New CAB debt tool & online Assisted Self Help Debt Management Plan

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Interesting comments

 

I did hear some time ago that CCCS were keeping a close eye on the new award winning http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/ CAB online system and that they were looking at changing or updating their site too, so it is interesting from that perspective along with more.

 

I have had a further look through the new http://www.stepchange.org/ CCCS site and have to say in my opinion that it does seem pretty similar in parts to the CAB mymoneynedcab debt remedy resource where DMPs are concerned especially, but through it all there does not seem to be an online assisted Debt Management Plan feature in the same vein as the CAB one.

 

Maybe sequenci has a point - but, if so, then perhaps a little contentious point however, depending on your point of view.

 

Im going to have a close and careful look through the two sites again, perhaps compare here and there, see whats going on so to speak

 

Thinking about it, this could get very interesting.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Wintry

[sequenci]

Maybe sequenci has a point - but, if so, then perhaps a little contentious point however, depending on your point of view.

 

It's a cheeky comment for sure. I would love to see a report showing the outcomes of client interactions from all of the advice agencies + commercial sector too. What I mean is how many people ended up self-negotiating, how many ended up on a DMP, an IVA, going down the insolvency route etc. etc. I think it would be really interesting. I bet as a percentage there are more people on DMPs/IVAs than those that had contacted the CAB or NDL.

 

I like the Nedcab system but I really wish they would buy a domain name that's easier to remember!

[Wintry]

It's a cheeky comment for sure. I would love to see a report showing the outcomes of client interactions from all of the advice agencies + commercial sector too. What I mean is how many people ended up self-negotiating, how many ended up on a DMP, an IVA, going down the insolvency route etc. etc. I think it would be really interesting. I bet as a percentage there are more people on DMPs/IVAs than those that had contacted the CAB or NDL.

 

I like the Nedcab system but I really wish they would buy a domain name that's easier to remember!

 

Hi

 

Yes, see what you are saying but I dont think it is possible to ever get a true accurate picture.

 

The percentage of people who are turned away (if that is the right term) to manage their own Debt Management Plans due to one reason or another, for example little or no disposable income, not enough creditors,low level of debt or change in circumstances would be very interesting though. This is where I believe some of the main players have took their eye off the ball and may now be in real danger of scoring monumental own goals if they are not careful.

 

'Mymoneynedcab' sounds catchy and simple to me and they say that the simplest ideas are always the best and the question people are now asking - is, has it got them all in a bit of a panic?

 

Just looking through the stepchange site, thats after getting past the client testimonials, why do they look familiar I thought, mmm, then it came to me, I had seen similar on other sites, just trying to think where.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Wintry

[Guest]

it seems that banks prefer, and are more willing, to deal with a third party rather than the individual re negotiating a plan, despite the fact that there should be no distinction and no prejudice against an individual?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Ford

[Wintry]

it seems that banks prefer, and are more willing, to deal with a third party rather than the individual re negotiating a plan, despite the fact that there should be no distinction and no prejudice against an individual?

 

Hi Ford

 

Yes, I think you are right there and to be honest having someone handle everything for you including distributing the payments has obvious advantages its true and will always be in demand.

 

The way I have put it above looks inviting I suppose, but it is not always that simple and some people wish to control things themselves or have no choice as no one will touch them for various reasons and some do not just have non-priority debts.

 

Then of course there are the issues such as conflict of interest, profit, funding etc and human nature & survival being what they are.

 

If an agency starts to concentrate on the solutions were they generate the most income then where does it lead, what about those in debt who come for help that do not meet the criteria or have priority creditors on their backs, usually the most needy and vulnerable are these, they are surely what the charities should also at least equally be concentrating on and giving their time. If they do not then they run the risk of misting up the difference between them and the fee chargers and the fee chargers will seize their chance to expose this no doubt and so would I if I was them.

 

Debt advice is not just about who you can get into and perhaps keep in a debt management plan or an IVA it is about much, much more, merry go rounding people hardly helps at times.

 

With the continued progress in technology and the rising household availability of the internet it is arguably becoming easier for people to manage their debts and finances by themselves, this is a theme that the powers that be are promoting with millions and it is the future maybe, but it will never be for everybody

 

Face to face agencies and their advisers do not have the same luxury as the miles away at the end of a telephone advice providers and find themselves dealing with the ever more desperate, complex and time consuming cases & issues, they have to move with the times to function properly or perhaps survive even, its not a perfect world and things are set to get worse.

 

'Out of sight out of mind' is a well known saying, maybe 'out of sight out of touch' is getting there also with some outfits.

 

Watch the own goals people, times are getting hard and maybe a changing

 

Interesting times indeed

 

Thats my opinion anyway

 

PS - just about looked through the new CCCS site, no, I cant seem to find an online self help debt management plan. I definitely seemed to get close at times mind, but no, I dont think there is one tha knows:)

Edited November 15, 2012 by Wintry

[NEDCAB Lady]

we cannot see an online self administered debt management plan in there though guys, maybe we have missed it - I think the stepchange debt remedy is their self help offering.

 

Hello Nick

 

How you doing?

 

You could be right!

 

A

[Guest]

hi wintry

yeah good points. the Lending Code for eg also says that diy individuals should be treated the same as if were with a dmc. eg cfs, 30 days grace, sympathy/positivity, interest concessions, etc. also, bcobs says individuals in financial difficulties s/b treated fairly. but, it doesn't seem that way! seems like a 'scratch your back' industry!? not just this area mind.

[Wintry]

hi wintry

yeah good points. the Lending Code for eg also says that diy individuals should be treated the same as if were with a dmc. eg cfs, 30 days grace, sympathy/positivity, interest concessions, etc. also, bcobs says individuals in financial difficulties s/b treated fairly. but, it doesn't seem that way! seems like a 'scratch your back' industry!? not just this area mind.

 

Hi Ford

 

Fair points

 

With the drop in peoples disposable income the questions some are asking is will the DMP providers play the genuine independent impartial advice card or will they be looking nervously at their fees so to speak and in the case of the so called not for profit agencies, their cut / income from the creditors.

 

Of course if someone administers their own Debt Management Plan, sticking fo the expenditure guidence trigger figures then this argument does not really apply as the creditors have to be better off everytime as they receive all of the money and do not have to pay commission back to not for profit providers if that is the right term.

 

You are right creditors are supposed to treat people the same if they adminster their own debt management plan but we do not seem to see this highlighted much anywhere by the commercial or not for profit agencies (unless I have missed it).

 

I am not a real fan of fee charging debt management companies but I do respect that people should always have the choice, but they do have a point when you hear them say that the non-profit providers are paid by the creditors out of their clients payments.

 

My opinion is that if there is a direct financial interest in a debt solution be it the fee chargers or the not for profit (whatever that term actually means) then it has to a fair point that maybe genuine impartiality is questioned.

 

Looking at some of the debt management provider sites it is getting harder to tell the difference between the free and profit makers and now I have had a good look through the stepchange site, well, what can you say? have they pushed it one 'step' to far?

 

The competition between the DMP providers has to become more intense the way things are going, so maybe there will be more developments in the pipeline and perhaps the advertising campaigns will start soon (wonder how much all this costs).

 

The CAB have just added another aspect to their online system (links below) which I understand will soon link across the income and expenditure budget figures to the online DMP plan and other sections where appropriate and for flexiblity purposes.

 

http://moneysmart.nedcab.org.uk/budgetsheet.asp

 

http://moneysmart.nedcab.org.uk/

 

There are also rumours that are getting louder that the Derbyshire CAB Online system http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/index.asp may go round many other Citizens Advice Branches or even go national with maybe telephone adviser support.

 

Could get really interesting, ain't that so Stepchange?

 

My opinions as always

Edited November 23, 2012 by Wintry

[Guest]

hi wintry

fair points, as usual.

just seems that where it is diy, banks are quick to 'ignore' and send out for collection to dca's for their cut!

[Wintry]

Hi Ford

 

Cheers, loved by some, thats me:)

 

Yes, maybe they think people are a little easier to push around, having said that there does seem to be an increasing trend of offer acceptance.

 

Have a look at the link below - according to what is says it would seem the charity stepchange might have a few hundred thousands of pounds to chuck at prime time TV advertising, maybe even more as TV advertsing does not come cheap (could be less on the other hand) - quite incredible if true though

 

http://www.cpb.co.uk/blogs/2012/11/coley-porter-bell-rebrands-cccs-as-stepchange/

 

Jeeze, maybe the panic is worse than some of us first thought, I wonder what that other main telephone advice charity NDL makes of all this, mmm, maybe the competition is not just between the 'not for profit people' and the fee chargers and a CAB or two after all

 

PS - sorry sequenci, just could not help it:)

 

Keeping watching this space guys, a little birdie tells me today that other surprises may be in Santa's bag as it all starts to gather pace

 

Come on you CCCS people, yers got to come out of hiding sooner or later:)

 

My opinions again

[Guest]

Hi Ford

 

Cheers, loved by some, thats me:)

 

Yes, maybe they think people are a little easier to push around, having said that there does seem to be an increasing trend of offer acceptance. not from whats seen on cag for eg. and, as you know, in certain cases. before someone could blink, it would be in collections/dca despite difficulties advised prior, as they suggest (seems they are only interested in this prior notice if they can consolidate to keep their income stream). also, there is the oft guides (debt collection and irresponsible lending) which provide clear eg's of unfairness re diy'ers. will have a look at that link just now.

 

Have a look at the link below - according to what is says it would seem the charity stepchange might have a few hundred thousands of pounds to chuck at prime time TV advertising, maybe even more as TV advertsing does not come cheap (could be less on the other hand) - quite incredible if true though

 

http://www.cpb.co.uk/blogs/2012/11/coley-porter-bell-rebrands-cccs-as-stepchange/

 

...

 

[Wintry]

Hi Ford

 

Yes, Im with you on that:)

 

If I was the DEMSA & DRF people I would also check the stepchange link out (bet some of them have)

 

I mean, a film Director, new year targeting, well I say, whats going on, what and who next?

 

Whats that about a new debt management protocol?

 

Its been coming though, as predicted, they have made the break on the others, have they gone to soon though? how will the others respond as the battle 'grab' for the DMP plan & IVA money hits top gear:)

 

PS - slightly off topic:) - Ive just added another present request for Santa - can I have a 'spot the difference game' as a stocking filler pleeze?

Edited November 26, 2012 by Wintry

[Guest]

........

I mean, a film Director, new year targeting, well I say, whats going on, what and who next?

 

....?

 

and not just any film director! ridley scott, director of Alien! as you say, they must have a few quid to spare. maybe that provided by the bankers!?

Edited November 26, 2012 by Ford

[Nick Pearson]

Very interesting series of posts. Clearly some of the debt charities have a substantial amount of reserves set by as Ridders won't come cheap. As an aside our customer research shows that anything which raises the profile of personal debt leads more people to seeking advice, with far from all those going to the advertiser. It also seems that as the reputation of the banks has declined yet further since 2008 then anything linked to them or recommended by them has suffered reputational damage. Some consumers have doubts, doubtless unfounded, about the independence of providers recommended and paid for by lenders.

[Wintry]

Very interesting series of posts. Clearly some of the debt charities have a substantial amount of reserves set by as Ridders won't come cheap. As an aside our customer research shows that anything which raises the profile of personal debt leads more people to seeking advice, with far from all those going to the advertiser. It also seems that as the reputation of the banks has declined yet further since 2008 then anything linked to them or recommended by them has suffered reputational damage. Some consumers have doubts, doubtless unfounded, about the independence of providers recommended and paid for by lenders.

 

Hi

 

Think they may have stole a march on your team and loose arrangement of allies though Nick if thats the right definition. How are you going to respond to what looks like a very seriously funded challenge, maybe try TV & newspaper adverts (now where have I seen these before)

 

Seriously though, after reading through their new site, my honest opinion is that CCCS (stepchange) may be pushing DMPs a little too far here and the impartiality question finger pointers might have a field day.

 

As I have said before, there is much much more to debt advice than putting people in money spinning debt management plans & IVAs.

 

My view of those that claim to be charities is that they should be helping the most needy just as much as those who can pay and in some circumstances more so. It will be interesting to see what the entry critera is for their Debt Management Plans (eg disposable income etc) and the expenditure allowance trigger figure situation especially reading this paragraph of the link...below

 

"StepChange’s vision is of a society free from problem debt. We believe that the new name, positioning and identity will be a real aid to moving towards that ambition.” said Helen Westropp."

 

Really, what definition of problem debt might that be then?

 

Tricky ground CCCS / stepchange.... watch the marketing own goals, they could cost ya!

Edited November 27, 2012 by Wintry

[sequenci]

PS - sorry sequenci, just could not help it:)

 

It's all good, I've not seen anything that needs to be moderated in here. It's all healthy opinion. I'm sure the Stepchange people have read this thread for sure, I know a few of the guys are on here.

 

As I'm sure you already know the funding model between the likes of Stepchange and some of the other charities are very, very different. I can't imagine any of the others could afford to advertise - and perhaps they won't need to when MAS day comes

[Wintry]

It's all good, I've not seen anything that needs to be moderated in here. It's all healthy opinion. I'm sure the Stepchange people have read this thread for sure, I know a few of the guys are on here.

 

As I'm sure you already know the funding model between the likes of Stepchange and some of the other charities are very, very different. I can't imagine any of the others could afford to advertise - and perhaps they won't need to when MAS day comes

 

Hi

 

Yes it is a healthy debate on an open forum, just like it should be, CCCS (stepchange) are on here I believe including Peer and are welcome to join in, come on guys lets get it on, let the people know what is happening:)

 

They have more than likely been watching this thread since January if you ask me and will probably be glued to it now along with a quite a few others, all this has been coming as predicted with much more on the horizon and a few genuine surprises still in the bag, trust me

 

Yes, the funding models are different and that perhaps is part of their problem when it comes to the question of independence and impartiality, I mean just take a breath and seriously look at this situation of re branding /launch (if that is the right description) and the proposed advertising / targeting etc - have you ever seen and read anything like it from an organisation classed as a charity?

 

IVA factories were once a term well touted, could it be that another one might be edging its way to the forefront...say for instance ' Debt Management Plan Factories'...... ooooer!

 

Oh yes, MAS day, nice one, and what about those other big players at PP, dont ever write them off, only a fool would do that!

 

Just my views again:)

Edited November 27, 2012 by Wintry

[NEDCAB Lady]

Very interesting series of posts. Clearly some of the debt charities have a substantial amount of reserves set by as Ridders won't come cheap. As an aside our customer research shows that anything which raises the profile of personal debt leads more people to seeking advice, with far from all those going to the advertiser. It also seems that as the reputation of the banks has declined yet further since 2008 then anything linked to them or recommended by them has suffered reputational damage. Some consumers have doubts, doubtless unfounded, about the independence of providers recommended and paid for by lenders.

 

Hello Nick

 

Advertising by any form does not come cheap, what the TV & newspaper costs are is anyones guess, have you any info on the costs of TV & newspaper adverts to give us some idea?

 

I saw you at the MALG yesterday and heard you talk a few times, the last workshop on Universal Credit was entertaining at the back there (I was on the front row but we could hear everything), best part of the day really, especially when the panel called time on the last excahange of opinions, also it made us laugh a bit on the long train journey home

 

A

[Guest]

... Some consumers have doubts, doubtless unfounded, about the independence of providers recommended and paid for by lenders.

 

no doubt dmc's do try to do their independent best for their clients. point, amongst others, was that the bankers seem to 'prefer' to deal with a dmc rather than an individual diy'er, despite the requirement for equal treatment. and if no dmc involved they seem too quick and ready to collect/dca it despite the individual doing the 'right' thing by advising difficulties prior and trying to come to an arrangement themselves.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Ford

[Wintry]

no doubt dmc's do try to do their independent best for their clients. point, amongst others, was that the bankers seem to 'prefer' to deal with a dmc rather than an individual diy'er, despite the requirement for equal treatment. and if no dmc involved they seem too quick and ready to collect/dca it despite the individual doing the 'right' thing by advising difficulties prior and trying to come to an arrangement themselves.

 

Hi

 

I have to say you make a good point on the DIY - even though the OFT guidelines clearly say that those self administering DMPs should be treated the same, they maybe dont seem to be given the same attention shall we say.

 

This is probably due to a number of reasons including the smoother and efficient distribution of the payments systems by the DMP providers (after the up front payments etc where applicable) and that creditors are maybe just wanting a fast return and stuff others who are struggling.

 

As far as I can see none of the Debt Management Plan providers really seem to make much of a drum banging issue of helping people manage their own plans, but of course to do this would be to commit commercial suicide as they depend on the income from them one way or another which has to bring into question their independence and impartiality in my opinion.

 

The big problem and issue for many is where debtors go to the debt management providers (free & profit makers) are then processed so to speak only then to be told that hey, your best or only realistic option under your current circumstances is a debt management plan or an informal arrangement but sorry we cant take you on as you dont meet our entry criteria, in other words we cant make or 'generate' any money out of you. In these type of circumstances there are often pressing priority debts, do these agencies really take on cases with no real disposable income and negotiate with priority creditors? well, some of us know the answer to that one! They usually either suggest to people that they use their self help materials with no real sustained back up or they refer them to another agency such as the CAB with a little box ticking & spin here and there so to speak.

 

There is a self help system called Cashflow that is backed by a number of prominent banking and credit organisations, the idea and principle is good, but when you look closely, it is not really self help in the real sense, as to use it in its prime element then you still need an adviser to invite & enter, sign off the offers and to unlock it if you need to amend say in the case of changes in circumstances,

 

The Cashflow system is arguably not self help at all and one of its main supporters who use it with their clients I believe, the telephone agency NDL, do not even see people face to face or administer their own debt management plans they refer people on to CCCS & Payplan by the look of things

 

My understanding is that the Cashflow system is in serious demise, if not doomed, which is a shame if true, I attended a money advice meeting approx 6 months go where a cross section of approx 20 agency advisers were asked to vote if they actually used Cashflow and I kid you not there was not one, a number had definitely tried it including yours truly but none were using at the time.

 

There is a growing opinion across the free advice sector that the NEDCAB system is the only true self help tool in town with many other CAB branches and other agencies using or showing an real interest (I have seen information to back this up but for confidentiality reasons I cannot say more and that is the truth).

 

The CAB system will more or less replace Cashflow in my opinion, some say it already has, the idea is to give people that genuine choice and tool resource to truly help and manage their debts themselves backed up with the same rights and support as the provider managed ones.

 

The CAB system is also designed to support those under fire front line agencies, advisers and support groups to help the most vulnerable and basically has no profit or income motives this is why it is feared so much by both the profit and not for profit providers alike and lets not forget it did win the Institue of Money Advisers best inituative award and continues to be developed with the times, it is not a static basic debt management programme that cost a fortune.

 

The CAB system now has a sister budgeting tool that will eventually link over to the online DMP element with further developments to come, this has to help having a combined budgeting tool and online debt management plan under one roof so to speak and is what the powers that be and local authorities are looking for and should be particulary useful where the fast approaching Universal Credit is concerned.

 

I believe the more genuine help and support given to those with debt problems the better and that would include forums as these can be a fabulous means of support.

 

Genuine choice is the key, thats all I and others like me are saying

 

Genuine independent available advice, choice, help and support for all

 

Keep watching this space

 

My opinions again and all comments more than welcome

Edited November 30, 2012 by Wintry

[Guest]

hi wintry

fair points, again. paras 3, 4 for eg..

not forgetting that an individual consumer should in fact be treated fairly overall.

will have a good look at cashflow/nedcab just now.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Ford

[Wintry]

hi wintry

fair points, again. paras 3, 4 for eg..

not forgetting that an individual consumer should in fact be treated fairly overall.

will have a good look at cashflow/nedcab just now.

 

Hi Ford

 

Cheers for that

 

More developments soon is the word and maybe an eye brow raiser or two in the new year

 

The squeeze is on and the runners are picking up the pace (or is that panic)

 

PS - is it me or has the Stepchange charity link article disappeared?

 

http://www.cpb.co.uk/blogs/2012/11/c...as-stepchange/

 

Come on CCCS people tell us whats going on, where are ya? we are not going away yer know, oh... no... were not:)

[Guest]

........

PS - is it me or has the Stepchange charity link article disappeared?

 

[

 

looks like it

[Wintry]

looks like it

 

Hi

 

So it does

 

I cant think why:)

 

Anybody know?

 

Im OK though, I saved it

[Guest]

they must be watching?