Orange Store Manager treats customers like dirt! ***Resolved***

[bajillions]

I'm not sure what the rules are about posting to other sites so I'll paste this here as well. This has been my experience over the last 2 days with orange who refuse to replace my 16 day old iPhone 4S. Heres the story originally posted at thechunkygeek.wordpress.com which I am updating everytime something new happens. Sorry about the length. Its quite shocking just how inept Orange have been with this, its got staff telling lies, swearing, trying to break the law, all its missing is sex!

 

Any help or advice with how to proceed are the best course of action would be grateful.

 

Orange – My worst customer service experience ever. Jan 13

I’ve worked in Customer Service for the last 11 years and today has taught me new lows of how to treat customers like ****. I want to stress straight from the off that this piece is not intended to get sympathy or even to “shaft” Orange. It’s more to share with people my astonishment that this type of thing can happen. I promise that every single word that follows is 100% true, some of this makes me seem like a bit of an awkward p**** but I’ve left them in for the sake of transparency

 

 

My Girlfriend bought a White iPhone 4S on pay and go on the 30th of December as a late christmas present from the Orange Store in the Cameron Toll Shopping Centre in Edinburgh, all has been fine with it until last night when we noticed that a long, thin piece of the glass panel on the front has come away from the phone. The phone has never been dropped at all and this is obviously just one of the freak manufacturing faults that happens from time to time. No big deal, We’ll ring Orange in the morning.

 

 

I called the store at 13:30 and spoke to a Female who did not give me her name and has not left notes on the account (despite speaking to me for 10 minutes) who said that Orange may replace the phone but as it was us who damaged it that it was unlikely as “it was outside of the 14 days and not our problem anymore”. I explained that the phone has never been dropped etc and that it was obviously weak, there are no scuffs or scratches anywhere else on the phone. I asked to speak to manager to get a better idea before making the trip and the Female said she would pass my details on, she then continually repeated variations of “Will you let me take the details” even though I was continually giving her my name and number!

 

The manager then took over the call and said without hesitation or pause “Are you going to allow me to take your number, too ****ing late then, bye bye” and hung up. Now as someone who has worked in call centres I have seen this trick employed before, as it plays to the fact the other people hearing the call can only hear one side. Its a good way of being “taken offline” for 5 minutes after having a difficult customer.

 

Called back almost immediately (9 seconds elapsed according to the phone timings) and a male answered. I was told that the manager was not available as he was on the phone to a customer, I said “That was probably me, the call ended and I need to speak to him further, he said “No the manager has been on the phone for at least 10 minutes and is not available” I told him I could hear the manager giving him instructions in the background and again the call was ended abruptly at the stores end.

 

Called back again and eventually spoke to Jim, the manager, who said that as the handset was in its 15th day I am not entitled to a refund or replacement from the store. I told him this was illegal as the product was not fit for purpose (the defect is potentially quite dangerous as its a glass display so its becoming sharp)

 

He then said he could not speak to me because i wasn’t named on the account (nobody is named on the account, only the address is listed and he had already discussed it with me so DPA would have already been broken) He spoke to my partner who took a number to call for a “doorstep replacement within 24 hours” she confirmed this was accurate 3 times before ending the call

 

Called Orange C/S, explained the situation and they advised that they do not replace pay as you go phones that have been purchased instore irrespective of the 14 day period. They confirmed that the 14 days only applies to refunds and not replacements or repairs. They stated that the store should replace any faulty products from their stock to minimise impact on other parts of the business, if this is not possible they should refer them to another store that has stock, if both are not possible stock should be ordered in for the customer. We asked to speak to a manager to confirm this and they confirmed this is the procedure.

 

 

Called back the store and spoke to Jim again, who stated that the above advice was false. He said “I think your lying because if you spoke to C/S how come there are no notes on your account?” I said I don’t add the notes and it was only a few minutes since I spoke to the advisor so maybe they were still updating the system (We found out in a later call that the reason the notes had not been updated was because JIm had left the account open, preventing it from being updated.). I asked him how we could proceed, if it means ordering stock or sending for repair he said “There’s nothing more Orange can do, we only cover you for the first 14 days, after that your not our problem anymore”

 

After some discussion about how poor and illegal that policy is he said “I really don’t care, take it up with Trading Standards if you think you’ve got a case then” I explained I will call customer service back incase they had it wrong but that I wasn’t confident. Jim said “Well don’t bother calling me back because I have more important stuff to be getting on with” in the aggressive tone I’d become used to and then hung up.

 

 

Called back C/S who again confirmed that Jims advice is wrong, I asked them to check the account and add notes so that I can prove that I called customer service. They were unable to get into the account because Jim was still in it and said they’d phone the store to resolve. They could not get through even though they tried 3 times over a 15 minute period.

 

I asked the advisor if it would be ok to record her telling me that they cannot replace the phone on behalf of the store and that the store should 100% be offering a replacement irrespective of the 14 day refund. She also suggested I go to an Apple store if theres one nearby, I explained the nearest on is in glasgow and whilst Ive been there before it usually as part of a bigger trip to Glasgow as its too far otherwise. (There are other reasons like not having enough time to get there during school hours or having to drag a six year old all the way to glasgow and back because of something Orange should be dealing with) I then thanked her and ended the call, safe in the knowledge that if Jim was confused about the procedure then he’d understand better now? How wrong was I.

 

 

I redialled the store at 14:35 no answer, I then tried a further 27 times between then and 16:00 before I eventually got an answer. During this time I had transcribed the recording and got it ready on my laptop to play it and also got a few pieces from the sale of goods act ready, nothing too arsey or technical just the basics that explain why I felt I was in the right. Jim picked up the phone and when I asked if there was a problem with the phones or something he said “No, we told you you weren’t our problem any more so we put all the phones on silent” and hung up! I was shocked at this because not only does it give me a problem as a customer but anyone else who was trying to call them was ignored for an hour and a half!

 

 

I called back again and explained to Jim “If your not going to speak to me on the phone then would you prefer that I came and spoke to you in person” Jim immediately raised his voice and said “Are you ****ing threatening me? If you come down here I’ll get centre security to sort you out” I politely explained that there was no threat, implied or otherwise so not to twist my words.

 

I also calmly explained that “I used to work for the security company who are contracted to the centre and so not only do I know the rules about what people can and can’t do, I also know the area manager” I then began explaining my points I’d prepared earlier, I had been talking for about 45 seconds when I asked JIm “Do you see where I’m coming from”? No response but I knew the call was live as I could still here sounds, the following is word for word what was said as I’d recorded this part in evernote:

Me: “Hello…Hello…Jim?…are you there? Jim?”

 

Jim: “I’m here”

 

Me: “What happened there did you hear my question?”

 

Jim: “No, because your were rabbiting on and the other phone rang so I answered that instead”

 

Me: “So you didn’t think to tell me you were doing that?”

 

Jim: “No, why would I?”

 

Me: “Because its polite?”

 

Jim: “I don’t want to be polite to you! Look, just go to the Apple store in Glasgow like customer service told you that you had to” (His emphasis not mine)

 

At this point I started to lose my temper, I asked him “So your saying that anyone who buys a phone from you is only covered for 14 days” he said “yes, like everywhere else”, I asked what happens if a phone breaks or develops a fault after that time he said “Its usually the customers fault anyway so its not really a problem we would tell them to go to the manufacturers own store” When I explained that only Apple has retail stores and theres no such thing as a RIM store or a Samsung store he said “Well thats not my problem, just like your not my problem, now I have to go because I haven’t had my break yet, don’t bother wasting your time phoning back cos my staff will be told to hang up on you, byyyyeeeeee”

 

I’ve since left 4 messages on the answer machine at the store and heard nothing back. I’ll stress again I haven’t written this for sympathy, or to get some sort of compensation for orange or anything like that, all I want is for Orange to replace my girlfriends 15 day old iPhone so she’s not running the risk of catching her hand on it and so its back to being how Apple intended it. If you could do me a favour and send this and post it to as many places as you feel comfortable I would be extremely grateful, its about time people like Jim and Orange realise when they treat customers badly nowadays they aren’t going to just bitch to a few mates down the pub.

Edited January 14, 2012 by citizenB
spacing to make reading easier.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?304041-****Why-credit-card-firms-must-refund-price-of-faulty-goods****

 

Advice taken from another thread...

 

 

 

Quote SOGA ' It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.'

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

 

 

[bajillions]

Thanks, I've quoted that too them so many times now, they just refuse to acknowledge the SOGA existence, they think their 14 day policy is enough

[citizenB]

Thanks, I've quoted that too them so many times now, they just refuse to acknowledge the SOGA existence, they think their 14 day policy is enough

 

 

Well now, quite simply put it isnt.. I am just going to have a look for some more information that you can a) send or b) quote to them..

 

BRB

[citizenB]

Here you go..

 

 

Hi rom

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Further info:-

 

10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE

12) SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE

13) WHICH? TEMPLATES CLICK HERE

[citizenB]

How did you purchase the item ? Credit card or cash ?

[citizenB]

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

 

If you paid by visa debit then the article above will be useful.

 

You can do a charge back on your credit card as well.

[bajillions]

Thanks for that, certainly something I'll look into

[citizenB]

Please let us know how you get on

[locutus]

Go above the store, Write to their head office and tell them the info in your 1st post, head the letter "Official Letter of Complaint" If they don't sort it, follow it up in 7 days with a LBA, then in 14 days take them to court. (Then go into the shop with your court order and ask for your refund just to see the look on the managers face )

[rebel11]

Hi baj

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain whats happened, what the manager said and did, how they've let you down and what you want them to do. Send it to:-

 

Olaf Swantee, Chief Executive

[email protected]

 

Some tips:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

[bajillions]

Theres been a few updates on this today, i've updated the blog at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx with the details and screenshots etc. Its probably easier reading it there than me trying to post it all again on here? If thats not cool let me know

[rebel11]

Thats not cool, just write a brief summary.

 

Theres been a few updates on this today, i've updated the blog at xxxxxxxxxxxx with the details and screenshots etc. Its probably easier reading it there than me trying to post it all again on here? If thats not cool let me know

[bajillions]

No problem,

 

 

15/1/12

 

So today I was supposed to receive a call back “Just after 11″ as the lady I spoke to yesterday was going to speak to the manager of the store and explain to him their understanding of the Sale of Goods act. I have not heard anything yet and it is now 12:17pm, so thats another member of staff to add to long the long list of ones that have lied to me. This has gotten so ridiculous I have to re-iterate again that I am not making any of this up nor do I make any money from this blog. More updates to come later today no doubt as I’ll be phoning them soon.

 

 

 

15/1/12 12:42

 

10 minutes after the above update went up I received a call. They are STILL unable to get a hold of the store despite trying for over an hour, starting 15 mins before the store even opened. So again they repeated ad nauseum was “Theres nothing more we can do”, I said there must be some way of contacting the store cush as contacting another Edinburgh store and getting them to call or text the manager personally, or call the Area Manager, or email the store or something…Nothing “theres nothing more we can do, its the stores responsibility” Now, I’m more than prepared to go into the store, the problem I have is that particular manager has been pretty aggressive to me on the phone and has already threatened to call the police if I do show up. Whilst this is probably a bluff I’m not prepared to take the risk as he’s got a habit of not playing by the rules with me and so he could say anything to the police to get me taken away.

 

I Was transferred to Chris in Dealer Support, he is now escalating this “as high as he possibly can”. He agrees the managers treatment of me is “disgusting”, He is the first person at Orange to agree that I am entitled to a replacement. I now just have to wait unto 5 days for them to deal with it. When I do get to speak to someone when they call back I’ve made it clear to orange I want the phone replaced, my phone calls paid for and the phone unlocked so that I can take my custom elsewhere. We’ll see what happens. As soon as I hear anything more I will post another update.

[rebel11]

Hi ba

 

I believe you, nobody wants to take ownership or responsibility for your well founded customer issues. Don't confront the manager or do anything that can damage your complaint, however much you want to. You can add 'not able to contact the store' to your complaint, what if someone was armed and going around robbing Orange Stores and that store was next? Keep this thread updated. Maybe they should change their name to 'Red' thats probably more apt.

[bajillions]

Hi ba

 

I believe you, nobody wants to take ownership or responsibility for your well founded customer issues. Don't confront the manager or do anything that can damage your complaint, however much you want to. You can add 'not able to contact the store' to your complaint, what if someone was armed and going around robbing Orange Stores and that store was next? Keep this thread updated. Maybe they should change their name to 'Red' thats probably more apt.

 

Thats my plan now, I only originally kept calling the Store on Customer Services advice, haven't spoken to the store since yesterday afternoon. C/S has tried and they can't get through so I doubt id have much luck anyway. I definitely think raising this with the highest possible level is the best route otherwise other people are going to potentially have the same problems as me.

[johnvernon74]

Try ringing the Executive office on 08708 700862. I had dealt with them after Customer service were terrible, and they did resolve my problem quickly.

 

I note that you mention Dealer Support - this would indicate its not directly an orange shop. Possibly a franchise???

[bajillions]

Try ringing the Executive office on 08708 700862. I had dealt with them after Customer service were terrible, and they did resolve my problem quickly.

 

I note that you mention Dealer Support - this would indicate its not directly an orange shop. Possibly a franchise???

 

I'll give that a try when they open tomorrow morning Perhaps if it is a franchise that explains the level of attitude as the manager will think he's less likely to be reprimanded

[johnvernon74]

Any update with Orange

[bajillions]

I have spoken to the Executive Office on the phone today who have advised that they cannot deal with my enquiry without an Ofcom reference number. They are adamant that this must be dealt with by customer services

[bajillions]

So a very senior person from Orange called me this morning and offered to send me a brand new iPhone completely free as a replacement for the old one. They confirmed this should have been done on Day 1. They are also paying for the calls I made and will be conducting a full investigation into the managers conduct. It turns out he was not only giving me false advice but also a false name. They will also be taking further steps as a result of staff leaving notes on my account stating "Customer has damaged phone" despite nobody at Orange seeing the phone since it was sold.

 

Overall I'm still disappointed but I'm happy enough with the end result as it was what I was after, a replacement phone without needlessly travelling to Glasgow or sending it away for days on end, which Orange now agree is unacceptable (They should not be using Apples usually excellent service as an excuse to avoid the retail store processing a replacement)

[rebel11]

Well Done BJ.

[rudy691]

great result mate !

[johnvernon74]

Glad all resolved mate.