Tenants changed locks??!!!!!

[kitsh]

Hi looking for some advice

 

i have two tenants that are in rent arrears, i have issued them with a section 8, they have said they are not going to leave in 14 days and so i will have to proceed to court to get an order possession order. This is going to take months, in the mean time they will be living rent free, the house is a 3 bed house so i wanted to know if i can let out the 3rd bedroom?

They have changed the locks to the house so i can't show the room to anyone, i know tenants are allowed to change the locks to their rooms but the front door of the house? i thought only tenants that let the whole property (house/flat) could do this?? these tenants have a ast agreement for room only with access to bathroom/kitchen.

Could i let the other room out to a friend or family member? ideally i would like to do this as the two tenants have threatened that they will damage the house

 

Appreciate all feedback

[caledfwlch]

Hi looking for some advice

 

i have two tenants that are in rent arrears, i have issued them with a section 8, they have said they are not going to leave in 14 days and so i will have to proceed to court to get an order possession order. This is going to take months, in the mean time they will be living rent free, the house is a 3 bed house so i wanted to know if i can let out the 3rd bedroom?

They have changed the locks to the house so i can't show the room to anyone, i know tenants are allowed to change the locks to their rooms but the front door of the house? i thought only tenants that let the whole property (house/flat) could do this?? these tenants have a ast agreement for room only with access to bathroom/kitchen.

Could i let the other room out to a friend or family member? ideally i would like to do this as the two tenants have threatened that they will damage the house

 

Appreciate all feedback

 

AFAIK A tenant has every right to change the locks, providing they change them back at the end of the tenancy.

 

And regarding renting a room out, I suspect that depends on the contract they signed - does their contract just offer Tenancy for a 3 bedroom house, or are they both on individual contracts, whereby they are only renting their bedroom, with shared facilities for everything else?

 

If the first, then you too would be in breach of contract, and it could be construed as an attempt at illegal eviction or Harrassment/Intimidation which are both criminal offences of course, especially if you plan on moving in a friend or family member to "keep an eye on them"

 

Tread very carefully.

[kitsh]

thanks, they both have individual agreements, a room with shared facilities, its not tenancy for the whole house, the fact they have changed the locks means i cannot let out the other room, how can this be okay?? :/ i understand that if i let the whole house i would have no right but as i said its just a room with shared facilities so can i let the other room?

[45002]

mistake

Edited January 23, 2012 by 45002

[mariner51]

LL has right to enter communal areas whenever. IMO you can get locksmith to change the main communal entry door lock and charge 50% of cost to each of the 2 Ts provided you give each T the new key.

You also have right to enter unlet 3rd room for viewings etc

Moving in a 3rd occupier for 'spare' room may make the property a HMO (HMO Reg not reqd)

Wait for others to comment on my observations or seek legal advice.

[kitsh]

LL has right to enter communal areas whenever. IMO you can get locksmith to change the main communal entry door lock and charge 50% of cost to each of the 2 Ts provided you give each T the new key.

You also have right to enter unlet 3rd room for viewings etc

Moving in a 3rd occupier for 'spare' room may make the property a HMO (HMO Reg not reqd)

Wait for others to comment on my observations or seek legal advice.

 

Thanks i will wait for others to comment, if someone else can confirm that it would be okay to change the lock/provide them with a new key, what happens if they refuse to pay the 50% charge?? being they have stopped paying rent, would i still have to give them the key even though they refuse to pay, which i very much suspect they will??

[The Carpet Cleaners]

IMO you have every right to change the front door lock as Mariner51 says, as you have to be able to access the communal area. Yes you charge the 2 tenants the bill. If they refuse to pay then the cost is added on to the charges in the court. You MUST however give the tenants the new key (even if they refuse to pay for it), as you will then be going down the expensive road of illegal eviction. As a side issue your reasons for moving someone into the 3rd bedroom may be sound, but you should keep quiet about it on a public forum, as it could be seen as a form of intimidation.

 

Just my opinion here.

[Steve__M]

Sometimes the law appears to treat the tenancy as what it looks like rather than as what is in the contract.

 

Have the tenants previously had access to or use of the third bedroom? Has the bedroom ever been let out separately before?

 

You haven't said what the deal is here but if, for example, the tenancy is really to a couple or to two friends, with an implied assumption that they have access to the third bedroom then moving a third person in may be risky.

[kitsh]

Hi thanks to all that have replied so far..

 

@steve. The other tenants don't have access to the 3rd bedroom it is locked, but they could have broken into now? yes the 3rd bedroom has been let out separately in the past. The two tenants are not a couple or friends, they moved in different times, both in rent arrears, they have now obviously got together and decided to squat in my house rent free till i go to court which will take months and they know this.

 

i tried calling the tenants today but neither answered, so went to the house with a locksmith and he wouldnt open the door, reason being "there are people inside the house" the two tenants then called the police saying i was harrassing them and police told me to leave or they would arrest me? i explained to them what was going on but they said i could not enter the house that i need to go to court. The tenants told them i was trying to throw them out (lies) all i want is to enter the house and let out the 3rd bedroom but they totally ignored me. On top of all this the locksmith charged me for nothing!

[queensclose]

police dont really understand civil law. do your tenants have keys to their own rooms.

if so you need to visit the police station and speak to the desk sergeant and explain you intend to change the front door lock. you have every right to the communal areas. and even to move into the third bedroom yourself.

[2ltr16valve]

Typicl police behavior !! Go to the station and demand to speak to the shift supervisor, explain everything and ask that the police accompany you to prevent a breach of the peace from the tenants..

[mariner51]

The thing that was poss missing from this visit was proof that you were the owner and LL (AST) and that Ts were only renting individual rooms with communal areas.

I can understand locksmith confusion if not known to you and people inside. Why gain entry via him if you could just ring the doorbell for someone to open door would be his question.

Similarly for plod, whose sole intent would be to avoid a breach of the peace after being summoned by the occupiers.

I think a word with rel Inspector at local cop shop, with evidence of your legit right to enter, and a request for PC attendance to prevent a pot breach of the peace, or proceed with s8 repo hearing asap if you do not already have Court order.

[kitsh]

police dont really understand civil law. do your tenants have keys to their own rooms.

if so you need to visit the police station and speak to the desk sergeant and explain you intend to change the front door lock. you have every right to the communal areas. and even to move into the third bedroom yourself.

 

Hi, could you elaborate more on this? i didn't know the landlord could move in ? im just worried that they will accuse me of harrassment AGAIN when if i can move in myself it would be so much better.. i fear that they may start to sublet it ! :/

 

Yes each tenant has their own key to their rooms, is that bad? So i will go back but this time go to the police first and explain it and hopefully i will not be told the typical answer of "you need to go to court" so frustating

[kitsh]

Typicl police behavior !! Go to the station and demand to speak to the shift supervisor, explain everything and ask that the police accompany you to prevent a breach of the peace from the tenants..

 

Thank you i will do this first thing tomorrow, hopefully be back with good news.

[queensclose]

The fact the tenants have keys to their own rooms makes your case stronger. You really need to speak to the police to make your intentions known

 

You have every right to live in the property . The tenancy agreements give each tenant an allocated room. The rest is communal with one unit vacant. You have right to access your house. Except the let rooms wether the rent is behind or not

The tenants do not have extra rights because they are in arrears.

 

Speak to the police and ask for an officer to prevent a breach of the peace while you change the locks

 

The police do not get involved in civil law. Only criminal.

The tenants would have to prove harassment not just allege it. And as long have an officer with you to prevent breach of the peace. You will be fine

[kitsh]

IMO you have every right to change the front door lock as Mariner51 says, as you have to be able to access the communal area. Yes you charge the 2 tenants the bill. If they refuse to pay then the cost is added on to the charges in the court. You MUST however give the tenants the new key (even if they refuse to pay for it), as you will then be going down the expensive road of illegal eviction. As a side issue your reasons for moving someone into the 3rd bedroom may be sound, but you should keep quiet about it on a public forum, as it could be seen as a form of intimidation.

 

Just my opinion here.

 

oh ok, thanks will keep it in mind.....hope tomorrow is a good day..i hope..

[45002]

kitsh

 

Look at this another way

 

If you get in and change the lock,what's to stop them changing the locks again an hour later !

 

Would a new tenant want to live in bedroom 3 with theses 2,while you wait to get a possession order from the courts and bailiffs enforce the possession order if they dont leave.

 

Just be better to wait until the bailiffs get them out......

[kitsh]

i am a bit confused now, can someone confirm that i (landlord) can in fact move into the 3rd bedroom? do i need to give them a specific type (form) of notice? i dont want to do anything ilegal :/ when i go to the police tomorrow and explain that i want to move into the 3rd room do they have the authority to enter the house if the tenants refuse to open the door? i know they will refuse to open the door, which is why i would need a locksmith, but i don't want to happen what happen today where the police ordered me to leave or else get arrested and then i have to pay the locksmith again for nothing?

[kitsh]

Look at this another way

 

If you get in and change the lock,what's to stop them changing the locks again an hour later !

 

Would a new tenant want to live in bedroom 3 with theses 2,while you wait to get a possession order from the courts and bailiffs enforce the possession order if they dont leave.

 

Just be better to wait until the bailiffs get them out..

 

This has crossed my mind, that they may change the locks again, but the whole court process is going to take a months, in the meantime they may sublet, damage and all sorts..

 

You seem to have some experience, can i ask, from when you get the court order for possession how soon does it take to get the warrant for eviction ?

[45002]

i am a bit confused now, can someone confirm that i (landlord) can in fact move into the 3rd bedroom? do i need to give them a specific type (form) of notice? i dont want to do anything ilegal :/ when i go to the police tomorrow and explain that i want to move into the 3rd room do they have the authority to enter the house if the tenants refuse to open the door? i know they will refuse to open the door, which is why i would need a locksmith, but i don't want to happen what happen today where the police ordered me to leave or else get arrested and then i have to pay the locksmith again for nothing?

 

Police are Not going to help you with this...

 

It sounds like it just going to be a waist of time trying to change the lock,as it more than likely theses 2 tenants will just change the lock again.

 

You need to seek legal advice on the best way to get theses 2 out of your property for rent arrears and breach of there TA....

[R J Dearden]

i am a bit confused now, can someone confirm that i (landlord) can in fact move into the 3rd bedroom? do i need to give them a specific type (form) of notice? i dont want to do anything ilegal :/ when i go to the police tomorrow and explain that i want to move into the 3rd room do they have the authority to enter the house if the tenants refuse to open the door? i know they will refuse to open the door, which is why i would need a locksmith, but i don't want to happen what happen today where the police ordered me to leave or else get arrested and then i have to pay the locksmith again for nothing?

 

What type of tenancies do the current tenants have? If they are AST's (assured shorthold tenancies) one of the requirements is that the landlord DOES NOT reside at the property that is let. Personally I would not therefore move in if they are AST's as this could affect any legal actions to evict the tenants.

Edited January 24, 2012 by R J Dearden

[R J Dearden]

On top of the above if both tenants are 2 months (for monthly rent payments) or 8 weeks (for weekly contracted payments) you can serve a notice of intention to take legal against the tenants - this is the 1st process of suing them for rent arrears and evicting them through the courts. If they have individual agreements you will need two of them. Similarly are they in month to month or fixed term contracts as at the same time if in a month to month serve notice to quit upon them at the same time. Websites such as [EDITED] maybe able to assist you.

Edited January 24, 2012 by honeybee13
Links to external sites are not allowed. Please refer to thesite rules"

[queensclose]

This has crossed my mind, that they may change the locks again, but the whole court process is going to take a months, in the meantime they may sublet, damage and all sorts..

 

You seem to have some experience, can i ask, from when you get the court order for possession how soon does it take to get the warrant for eviction ?

 

it depends what work load the bailiff has. he will need to give them a minimum 8 days notice served via the letterbox or via royal mail for a secure access.. the court will tell the time scale from issue of warrant for repossession to the eviction

[queensclose]

What type of tenancies do the current tenants have? If they are AST's (assured shorthold tenancies) one of the requirements is that the landlord DOES NOT reside at the property that is let. Personally I would not therefore move in if they are AST's as this could affect any legal actions to evict the tenants.

we,ve established that these are not self contained flats. land should not use an ast agreement. because of it being shared kitchen bathroom etc.

[R J Dearden]

we,ve established that these are not self contained flats. land should not use an ast agreement. because of it being shared kitchen bathroom etc.

 

Sorry I believe you are incorrect.

 

Shared facilities within a house with individual rooms being let can still be done under AST's as long as the landlord does not live there!