitor at this stage? Are there any good ones that you 'd recommend for such a scenario?

 

 

@ Ganymede: you're right it is not relevant to the case, but we do have about 4 oysters at home (my wife's season student pass, my oyster (generally PAYG or monthly pass) and two others are topped up PAYG for visitors) and they are stored in a basket next to the keys...

[Ganymede]

Ah ok I see, thanks.

[MrGates]

Yours options on this issue are limited, So did you know beforehand that your wife had your oyster? Your best course of action as has been suggested is to write to TFL on the matter to see if they will give the opportunity to settle.

 

Your assumption on the issue of a penalty fare is wrong im affraid and in this case being issued with one was not an option as the inspector has suspected intended fare evasion (travelling on discount oyster) The purpose of the PFN is to encourage people to buy tickets before travelling. You are advised not to ignore the letter as it isnt one of those things that will go away and if you do not reply to them then expect a case at court to be heard in your absence, there is a chance they might call you in to discuss the issue face to face.

[BusTraveller]

Hello!

 

I sent the suggested letter to TFL back then and haven't received any furhter communication apart from a request for a copy of the multiple oysters we have in our househould. I provided those back in April or so and reiterated that this was an act of mixing up the cards. Apologized again and asked to settle this matter outside of court.

 

Nothing came since then and yesterday after returning from vacation I found a letter in my mail with a summons to appear in court on July 12th. This was received just on our first vacation day so it has already been more than two weeks by now.

 

It is saying that on that day London Underground will be applying for the sum of 130 GBP for the sum of costs incurred. Along with it came some more documents and the "evidence", i.e. statement of the RCI and a usage analysis of the oysters.

 

I am not sure what is the best course of action for me to take now. My understanding is that if I plead guilty I automatically will get a criminal conviction which would be a complete disaster and my main goal would be to avoid this.

 

Is it feasable to contact the prosecutor directly and suggest again an out of court settlement as I cannot imagine that an appearance in court is really in their intention. What would be the best way to argument here? Anybody got some experience here?

 

Or what would be my chances of going to court and repeating my previous statement? Will the court be able to convict me of the crime of not having the intention to pay the fare even though that was not the case at all?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

[Old-CodJA]

I found a letter in my mail with a summons to appear in court on July 12th. This was received just on our first vacation day so it has already been more than two weeks by now.

 

It is saying that on that day London Underground will be applying for the sum of 130 GBP for the sum of costs incurred. Along with it came some more documents and the "evidence", i.e. statement of the RCI and a usage analysis of the oysters.

 

I am not sure what is the best course of action for me to take now. My understanding is that if I plead guilty I automatically will get a criminal conviction which would be a complete disaster and my main goal would be to avoid this.

 

Is it feasable to contact the prosecutor directly and suggest again an out of court settlement as I cannot imagine that an appearance in court is really in their intention. What would be the best way to argument here? Anybody got some experience here?

 

Or what would be my chances of going to court and repeating my previous statement? Will the court be able to convict me of the crime of not having the intention to pay the fare even though that was not the case at all?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

 

 

Firstly, I think this part of your post needs to be looked at and hopefully, better understood.

 

I cannot imagine that an appearance in court is really in their intention.

 

 

 

Clearly the intention of TfL is to prosecute. They do not waste time, money and effort on issuing Summonses and preparing files for no good reason. What you need to do is to find an attractive alternative to offer them in order for them to discontinue this action.

 

 

I have to say they are pretty robust in pursuing the misuse of Oysters and other season tickets, but you could arrive at Court on 12th July and once you've registered with the Court Usher ask him/her if you can speak with the prosecutor. Maybe you can convice him/her to accept an out of Court disposal, but if you do then you will need to be able to pay whatever figure is agreed there and then in cash, so make sure that you have the means with you.

 

They do not have to agree to settlement and although unlikely, it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

[BusTraveller]

Hi!

 

Just to give you an update. After consulting with the local CAB and following a visit to the local legal advice center I eventually called up TFL.

They insisted on a written response which I provided. I carefully reviewed their prosecution policy and basically argued along point 10 that a warning letter would be more suitable instead of prosecution and that a prosecution could have a very severe negative impact on my current and future employment opportunities.

With my hearing date approaching I chased them up today to get an update and shortly afterwards received an offer to settle this outside of court.

Upon payment of £400 to cover their expenses for the prosecution they would be willing to withdraw the case if it is received prior to the court date.

 

On the court document, these costs were listed as £130 and I can hardly imagine anything has been done since then apart from reviewing my email! While it somehow feels like being blackmailed and getting squeezed I guess there is no point in arguing with them. Or have you guys had any experience with that? Just not sure if this is a take it or leave it offer that is non-negotiable.

 

Given what is at stake it is probably best to pay up and take it as lesson learnt to be more organized with these things.

 

I’d like to thank each one of you who was willing to read through this and dedicate their time and offer advice to help me in this matter. This was very valuable and more useful than all the advice I received from CAB or the local legal center….

[Grotesque]

Given what is at stake it is probably best to pay up and take it as lesson learnt to be more organized with these things.

 

I think that's the correct spirit.

[llondon]

Hello BusTraveller,

 

I am in a very similar situation (almost identical i would say).

 

Is it possible it you paste your letter to tfl? I really need to see what wording i should be using and what arguments i should be addressing when i write to them.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I don't know if Bus Traveller will see your post, as they don't seem to have been around for a while.

 

It would be a good idea to start your own thread and tell us what's happened. Template letters don't work terribly well for this situation because everyone's story is different and it's usually better to write your own. I think I've seen it said that the transport companies get to know the template letters and don't always respond well to that. It shows that you're taking the matter seriously if you write something in your own words.

 

The guys should be able to give you and idea of what to say once they know what the problem is.

 

My best, HB

[ramy]

Hi, can you please share the telephone number you used to call tfl?? and the address you sent the written response to? Thanks

[dx100uk]

thread now closed as repeated new users mistakenly post on it

the org thread is now 4 yrs old

you wont get seen

 

 

dx