Can they do anything?

[Loontwo]

Hello guys,

 

my story is that I work in retail. Have been in my job for over 8 years. Never had a problem with till shortages (maybe once actually but it was sorted after)

 

We have a new staff member who started as an xmas temp and were allowed to stay on. They are probably the most useless staff member we have. Even after being part of the team for 4 months their shelf filling is awful, they always have problems on the tills.

 

Their till has been down a fair bit, an odd £1 or so.

 

Anyway. I was on the tills the other day and little did I know the till I decided to go on was the same till that staff member had been on earlier. Had I known this I wouldnt of gone on it.

 

The main manager is off on holiday but the deputy was in charge and I cashed up with her. The till was £8 down. After rechecking it was indeed £8 down (only a week ago the till was £10 down but I wasnt on it that time). The deputy got quite nasty and had to do an incident report. She put something like "Till is £8 down, only 2 staff members used the till and I will give you their names if required" in a harsh way.

 

She then demanded I pay £4 back (the other staff member would be asked to pay the other £4) or I would have severe consequences.

 

First off what good would it do paying £4 back when the report has already been put through the system?

 

I told her that since our hours are cut I just simply dont have the money to give away like that when the chances are it isnt my mistake. I told her that im saving for some important things and because of that my money is tied up and im living on just £10 a week for a while.

 

 

Today was my day off and I was txting some of the staff there. 1 who was working today reminded me that its in my best interests to pay the money when im back in tomorrow.

 

After thinking of it I just couldnt be bothered. I was going to take the money into work tomorrow to pay and demand each day I go on till, its my own till that nobody else has been on.

 

That was until I went into work today. The deputy had already gone home and the supervisor was left in charge. I was told by staff that the deputy was saying that its suspicious that im budgeting money/having money troubles and all of a sudden the tills are down. Then went on to say when theres an investigation they are going to be told this and I will be out the door.

 

I have done nothing wrong, can I really get in trouble for not paying it back? what shall I do?

 

 

thanks

[padja]

Deputy cant do anything, or demand anything, I'm supposing you work for a chain of stores? I would go to next in line of command, speak to them about how you feel, your suspicions about new staff member. Remember this is bullying in the work place, I suspect a word in the ear of someone higher up will soon put a stop to it (hopefully)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You must register a grievence about

the unfounded allegations, does

your employer have a staff manual

laying down procedures for this kind

of situation??

[jacketpotato]

Clearly, its irrational to ask someone to pay back money when there is only a 50% chance its their fault. You say it was the deputy - why don't you ask for main manager for a quick chat and explain your concerns? I would have thought that a competent manager would not let an issue like this get out of hand, particularly over a miniscule sum like £8.

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

Although I am sure that you are fully conversant with the following piece of legislation, I still send you to it...

 

ERA 1996, ss 17-18

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/17

[Loontwo]

Thanks guys,

 

Yea I work for a retail chain, Theres no staff manual or anything in the shop. I did ask ages ago to look at the retail handbook but was told by the manager there isnt 1.

 

The problem at current is the main store manager is not back at work for another week or so as shes had 2 weeks holiday but maybe I should have words when she comes back then?

 

Thanks for the link Bigredbus so that means pretty much its up to them to take it out of my wages on payday if they investigate and see its down due to not doing my job right?

 

I do think their system is unfair at work. I havent had to pay money back before but others have, it doesnt add up also since the tills were put through on the system as £8 down, now if it went through tomorrow as £8 up (if I paid) it would be classed as an overage and according to the system if the tills are up, a report also has to be done (if things were done by the book and put through).

 

Too right about them bothering for a measly £8. I mean realistically. In the past 3 years the tills (not mine) have been down by an overall total less than £100 (in the last few weeks it was down the most it had ever been). Theres cameras in the shop actually facing all the tills and staff on the tills, bag and pocket searches are done whenever anyone finishes their shift. Potentially nobody could steal from the tills as they would be caught without a doubt.

 

I did think earlier that maybe its not worth head offices time coming down to investigate because afterall, theres too many factors, it could of been anything ranging from a till fault to a note falling down the back of the screwed in till drawer or a mistake when cashing up. Fair enough if it was £100 down in 1 day as its more obvious its someone being dishonest and would be easy to pinpoint. You never know with them though

[rambo]

This is why shops should not allow an employee to take over from another employee on the same till without the 1st person cashing up 1st.

It's just money saving for the company.

[Loontwo]

I agree, and also it seems to be about cutting corners for management. We have 4 tills for example, if 4 till staff were in that day and they had a till each it would mean at the end of the day the manager/deputy/supervisor who cashes up has 4 tills to count, bag up the floats and put through the system. Whereas to them if 3 tills had the floats put in (but not emptied) and recorded what was in the float, they would only have to count and bag 1 till, the other 3 can just have the floats put back in the safe.

 

The day in particular I was doing an afternoon shift. The newest staff member (who does makes mistakes/is useless) was doing the morning but had finished before I got there so I had no idea they had been on that till. Nobody bothered to tell me, and since she has been here she has already had to pay back till shortages about 6 times.

 

 

I think its a security procedure of not cashing up in between peoples shifts because that would mean carrying a load of cash and coins from 1 end of the shop to another when the shop is packed with customers (also they cant actually put it through the system until the end of the day. Every day each till can only be put through the system where it says if its up or down once).

 

Guaranteed whilst the manager isnt back, tomorrow is going to be a day from hell with the deputy in charge on her own expecting me to have the cash with me to give her.

[Gbarbm]

Hi

When you sign on the tills, do you have to input a number that is unique to you so that management know who was using the till at a specific time?

[Loontwo]

yea we all have our own pins, the problem with it for this instance is identifying who was on the till at certain times may not reveal where the money went missing, of course if it was lost by giving too much change they will never be able to find that transaction

 

 

 

Also forgot to say that on a typical day the tills are also used by management for refunds and they may even jump on each till for a bit

[Gbarbm]

I see what you're saying. I just thought that they could identify transactions from the ID number.

I'm sure there are people on here more knowledgeable than me about this, but I'm sure that if you do an X or Z read on the till it will provide that info, maybe I'm wrong but I am sure someone else will know for definite if that is possible.

Are you a member of USDAW (union of shop, distributive and allied workers) if so, might be worth having a word with your union rep.

At the end of the day, if your employer does not have concrete proof that you took money from the till, why should you give them £4? I know it's only a small amount of money, but next week they might want £40!

And as for their comment about you saying you were short of money that is ridiculous....do they think you're working for love of the job or to pay your bills?

[Loontwo]

I think the thing though, lets say the till was down cause the customer gave too much change. The transaction on the receipt could show the customer bought something for £7, the customer gave them a £10, meaning it would be £3 change, however the staff member mistook that for a £20 and put £20, gave £13 change, meaning its £10 down, but untraceable since if the found that transaction it will just look like the customer did give them £20.

 

 

Nope sadly not part of a union .

 

I totally agree there, also even though the £4 may seem small, its a big amount for the hours staff have been cut down to. Its just 2 or 3 at tops 4 hours shifts. Even losing £4 is getting close to an hours wage lost.

 

Exactly, to me its silly, people work to earn money, if I did have money problems as bad as the deputy thinks £8 out of a till would never solve them and it means the chance of being fired so the "money problems" will just get 10 times worse

[Gbarbm]

Exactly!

As an earlier poster said it might be worth putting in a grievance.

Is the HR department within the store or at head office? Might be worth speaking to them.

Also, try and get hold of the company procedures regarding till over and under rings.

I just think it is wrong on so many levels that they make staff pay till shortages out of their own pocket with no proof!

[Gbarbm]

I'm on a rant now..... The other thing is say a manager uses the till and they make an error and the till is short and then you use it later and make no errors, the till will still be short because of the managers earlier error... Would you still be expected to make good the shortfall or does the manager put their hand in their pocket to make it up as well?

Is there ANYTHING in your contract that mentions making good till shortages?

also, I appreciate that you might not want to name the company on here but you can pm me it if you want.

I have a relative that works in retail who may be able to get more info on this for you.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

So if the till is up, do they share out the surplus?

 

My best, HB

[Loontwo]

thanks again everyone.

 

 

HR is located at head office so perhaps as you say I should get hold of them.

 

Gbarbm Theres nothing in my contract about making up till shortages, indeed that is true, if the manager went on earlier and made a mistake, chances are they wouldnt say anything and thus when it comes to cashing up and they see the till is down they will ask anyone who has been on the till that day for money. I will pm you the company

 

Honeybee, nope they dont, in fact what they usually do is if a tills up, not put it through the system as up, but just leave it in the till in case someone has a bad day on the till and its down.

 

Whats unfair is if I was on the till 1 day on my own, and it was a few quid up, they wouldnt put it through so the till would remain a few quid up, but then if another staff member's till was down the next day that few quid would be used to balance their till and they wouldnt be asked to pay anything back

[Gbarbm]

PM me the name of the company Hun and we will see if we can sort this out

[Loontwo]

thanks well i tried to pm you but it just said I need 15 posts minimum to send a pm .

 

Just to say today went well, the deputy didnt say a thing about the money and the "useless" staff member was working yesterday, they were on their own till and it was down by £5... So I think to the deputy thats full blown proof that its not my fault the tills are down.

[Gbarbm]

Yaaay! Looking good then, let's hope that's the end of it for you

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Greivance procedure must be put into

place by the store manager and if it is

not you need to inform HR at the head

office.

[Gbarbm]

Agree Brig, just it case the situation rears it's head again

[honeybee13]

Hello again, well I hope that's the end of it.

 

Just to mention though guys that we often see on the forum that raising a grievance in a public sector company may not make you employee of the month and can lead to other problems.

 

Loontwo, would a group grievance be an option if this becomes a problem again? Strength in numbers and all that.

 

My best, HB

[Loontwo]

thanks, yea I think raising a grievance is a last resort since it could turn people bitter, I mean management isnt too bad and they act fair, however they do have days when they are completely out of order for no reason.

 

The main problem in the workplace is people want to protect their own jobs, whilst people would agree with me in person, on facebook or even via txting, if it came down to me putting in a grievance they would keep quiet.

 

 

Maybe this time from what people here have said its good to put it down to a misunderstanding (although I didnt get an apology) and if it does happen again then pull the guns out for the war

[honeybee13]

The main problem in the workplace is people want to protect their own jobs, whilst people would agree with me in person, on facebook or even via txting, if it came down to me putting in a grievance they would keep quiet.

 

I think you're absolutely right. It's been said many times here that colleagues will fade away when you need support.

 

Also, from experience of this forum, please be very very careful about what you say on facebook because it causes huge problems. In fact, to be on the safe side, I would recommend saying nothing about work on FB. That way you can't be caught out.

 

My best, HB

[rambo]

Do yourself a favour, do not put anything about this on facebook, a very very slippery slope.

I'm not on facebook so don't know if you can remove stuff you have already put up, if you can, do it.