holiday pay and self employed troubles

[cushty83]

1. hello can any1 help me i have been employed by a company since june 2011 however the only piece of paper i have signed is a p46 as i had lost my previous p45 i have signed no contracts or anything else to sate i was employed however for the first 3 months i was recieving pay slips and it is shown that i have been paying tax and national insurance this has now stopped and Everytime i ask for payslips my boss says he is changing accountants and sorting through paperwork this has been nearly 4 months now and a partner i work with has been told he is now self employed can they do the same to me

2. also back in sept we went on a two week holiday i gave the date too my boss 2 or 3 months before and they were accepted however when it come to my holiday he refused to pay stating he does not pay holiday anymore is this allowed

[Blueboy666]

Hello,

Firstly everyone in employment is entitled to annual holiday, it is the law, that is unless you are self employed.

The very fact that you have received wage slips for doing the very job you are currently doing is in itself a clear indication that you were not taken on as self employed. It is important to keep hold of these slips.

The worrying thing here for me initially is the fact that you havent yet completed 12 months service and therefore you dont have statutory employment protection rights (SEPR).

As for the contract of employment, contracts are made up of many different things, some can be very indepth and cover many policies, proceedures and the like, some are more vague. And then there are those that arent worth the paper they are printed on.

But what makes a contract of employment? Well in this case it would be important to establish firstly what it is you are employed as. Where was the job advertised, because part of a contract of employment can simply be an advert on a piece of card in a shop window, if it includes job description, hours, salary etc.

That would be a starting point. So if you could furnish us with this piece of information it would give us something to start with and we can then advise further.

It sounds to me that your employer is somewhat passing the employment buck, but then whats the point in having a buck if you cant pass it. If you get my point,

I am sure others will follow with more advice.

Best wishes.

[cushty83]

hi there thank you for replying, I moved to wales in may and got offered a job as a security officer through a friend of the family. I met up with my boss and arranged my introduction at the factory i currently work at for him and at that time we discussed employment. He asked me employed or self employed i asked to be employed as been self employed before and didnt work out. he was fine with that and said he offers both. then he told me i would work 3-4 x 12 hour shifts @ £7p/h a week on a rota system and that the weekly time sheets runs from fri-thus he then asked for my p45 and due to movin i didnt have it so he gave me a p46 to fill out and sign. At this time although only through verbal comunication i was employed working at a security officer doin 3 to 4 days a week i didnt really think about asking anything thing else like for a contract or the company holiday structure i was just pleased to get the job. So have i messed up!!!!

[Blueboy666]

No you havent messed up at all, you have done what many in your position would do, and that is grab the opportunity of work.

So can i confirm that you at some point received a regular weekly wage, and pay slips, and that tax was deducted at source by your employer, ?

[cushty83]

yes for the first 3 months of so i recieved payslips which had my tax code deductions and n.i deductions every friday or monday

wage was up or down a day or so as some weeks was doin 3 days some 4 days due to rota system

[cushty83]

i have kept all payslips a proof but how do i stand with the other 4 months

i have once again asked my boss for my payslips and hes still saying he's busy changing accountants and sorting paper out

[Gbarbm]

An employer has a statutory obligation to provide you with a payslip on or around the time you are paid. Is he still deducting the tax and NI?

[cushty83]

no he hasnt deducted anything for last few weeks but said he would sort this out once hes sorted things with the accountant

[Gbarbm]

Well that's dodgy for a start... Based on what you have said you are clearly an employee and he should be deducting tax and NI as long as your weekly wages are more than £100 pound a week. You could report him to the tax office who will carry out a compliance check....And he could end up having to pay a financial penalty. The tax office can also arrange for the NI to be posted to your NI account; this is important because if you have insufficient NI you could end up not receiving the right amount of contribution based benefits and state pension in the future.

Is he doing this to other workers as well?

You could ask him for the accountants telephone number and try and find out what's happening with your payslips and deductions.

[cushty83]

I'm not sure but I know 1 of the 3 guys who work for him got a call a couple of weeks ago to say that he's going to have to make him self employed as from that friday. worring thing i have is that i have no contract so could he of made me self employed with out my knoledge or would i have to sign anything.

thank you for your help will get onto the tax office tommorrow

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I agree with Gbarbm's comments, I also think your boss sounds as if he's trying to play the system. It's too long to copy and paste, but here's a link to directgov for you to work out if you're an employee or self-employed. If you're not sure once you look at it, let us know and we'll help.

 

But this information could be useful if you speak to the tax and NI people, which I think you should consider doing.

 

My best, HB

[Gbarbm]

Another thing you may find useful cushty is the employment status indicator (ESI) on HMRC website. it will provide an opinion on your employment status (employed or self employed) based on answers to questions such as; do you do the work at financial risk to yourself, can you be told when, where and how to do the work, do you have the right to substitution. Also, the categorisation of earners regulations 1978 (or cat regs) provides legislative references (sorry can't seem to post a link from iPod at the moment so you'll just need to do an Internet search)

[honeybee13]

Oops! I just realised I didn't put the link in yesterday. Here it is, hope it helps.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Understandingyourworkstatus/index.htm

 

My best, HB

[cushty83]

thank you, will take a look tonight

[cushty83]

hmrc site tells me im an employee but wether or not that will stand with my boss is another thing. shall be phoning the tax office tomorrow was ment to do today but things come up thank you for all your help

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I'm pleased you found some information. Hopefully, someone here will know how you can deal with your boss bypassing the rules.

 

My best, HB

[Gbarbm]

The HMRC opinion from the ESI is considered to be a valid confirmation of your employment status; make sure you print off a copy or alternatively make a note of the ESI number from the opinion and next time you visit the site, you can input the number and it will take you straight to it. It doesn't matter what the employer thinks. Employment status is based upon the type of work you do and the terms of your contract (wether implied, verbal or written) in reality, the only person who can rule on your status is the Secretary of State.